C for CPEC, Callousness and Controversy

[Orakzai]

So you are running this entire propaganda campaign because a PMLN lover posted a map somewhere on a forum, and you considered it the word of God????? Sums it ALL up . It sounds like "someone told IK there was rigging", but it can't be proven in the SC

I and a couple of others told you before, the map you posted, isn't real. The "Detail" you mentioned above, isn't real.

Like I said, let's resolve this. So, write to the Chinese embassy in Islamabad to get a REAL map as nothing I provide will satisfy the liars and the propagandist. Unlike paid propagandists, I am on no one's payroll. I write the truth without caring who's rear hearts reading it. I measure my life and others, through performance!! Vs. some on here including you, who judge others through how much bullshiit comes out of their mouth.

So write to the Chinese embassy and post the map when you get from them. Make sure it has a SEAL on it so no one can Photoshop it. How about that? You own it and we'll trust you to obtain the real document and present it.

In-fact, IK went to the Chinese embassy (without invitation, like he went to India to meet Modi, creating false importance of himself ). So post the true map with seals on it. And we'll just follow you.

I'll debate with you when you post the real map with TRUE details on it ( I am almost sure, like IK and his people's past, this here, won't bear any results either and its ALL talk, like hot gas coming out of the bottom of a balloon )!!

Typical darbari reply again. Do not deviate from the question i asked you. CAN YOU FIND A SINGLE DIFFERENCE IN BOTH THE INFO GRAPHS (except one has got the energy projects details)? and forget about who made the map can you dare to refuse or bet me that all these projects are not REAL PROJECTS?

The rigging have already shamed you guys enough mate. 3 out of 4 of those constituencies asked to be opened have already fallen and later took stay order from SC. now if you want to argue on rigging open a separate thread and we will talk there too, plus we all know how effective SC already is we have hundreds of clear cases SC abusing its powers.

Talking about GAS COMING OUT OF BOTTOM HAHAHA when dharna started did you see how your fat Leader was farting 126 days?? and then he had to beg Zardari to save him? the same Zardari who he was suppose to drag on the streets of lahore??

How about i give you an even a simpler formula ask your fat leader or his darbaris to release the official papers of the whole project it will end all the hoo haaa from other polititions straight away, its much more simpler. is it not? or hold on off course he wouldn't even let you near him coz you are not SHARIF. no matter how much hard you try to defend your master my friend he will never consider you more then a darbari hahaha.

KHAIR END OF ARGUMENT FROM ME. but do pay attention to my suggestion I HOPE HE LISTENS TO YOU and invite you for a nihari some day.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

PM forms committee for redressal of reservations on CPEC

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in a meeting with representatives of all political parties and provinces at the Prime Minister's House in Islamabad on January 15, 2016. PHOTO: PM HOUSE

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has formed a high-powered steering committee for periodical consultation with the provinces on matters related to the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC).

Besides constituting the 11-member committee, a number of important agreements were also made during a consultative meeting held in Islamabad under the chair of the premier to address the reservations of political parties regarding CPEC, a statement issued by the PM House said on Friday.

Representatives of all parties and provincial governments attended the meeting.

According to the statement, it was decided to carry out the construction of the western route of CPEC on priority.

PPP urges PM to address concerns on corridor

“Working on the principle of one corridor, multiple passages, the western alignment for CPEC will be constructed on priority, with a timeline of two years and six months, i.e. July 15, 2018,” the statement read.

All parties, the statement claimed, affirmed their support to the CPEC, agreeing that the new institutional framework will be able to better accommodate the regional concerns in future.

It was also decided that the western alignment for CPEC will be a four-lane expressway in the first phase, but with a provision for subsequent conversion into six-lane limited access motorway, for which land acquisition will be the responsibility of the Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (K-P) government.

China-Pakistan Economic Corridor: K-P digs deeper to alter course of outcome

The development comes a week after the Chinese government urged the government, its allies and opposition parties to resolve their differences on the route of the multibillion dollar project.

“China hopes the relevant parties in Pakistan could strengthen communication and coordination on the CPEC to create favourable conditions for the project,” the Chinese embassy in Islamabad said in a statement.

Earlier this month, the K-P government also threatened to take extreme steps if the federal government did not complete the western alignment of the project on a priority basis.

K-P censures change in route of China-Pakistan Economic Corridor

Pakistan and China had signed an agreement on April 20 last year to commence work on CPEC development projects worth over $46 billion, which comes to roughly 20 per cent of Pakistan’s annual GDP.

The corridor aims to connect Gwadar port in Balochistan to China’s Xinjiang region via a network of highways, railways and pipelines spread over 3,000km. Work on several sections has already started but the entire project is expected to take several years to complete.

Statement available with The Express Tribune

This will end the Controversy

 

[VCheng]

Dear Sir,

The dollars or yuans will start raining after a very long time provided we have good infrastructure to support it. Personally i believe this is a very long haul project. First the route has to be made operational, then we need to have electricity which for the time being we don't have for ourselves and it should be cheap & with that other supporting infrastructure should be there.

