What's new

BYD: Road to Dominance of Electric Vehicle/Transport

I don't think the BYD bus can sell very well in the US. Because they have to face to face with the old name like New Flyer or Volvo backed Nova.

To be precise, BYD K9 would need to compete with this

View attachment 304046

New Flyer Xcelsior® XE40 Battery-Electric Bus

This bus is matching every aspect BYD K9 offered, but also something K9 cannot offer. Such as high Drive Train and power retention system that would recharge the battery while decelerate, also scalable battery pack. Which means that bus can save electricity while idle.

Since this bus uses the same chassis with other New Flyer Buses (nominally XDE-40), they can be maintained with ease in North America without much upgrade to the existing depot (Which have serve over 30,000 New Flyer buses in both US and Canada) and also, this bus is comparable in price range with BYD K9, range from $500,000 to $750,000.

So, I don't know how much BYD can eat up NFI Market in North America, big name such as LA MTA and DC Metro were already put in line to order the XE40, both of which currently operate XDE-40, and their order is usually in hundreds.
BYD Auto design & building the chassis, fuel engines, electro-motor, carframe, independent suspension, Li-Fe battery pack, gearbox, control system, drive&monitor software etc by herself in China different industry zones ... as usually as most 'Made in China' BYD also can fine the balance between good quality and cheap price, due to the cost of 'Made in China' ! Most core components design & built in China, shipped to U.S and assembly in local U.S factory, still has many benefits. :-)

Im not mean BYD Auto is the best, but we r on the right way and moving forward to the good ! BYD's K9 really sold well to many foreign customers inclulding in Europe and Japan. And BYD Auto is the few China automobile manufacturer which can design domestic fuel engine ad electro-motor in China, usually the FIRST can win BIG MONEY in the future ! :enjoy:

If i was BOSS Wang of BYD Auto, maybe we can decide to buy the New Flyer (ever close to bankrupt few year ago), as a new North America manufacture base to build BYD buses together selling to U.S market. Well, it will ...!:D

Twenty years ago 'Made in China' cloth from China into West market, Ten years ago 'Made in China' computers, cellphones, LCD TVs into West market ... so be it pls trust me, in next twenty years ur kids will be driving 'Made in China' cars !!! (My family drivig the China car :-)
3.jpg
1.jpg
4.jpg
5.jpg
6.jpg
7.jpg
8.jpg
 
Last edited:
.
BYD Auto design & building the chassis, fuel engines, electro-motor, carframe, independent suspension, Li-Fe battery pack, gearbox, control system, drive&monitor software etc by herself in China different industry zones ... as usually as most 'Made in China' BYD also can fine the balance between good quality and cheap price, due to the cost of 'Made in China' ! Most core components design & built in China, shipped to U.S and assembly in local U.S factory, still has many benefits. :-)

It cannot be "Made in China" if you want to sell it to US Government (All Transit Authority are Governmental organisation), all State and Federal Level purchase are require to follow an Made in America rules. Which is why this is going to hurt BYD establishment in the US.

And if I remember correctly, NFI was never in serious financial trouble in the recent years, maybe you are thinking of North American Bus Industries, which was acquired by NFI in 2013...
 
Last edited:
.
It cannot be "Made in China" if you want to sell it to US Government, all State and Federal Level purchase are require to follow an Made in America rules. Which is why this is going to hurt BYD establishment in the US.
HEHE ... "Made in U.S" ??? Like the mark under the IPhone cover "Designed in California, Assembled in China (Foxconn)" !

Ironically, i ever worked in FOXCONN for 3x years now in BYD Auto ... after these years experience this time i have the different feeling ! Something is changing ... i see we r growing up.:-)
 
.
HEHE ... "Made in U.S" ??? Like the mark under the IPhone cover "Designed in California, Assembled in China (Foxconn)" !

Ironically, i ever worked in FOXCONN for 3x years now in BYD Auto ... after these years experience this time i have the different feeling ! Something is changing ... i see we r growing up.:-)

Dude, I am talking about Governmental Contract, buying Buses for State Government is like buying Tanks for the Army. We aren't talking about individual purchase. I don't think the US Government will issue tender to acquire IPhone for it State and Federal Employee. If they do, it would be the biggest scoop for GAO in years.

