C919 launch rings alarm bells for Airbus, Boeing

[Falconless]

The ARJ21 was forced onto airlines, let’s see if they do the same with the 919, doubt it will get any success internationally as it’s very much a last gen plane in a world moving towards the next generation.

 

[hyperman]

given the product is better in quality, avionics and comfort

the "product"(wide body aircrafts) isn't even in test flights let alone mass production and you have declared it to be better quality and having better avionics? lol

 

[crankthatskunk]

the "product"(wide body aircrafts) isn't even in test flights let alone mass production and you have declared it to be better quality and having better avionics? lol

I think you need English classes desperately. Didn't know the meanings of "Given"!!

 

[KampfAlwin]

The ARJ21 was forced onto airlines, let’s see if they do the same with the 919, doubt it will get any success internationally as it’s very much a last gen plane in a world moving towards the next generation.

Can I have a source on the ARJ21 being forced upon them? C919 already have multiple orders placed. It's not about being the best at first, but by developing a domestic civilian aviation manufacturing industry.

 

[northeast]

not really much of a threat to Boeing or Airbus. no one is going to be dropping A320 or 737 orders for an unproven aircraft. These aircraft will most likely be only in china and maybe a few places where china has influence or places under sanctions who can't buy Boeing or Airbus. The Narrow Body aircraft market has a ton of market share with Ukrainian, Japanese, Brazilian and formerly canadian offerings. the real challenge is wide body aircraft which only Boeing and Airbus can make. and the CRAIC CR929 is a long way away from making its first flight, let alone mass production.

LOL,chinese market alone could support their survival for ever. Belt and road initiative could push it further to the devoloping world.

 

[nang2]

Screw the alarm. Let me know when its first commercial flight commences.

 

[Beast]

Screw the alarm. Let me know when its first commercial flight commences.

This November will delivered to China airline and most likely Dec 2021 or Jan 2022 will commerce operation.

not really much of a threat to Boeing or Airbus. no one is going to be dropping A320 or 737 orders for an unproven aircraft. These aircraft will most likely be only in china and maybe a few places where china has influence or places under sanctions who can't buy Boeing or Airbus. The Narrow Body aircraft market has a ton of market share with Ukrainian, Japanese, Brazilian and formerly canadian offerings. the real challenge is wide body aircraft which only Boeing and Airbus can make. and the CRAIC CR929 is a long way away from making its first flight, let alone mass production.

https://min.news/en/military/42909c896355f7ddbb37d3ef4266aab1.html

C919 orders exceeded 1,000, Boeing begged China for mercy overnight, Russia reminded: Don't forget Huawei

Boeing urges U.S. to separate China trade and human rights

Boeing Co urged the United States on Wednesday to keep human rights and other disputes separate from trade relations with Beijing, and warned European rival Airbus would gain if the U.S. planemaker were locked out of China.

www.reuters.com

Boeing urges U.S. to separate China trade and human rights

No doubt C919 will be a threat to Boeing for China market. Boeing has stated China is the most important market after US. Losing China market will be a big blow to Boeing survival. Never mind whether C919 can sell export outside China or not....

If an airplane sells to 12 overseas countries with each countries buying up only 2 plane each is more successful or 500 planes sell to one country only is better? Its the number of planes it sell that counts not how many countries you can penetrate or widely recognized.

Only total number of planes that sell matter!

Look at the white elephant A380 as example.

 

[nang2]

This November will delivered to China airline and most likely Dec 2021 or Jan 2022 will commerce operation.

https://min.news/en/military/42909c896355f7ddbb37d3ef4266aab1.html

C919 orders exceeded 1,000, Boeing begged China for mercy overnight, Russia reminded: Don't forget Huawei

Boeing urges U.S. to separate China trade and human rights

Boeing Co urged the United States on Wednesday to keep human rights and other disputes separate from trade relations with Beijing, and warned European rival Airbus would gain if the U.S. planemaker were locked out of China.

www.reuters.com

Boeing urges U.S. to separate China trade and human rights

Where did you get the date? the news piece you quoted doesn't have it at all.

Nevermind. No thanks to you. I googled it myself.

 

[Beast]

Where did you get the date? the news piece you quoted doesn't have it at all.