After that may be to cut further cost, industries start getting set up in Pakistan as till then local industry may get small portion of the trade.

Its a long term and very ambitious project and i believe only Chinese are capable to finish it.

CPEC will improve roads, rails and the power supply, that is for sure. But the economic bonanza is unlikely to the extent that is being claimed, given that the basics remain adverse given the business climate in Pakistan and fierce international competition.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Icarus it is indeed sad to see that you have rated the quoted positively considering this post doesn't even have even an iota of financial logic.

FYI investment in stock markets or HCL in this example are secondary investment. The company in these cases doesn't get a single pence out of this "investment" the gain/losses are shared by the traders who are often themselves foreign institutions . The money which comes in is easy money with no lock in period like in FDI.

All traders are looking to make a quick buck and capitalize on the low base. As soon as they deem that the stocks are over-valued they will bail out. Real investors in stock market who bring in certain stability are domestic retail investors.

We have all seen that BSE/NSE or for that matter Shanghai Stock Markets suffer from flight to quality in turbulent times. In such cases the losses are often born by small local investors. Companies as I have earlier stated remain divorced too an extent from both the secondary investments which constitute majority of stock market activity and pull outs.

The thing which could have been beneficial is not quick and easy money in stock exchanges but funding of start-ups, Foreign Direct Investment and greenfield investment. Thus Chinese investment is Gold in this regard and I would consider the 46 Billion out of 180 Billion as Kosher.

The only real investment happens in STOCK MARKET are in primary securities like IPO's or follow on offers which are once in a blue moon event for any company.

Anyway if you remember from our earlier conversations I have nothing against Pakistan - infact I whole heartedly support it's economic development and prosperity as that would give Pakistan a substantial stake in peace process b/w our countries. I just cant stand the blatant ignorance and smug arrogance on display. It is better to be realistic and plan for the future based on ground realities than indulging in wool-gathering.

@Syed.Ali.Haider @rainman @Nihonjin1051 your views on the veracity of my post as you guys have experience in financial markets as I assume.

Sir, I think the funniest part is that @Viper0011 is citing the abnormally high prices fo Pakistani securities as compared to "value stocks" (Google, Apple etc) as a positive reflection of the health of Pakistan's securities market but seems to entirely ignore the inherent relationship between risk and reward built into the securities market. The high security prices in Pakistan are a reflection of this higher inherent risk in Pakistani securities.

Blue chip companies/value stocks have tradtionally traded at lower P/E multiples than so-called "glamour" stocks (tech companies in the late 90s/earl 00s, electronics in the 60s/70s etc) but they have also, on average, far outperformed these glamour stocks. We all know what happened to many of these entities who were seeing ridiculous P/E multiples at the height of their respective bubbles. Only a fool would judge the quality and thus future performance of a security by its current price alone.

And I can tell how "experienced" you are. If all you think about the stocks as a "broker" trying to make a buck or two!! This is capital money coming to a business based on their performance, profit to share holders (called Share Holder's Equity). And when you do an IPO, your shares are sold, the company gets investments and the reason others want to put their hard earned money under a business in terms of stock, is they expect the business to use the stock money and grow and be MORE profitable. In turn, increasing stock values and distributions per stock in the future!! Google as an example was way below $ 100 not too many years ago. Its not over $ 700 per stock!!

I think @Spectre has addressed this quite clearly- after IPOs or subsequent issues (primary market) all shares will be traded in the secondary market ie between traders. The entity will not benefit if the price of its stock goes up in the secondary market- it will not be able to convert that into an increase in capital outlay.

So per the bullet points above in your post, these people, who invested hundreds of millions of dollars into Pakistani securities, decided to pay three to five times the money to LOSE money....and while they can otherwise pay to buy Google, Apple, GE and other securities much cheaper, and all inside US and more secure apparently????

Again, you are being completly ignorant of financial history. There is an inherent relationship between risk and return, there is a reason value stocks like Apple, Google, GE etc trade at lower prices to Pakistani securities. It is NOT because the Pakistani securities are considered more successful or expected to deliver greater returns in the future. In 1967 ATO inc traded at high $73 with a P/E multiple of 51, in 1969 it traded at low of $10 with a P/E multiple of 13- security prices do NOT tell you the full picture of the future prospects of a security.

@Spectre do you think Warren Buffett would be agreeing with our friend?

 

[Spectre]

Sir, I think the funniest part is that @Viper0011 is citing the abnormally high prices fo Pakistani securities as compared to "value stocks" (Google, Apple etc) as a positive reflection of the health of Pakistan's securities market but seems to entirely ignore the inherent relationship between risk and reward built into the securities market. The high security prices in Pakistan are a reflection of this higher inherent risk in Pakistani securities.

Blue chip companies/value stocks have tradtionally traded at lower P/E multiples than so-called "glamour" stocks (tech companies in the late 90s/earl 00s, electronics in the 60s/70s etc) but they have also, on average, far outperformed these glamour stocks. We all know what happened to many of these entities who were seeing ridiculous P/E multiples at the height of their respective bubbles. Only a fool would judge the quality and thus future performance of a security by its current price alone.