Government buying Buses is not the same as We go and buy IPhone. You cannot compare the two and if and when the Government have issue a tender for IPhone in the future (for whatever reason), they will need to shift the IPhone production line back to US if this is the case.
 
.
Dude, I am talking about Governmental Contract, buying Buses for State Government is like buying Tanks for the Army. We aren't talking about individual purchase. I don't think the US Government will issue tender to acquire IPhone for it State and Federal Employee. If they do, it would be the biggest scoop for GAO in years.

Government buying Buses is not the same as We go and buy IPhone. You cannot compare the two and if and when the Government have issue a tender for IPhone in the future (for whatever reason), they will need to shift the IPhone production line back to US if this is the case.
I don't see the reason why state governments need refuse investments from BYD Auto, they will welcome BYD to set factory and hire more local workers ... there will building BYD buses into U.S market like the Lancaster city ... state government need money and improve employment rate they will need BYD and help BYD. And as u knew Warren Buffett is the big shareholder of BYD Auto since 2010, there'r other powerful businessmen with BYD together to change these stupid "Made in U.S" rules with MONEY trade to become "Designed in China, Made in U.S" ... im sure it will work ! :partay: Anyway next time, when u see the BYD running on roads of American cities, u can find the answer by urself.



About IPhones, Apple never move the produce lines from FOXCONN to U.S ... coz:
1. Cheaper cost in China than in America
2. Whole supply-chain by China's suppliers, not from America.
3. IPhones sold in China more than in America market.
womaniphone6_3159745b.jpg


The Apple never willing to lose the China market, Apple need Chinese customers more !
iPhone sales in China top US
Apple has sold more iPhones in China than in the US - Telegraph
Apple Likely Sold More iPhones in China Than in the U.S
 
Last edited:
.
Build Your Driving Dream

21161089540_600x370.jpg

8eedb869fd33987d4991b435c3b5a09c420e19cd.jpg






Just 40,000 RMB ( 7,000 USD) cost latest BYD's F3 car, :D next ten years “Made in China” is the Car !
11.jpg

22.jpg

33.jpg

44.jpg

55.jpg
 
.
I don't see the reason why state governments need refuse investments from BYD Auto, they will welcome BYD to set factory and hire more local workers ... there will building BYD buses into U.S market like the Lancaster city ... state government need money and improve employment rate they will need BYD and help BYD. And as u knew Warren Buffett is the big shareholder of BYD Auto since 2010, there'r other powerful businessmen with BYD together to change these stupid "Made in U.S" rules with MONEY trade to become "Designed in China, Made in U.S" ... im sure it will work ! :partay: Anyway next time, when u see the BYD running on roads of American cities, u can find the answer by urself.



About IPhones, Apple never move the produce lines from FOXCONN to U.S ... coz:
1. Cheaper cost in China than in America
2. Whole supply-chain by China's suppliers, not from America.
3. IPhones sold in China more than in America market.
womaniphone6_3159745b.jpg


The Apple never willing to lose the China market, Apple need Chinese customers more !
iPhone sales in China top US
Apple has sold more iPhones in China than in the US - Telegraph
Apple Likely Sold More iPhones in China Than in the U.S

Umm, you don't get it....

It's not about whether or not State Government allow BYD or Chinese Investment, it is about competiveness. The edge BYD offer is that they are cheaper because they were built in China, you cannot do that if you were bidding for a Government Contract, because of the anti-racketeering law. So basically the only edge BYD have is lost. Then you are to compete with other US manufacturer blow by blow. And as I pointed out, the competition does not look good for BYD as XE40 is a bit more advance than K9 but with the same price tag.

But in the end, we need to look at what BYD can offer compare with what other can offer, just that we know the "Made In China" edge is now gone so whatever left with K9 have to be better than the next competitor to be chosen.

It have nothing to do with the market in China, it have everything to do with the Federal Law. If you bid for a US governmental contract, your item needed to be made in America.

As I said, if Apple want to bid a government contract on iPhone or iPad, then yes, they will need to move the production line back to US because of the anti-racketeering law. Which means you cannot use unfair advantage to recover profits. Made in somewhere else and enjoy a cheaper labour price is an unfair advantage. It also hurt local business.
 