China Eastern Airlines to be first global customer for C919 - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

This is a very modest estimation. If American cut off Leap-1C engine. It can be replaced by WS-20 engine. WS-20 engine are equal to CFM-56 engine. Slight more fuel consuming but China state can give subsidizes for higher fuel cost. As long as more C919 is bought to replace Boeing Max. This kind of money is well worth spend.

Boeing shall invest in getting US politician in congress to replace those hawish neo-con. That is the only way to save Boeing market in China. First thing to do is kick out Biden. Sack those anti-China trash in Congress. If not, forget about saving Boeing.

 

[cdtiger]

The best time to start gaining experience is 20 years ago;
The 2nd best time is now;
The 3rd best time is 20 years later.
I guess China chose the 2nd best time and India will choose the 3rd best time.

 

[cloud4000]

China’s wide-body C919 aircraft

It's a narrow-body aircraft, comparable to 320 and 737.

Beijing has made no secret of its desire to break the western giants’ duopoly, helping smooth the C919’s development with up to US$72 billion in state-related support, according to estimates from US think-tank the Center for Strategic and International Studies

I assure you, this state support is going to be an issue going forward. It was a problem for Airbus and Boeing. This well could be a trade issue, but we shall see.

Final thought, don't expect overnight success. Usually, the first iteration of the aircraft does poorly, it's only during the second iteration the aircraft does well. See both 320 and 737.

 

[UKBengali]

China Eastern Airlines to be first global customer for C919 - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

This is a very modest estimation. If American cut off Leap-1C engine. It can be replaced by WS-20 engine. WS-20 engine are equal to CFM-56 engine. Slight more fuel consuming but China state can give subsidizes for higher fuel cost. As long as more C919 is bought to replace Boeing Max. This kind of money is well worth spend.

Boeing shall invest in getting US politician in congress to replace those hawish neo-con. That is the only way to save Boeing market in China. First thing to do is kick out Biden. Sack those anti-China trash in Congress. If not, forget about saving Boeing.

I do not think you can replace one engine with another just like that if the engines are not almost exactly similar. It would take many years of modifications of the plane's hardware/software and lots of testing before it is ready to be used in commercial operations.

This would also have the added problem of killing off the export potential to any country that can readily buy Western planes as fuel consumption would be too high - in commercial aviation even a few percent extra fuel consumption is the difference between surviving and going bust.

Yes, China can go it alone but it will take an expensive and bumpy 2-3 decades before it reaches parity with the West in commercial aviation.

 

[Indos]

This is a second attempt by Asian countries to compete big guys (Boeing/Airbus)

The first attempt is made by Indonesia in 1995 but due to Asian Financial Crisis we have to let go our dream at that time.


The IPTN N-2130 was a proposed 80-130 passenger commuter airliner of original design by IPTN (now Indonesian Aerospace). The N-2130 was estimated to cost two billion US dollars. The project was cancelled in 1998 due to the Asian financial crisis.

The aircraft has similarities with the Boeing 737 and Airbus A318.

IPTN N-2130 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not just a planning, the design has already been tested in win tunnel

History of Indonesian wind tunnel.

 

[Beast]

I do not think you can replace one engine with another just like that if the engines are not almost exactly similar. It would take many years of modifications of the plane's hardware/software and lots of testing before it is ready to be used in commercial operations.

This would also have the added problem of killing off the export potential to any country that can readily buy Western planes as fuel consumption would be too high - in commercial aviation even a few percent extra fuel consumption is the difference between surviving and going bust.

Yes, China can go it alone but it will take an expensive and bumpy 2-3 decades before it reaches parity with the West in commercial aviation.

WS-20 are based on CFM-56 core. Leap-1C is an advance version of CFM-56.

The totally different D30KP2 engine can be easily replaced by WS-20 engine for Y-20 as demonstrated by a Y-20 prototype flying the engine. When CHinese engineer design the C919, such consideration has long been taken in with swapping out engine with another. Of cos, testing and integration are still needed. But its not as difficult as you all think,

 

[Beidou2020]

C919 is there for China to be self-sufficient in commercial aircraft so the domestic market won’t be relying on Boeing and Airbus. C919 will be bought by all the major Chinese airlines and that means loss of market for Boeing and Airbus. Some US companies will still earn money by supplying the parts for the C919 at the start but as China gains more experience you will see Chinese companies supply all the parts including engine.