I think @Spectre has addressed this quite clearly- after IPOs or subsequent issues (primary market) all shares will be traded in the secondary market ie between traders. The entity will not benefit if the price of its stock goes up in the secondary market- it will not be able to convert that into an increase in capital outlay.


Again, you are being completly ignorant of financial history. There is an inherent relationship between risk and return, there is a reason value stocks like Apple, Google, GE etc trade at lower prices to Pakistani securities. It is NOT because the Pakistani securities are considered more successful or expected to deliver greater returns in the future. In 1967 ATO inc traded at high $73 with a P/E multiple of 51, in 1969 it traded at low of $10 with a P/E multiple of 13- security prices do NOT tell you the full picture of the future prospects of a security.

@Spectre do you think Warren Buffett would be agreeing with our friend?

Let it go, he is an old troll. I shouldn't have got into that meaningless discussion with him but then I did - my fault that I wasted my time and energy.

Regards

 

[Viper0011.]

Sir, I think the funniest part is that @Viper0011 is citing the abnormally high prices fo Pakistani securities as compared to "value stocks" (Google, Apple etc) as a positive reflection of the health of Pakistan's securities market but seems to entirely ignore the inherent relationship between risk and reward built into the securities market. The high security prices in Pakistan are a reflection of this higher inherent risk in Pakistani securities.

Again, you are being completly ignorant of financial history. There is an inherent relationship between risk and return, there is a reason value stocks like Apple, Google, GE etc trade at lower prices to Pakistani securities. It is NOT because the Pakistani securities are considered more successful or expected to deliver greater returns in the future. In 1967 ATO inc traded at high $73 with a P/E multiple of 51, in 1969 it traded at low of $10 with a P/E multiple of 13- security prices do NOT tell you the full picture of the future prospects of a security.

@Spectre do you think Warren Buffett would be agreeing with our friend?

....either one of you ever did stock evaluations or economic planning or IPO's???? Obviously, just from the post, the answer is a HELL NO, but I thought I'd repeat it to double check, may be somewhere a few thousands were invested to "gain" experience from Google articles!! Ever worked as a Chief Investment Office or headed an organization focused on Securities, Hedge Funding, Real State Infrastructure development???? The answer is HELL NO again!!

SO let me get it right. Per your post, when people can make great returns from stable, globally well known and STABLE organizations like Apple, JP Morgan, Citi, Google......from $ 45 - 700 per security....they'd INSTEAD pick high risk securities like the Pakistani ETF's, for EACH of which, they would have to pay double from the above list, and in some cases 4, 5 times the money for each security???

So you are saying that a guy who has $ 20K in savings, can buy a TOTAL of 6 individual units of the top end Pakistani ETF (selling over $ 2900.00 per one unit), by spending $ 20,000 dollars (with VERY higher risk as per your post).....

OR, he could go and buy, approximately 33 shares of Google, or 357 stocks of JP Morgan, or 444 stocks of Citi bank, or 1250 stocks of Bank of America (slated to go way up if the market can stabilize and then give a nice quarter or two). All the above are much more stable and known American stocks with tremendous return capability!!!! Its time I do this to your posts and this is to your buddy's post !!!!! If the Text books actually ran the Market, ALL PhD and Masters in Economics, would all be stock brokers, or CIO (Chief Investments Officer, not the CIO which the Indian community loves, the Information Officer !!

By the way, in real life, PE is worth not even two shiits. People like Mr. Cramer uses these for his shows. Take a look at the market and see where the securities are for weeks now, with PE of 1 or in the "exceptional" range. When people were jumping with "Bullish" markets in early 2015....we were predicting "the Bear is here, save yourself"!!

Also, respectful Mr. Buffet would ABSOLUTELY agree with me. He is my indirect teacher / mentor. I follow every single principle the guy's ever exercised. THE MOST critical of Mr. Buffet is to never look at the PE .

You go sell him something at a billion dollar profit today, if he sees no intrinsic value, he won't even care for the billion and a week or a few months after, you'll realize what the hell he was thinking. On the other hand, he'll buy anything or invest into anything that has some intrinsic value. When he invested into Geico insurance, people were like, WTF ?

And when he opened up Berkshire Hathaway Real Estate group and started to buy all major call dealerships, the same critics were like "holly shiit", we get it now, Goddamn, this guy is a genius!!! . Thanks for adding his name to the post as to show me "some" credentials. Its always entertaining dealing with our egoistic Indian members who throw names and titles to gain credentials

 

[Salik]

After Careful calculations and keeping in mind the importance of CPEC for all the people of Pakistani , the CPEC route is redefined.

View attachment 287020

This map is highly appreciated. Why, Jamshed Dasti has announced sit ins against CPEC neglecting Saraiki areas.

I've solution for these politicians. For the time being announce CPEC is being cancelled, it'll give them shock of 440 VOLTS. It is enough for a shut up call.