.
Build Your Driving Dream

View attachment 304075
View attachment 304076





Just 40,000 RMB ( 7,000 USD) cost latest BYD's F3 car, :D next ten years “Made in China” is the Car !
View attachment 304077
View attachment 304078
View attachment 304079
View attachment 304080
View attachment 304081

Looks like you have a competitor :D


Yutong H8 Plug-in Hybrid Bus Makes a High-profile Debut
2016-05-06

On April 22, when the whole world was observing the 47th Earth Day, Yutong H8 plug-in hybrid city bus, which is equipped with ReCtrl 3.0, made a high-profile debut in Zhengzhou, Henan Province. Nearly 400 people, including representatives from a number of key public transport companies and journalists from all across China attended the press conference held by Yutong. Aiming to become the most suitable plug-in hybrid city buses for medium-sized cities, Yutong H8 immediately aroused keen interest among all people attending the conference. Also, Yutong held signing ceremonies with a number of bus operators for supplying H8 city buses to them. Taizhou Public Transport Co., Ltd. decided on the scene to make its purchase of the vehicle.


20160506040946138.jpg

Yutong Held a Press Conference for H8 Plug-in Hybrid City Bus and ReCtrl 3.0

According to Zhou Bao, Product Manager of Yutong, the bus maker has further upgraded its independently developed ReCtrl system, a key technology in new energy vehicle industry. In response to a host of common concerns of customers, ReCtrl 3.0 system has made some new breakthroughs on the basis of its predecessors, helping H8 plug-in hybrid city bus further improve its safety standards and energy efficiency.

The safety of new energy buses has been the top concern of all auto makers. Many customers also complain that there is no standardized evaluation method while making their purchases. Fortunately, in January this year, China’s National Electric Bus Electric Control and Safety Engineering Center released a list of requirements on new energy bus 3S safety technology. According to the list, there are specific technical standards for the fire-proof, water-proof, and electricity-proof measures of all new energy buses. H8 plug-in hybrid city bus, equipped with ReCtrl 3.0 system, has fully met the 3S Safety Technology requirements. Moreover, it has reached IP67 safety standards, removing all worries that customers usually have.


20160506041036250.jpg

Yutong H8 Plug-in Hybrid City Bus (LNG Version)


With the diminishing subsidies from the governments, new energy buses must cut their purchasing costs and operating costs so as to compete with fossil-fueled vehicles. By cutting its body weight, equipping itself with highly efficient electric drive system, highly reliable braking system, and intelligence control system, and other state-of-art technologies, H8 achieves an envious level of economy and is able to cut energy consumption by over 42%. Moreover, by optimizing its interior space, H8 is capable of loading more passengers. Take the 8.5-meter H8 city bus for example, it can take 13-18 more passengers compared with its counterparts. The 8.2-meter H8 city bus also can hold 4-8 more passengers than its counterparts. During its whole lifecycle, H8 city bus requires far less operating costs than its counterparts and is superior to fossil-fueled vehicles, creating more added values for its operators.


20160506041117136.jpg

Yutong H8 Plug-in Hybrid City Bus boasts impressive performance in climbing slopes


The H8 hybrid city bus with ReCtrl 3.0 system has made new breakthroughs in its driveline. Moreover, with a newly invented integral controller, the bus cuts high-voltage nodes by 55% and reduces their volume by 63%. Thanks to all these improvement, the vehicle achieves high reliability and stable performances.

In the medium-sized and small cities in which the road conditions vary dramatically, new energy buses have to overcome a number of challenges. The addition of planetary transmission system on H8 hybrid city bus with ReCtrl 3.0 system has made the vehicle more powerful. Being able to climb a slope with a maximum angle of 15 degree, H8 is more readily adaptable to a much wider market.

As the leader in China’s bus industry, Yutong has been working relentlessly to fulfill its mission in energy conservation and emission reduction. In November, 2013, Yutong officially revealed its first generation of ReCtrl system. With the new system, Yutong new energy buses can cut fuel consumption by over 30% and reduce PM emission by over 90%.

Along with the debut of H8, Yutong also rolls out a package of transportation solutions for its customers, who can always enjoy tailor-made services from vehicle selection, purchases, operation to maintenance. In addition, it provides recharging post construction service, more flexible financial solutions, and more sound after-sales services. Customers also have the opportunity to participate in the training courses of New Energy Buses 3S Safety Technology Requirements and Safety Management System provided by Yutong.

“Yutong buses have long earned our trust. We have been cooperating with Yutong for over five years. Currently, Yutong buses account for over 30% of our bus fleet. On the debut of H8, we immediately decide to purchase 28 units as we have been very much impressed by its energy efficiency. We firmly believe that Yutong H8 plug-in hybrid city buses will help us become a more socially responsible enterprise. Not only that, they will bring us high economic returns”, says Cha Hongkui, deputy general manager of Taizhou Public Transport Co., Ltd.
 
.
If I remember correctly, that was a BYD test bus in New York during the 2014 trial.

There are currently no BYD bus in MTA New York Service.

I don't think the BYD bus can sell very well in the US.

Examples of BYD electric buses sales across US:
  • 800 electric buses sales to Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT)
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...cas-largest-electric-bus-order-300138125.html

  • 85 electric buses sales to California
http://www.avta.com/index.aspx?page=482


The two orders have been even larger than the expected US market size by 2020!! If this is not "sell very well", then what is "sell very well"?

According to Frost & Sullivan, the expected 2020 market size of the electric buses in North America is about 600 units/year. (2400 x 24%)
1234.jpg
 
.
Examples of BYD electric buses sales across US:
  • 800 electric buses sales to Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT)
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...cas-largest-electric-bus-order-300138125.html

  • 85 electric buses sales to California
http://www.avta.com/index.aspx?page=482


The two orders have been even larger than the expected US market size by 2020!! If this is not "sell very well", then what is "sell very well"?

According to Frost & Sullivan, the expected 2020 market size of the electric buses in North America is about 600 units/year. (2400 x 24%)
View attachment 304263

The Order for Washington DOT is for UP TO 800 buses, it's an option, not an exact order.

Most US Transport department make options order, much like buying fighter jet. They usually just get a few order in, then utilities the option like this one

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.co...der-from-san-francisco-transit-agency-164567/

The order is for 98 options, SFTA ordered 44 and have the option to order 54 more.

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.co...der-from-san-francisco-transit-agency-164567/

or this from LATA, an 350 order from a 550 options

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.co...-350-bus-order-from-los-angeles-metro-162372/

Also, 800 some order for a year is not that great, I don't know where your figure from (of 600 order a year maybe just ev??) but according to New Flyer, they have already delivered 829 unit to US and Canadian Customer. And the Q1 Total Order is 3968

http://www.4-traders.com/NEW-FLYER-...rst-Quarter-2016-Orders-and-Backlog-22179659/

The Company delivered 829 equivalent units ("EUs") in Q1 2016, an increase of 257 EUs compared to 572 EUs in the first fiscal quarter ended March 29, 2015 ("Q1 2015"). Work-in-process ("WIP") at April 3, 2016 was 499 EUs, an increase of 70 EUs from the previous quarter.



So, if selling 800 some order in a whole year a good, then what would you call New Flyer's almost 4,000 order in just 3 months? And then you still have 3 other big bus company (Nova, NABI and Blue Bird) make up some 20,000 order a year, so if you look at this, 800 order a year is really not that much.

as I said, US market does not really run on e-bus, e-bus market is quite small, I don't think most other country do, and if you think BYD can survive in the US with just a few hundred E-bus order, then well, I can only say you are an optimist. I dearly think building 800 or so buses a year would not survive in US, again, you are free to think otherwise
 
Last edited:
.
Examples of BYD electric buses sales across US:
  • 800 electric buses sales to Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT)
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...cas-largest-electric-bus-order-300138125.html

  • 85 electric buses sales to California
http://www.avta.com/index.aspx?page=482


The two orders have been even larger than the expected US market size by 2020!! If this is not "sell very well", then what is "sell very well"?

According to Frost & Sullivan, the expected 2020 market size of the electric buses in North America is about 600 units/year. (2400 x 24%)
View attachment 304263
Gosh, China accounts for 50% of global share.
The market is still quite empty, at least in my city, 10 million people, several hundred lines every 2-15 minutes. Very few electric buses here, less than 10%!
We call buy hundreds of electric buses for Wuhan!
1.jpg
2.jpg
 
.
Gosh, China accounts for 50% of global share.
The market is still quite empty, at least in my city, 10 million people, several hundred lines every 2-15 minutes. Very few electric buses here, less than 10%!
We call buy hundreds of electric buses for Wuhan!
View attachment 304274 View attachment 304273

That's because electric bus only good for short haul route, even with WAVE Wireless recharge, you cannot run them continuously over a long period of time, and that means it will eat up your operation cost.
 
.
President of Uruguay Attends Launch of Yet Another BYD Pure Electric Urban Mobility Solution
2016-05-08

On May 5, 2016, a launch ceremony organized by the Presidential Office and the Ministries of Energy and Transport was held to announce the launch of the city’s first vehicle of its BYD pure electric bus fleet.

Firm on its intent to boost sustainable development in South America and slash its carbon footprint, Uruguay takes a step further in its electrified public transportation platform in the capital, Montevideo. Following the launch of a pure electric taxi fleet – produced by green tech giant BYD Company Ltd. – in the second half of 2015; on May 5, 2016, a launch ceremony organized by the Presidential Office and the Ministries of Energy and Transport was held to announce the launch of the city’s first vehicle of its BYD pure electric bus fleet.

Attending the ceremony were the President of Uruguay, Tabaré Vázquez, the Minister of Industry, Energy and Mining Carolina Cosse, and the Mayor of Montevideo Daniel Martinez; along with the President of UTE (Uruguay’s National Administration of Power Plants and Electrical Transmissions) Gonzalo Casaravilla, and the President of CUTCSA (the largest bus operator in Uruguay) Juan A. Salgado. The Chairman and President of BYD Co., Ltd., Mr. Chuanfu Wang, President of BYD Motors Inc., Ms. Stella Li, and Vice-President of BYD America, Mr. Fred Ni, made the formal delivery of the vehicle. Prior to the official ceremony, the President, Ministers and dignitaries went on a ride along the streets of the capital aboard the BYD K9 electric bus to try its quality, performance and comfort.


20160508114605129.jpg

President Tabaré Vázquez (second from right) was thrilled with the BYD electric bus’s comfort and performance

After the successful launch of a BYD pure electric taxi fleet in Montevideo in August last year, the Administration moved forward with its bold transport electrification initiatives, now going for mass transportation with the addition of transit buses to the mix. This is the first pure electric bus to officially operate in the country, after a successful trial period starting in 2013, whose debut had also had the attendance of the Country’s President at the time, the acclaimed José Alberto Mujica. The vehicle launched at the ceremony was purchased by CTS – BYD’s local distributor – and leased to CUTCSA (Uruguay’s largest collective transportation company), which will run the operation in the capital for five years, and depending on the vehicle's performance, another 20 to 30 units will be ordered within the next 6 months. Additionally to the obvious environmental benefits of zero emission vehicles, passengers and will enjoy increased comfort on a slient ride, and operators will benefit from substantial cuts in fuel and maintenance costs. The BYD K9 is a 12-meter urban transit bus with a driving range of 250km on a single charge, more than enough to cover any of Montevideo's inner city routes. Charging takes place during the night-at off-peak hours-when costs and demand on the power grid are lower.

Uruguay’s move towards transport electrification is a natural result of its bold policies to switch from fossil fuels to renewable energy. In less than 10 years the country has managed to nearly become carbon neutral: according to Ramón Méndez – the country’s head of climate change policy – renewables now provide nearly 95% of the country’s electricity. The choice of BYD to supply electrified transportation solutions to integrate such breakthrough lies in the company’s technological advancement, expertise, market maturity and the presence of its zero emission transportation solutions running in over 200 urban centers worldwide.
 
.
That's because electric bus only good for short haul route, even with WAVE Wireless recharge, you cannot run them continuously over a long period of time, and that means it will eat up your operation cost.

yes, that's why China also has world's longest network of High speed rails! So short haul route, go with metros or electric buses; long haul, high speed rails are right there!
 
.
That's because electric bus only good for short haul route, even with WAVE Wireless recharge, you cannot run them continuously over a long period of time, and that means it will eat up your operation cost.

The question: why BYD didn't focus on the giant market in China but sell a few in US ? as we read Andrew Jin post?
This platform is quite new and unproven to even new market like China.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom