Buying new JF17 engine from Russia and replacing older F16 ?

[HAIDER]

Why Pakistan air force don't use the jf-17 in bombing instead of the f-16 this way they save the viper for the real threat?.

F16 is fully equipped with precision strike. Best plane for surgical strike and avoid collateral damage. Plus off the record , PAF use NATO datalink. Another reality which Pakistani member hardly knows, F16 is best choice in striking target in high mountain range....and guess , who is the target.
How much our members hate F16, but there is no alternate of F16 in the world yet. Only F35 is the replacement of F16,

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Why Pakistan air force don't use the jf-17 in bombing instead of the f-16 this way they save the viper for the real threat?.

do note that the features PAF is looking for are not even avaiable in the current F-16 blocks but only in the handful block 52s.

PAF is already using JF-17s extensivly doing that. but the F-16 block 52 are only used on very specialised &precise missions which cant be accomplished by other jets.

JF-17s are on the other hand are carrying out the general workload of the air strikes and regularly flying off to the tribal areas. people who live in the vicinity of the airbases .. have seen them flying. they have been even seen in the programs by Pakistan TV's by people like Wajahat khan etc.

in the future blocks JF-17s might cover for all weather precise ground strikes that only F-16 block 52s offer.

 

[Malik Alashter]

F16 is fully equipped with precision strike. Best plane for surgical strike and avoid collateral damage. Plus off the record , PAF use NATO datalink.

That means jf-17 not good in precision strike?.

do note that the features PAF is looking for are not even avaiable in the current F-16 blocks but only in the handful block 52s.

PAF is already using JF-17s extensivly doing that. but the F-16 block 52 are only used on very specialised &precise missions which cant be accomplished by other jets.

JF-17s are on the other hand are carrying out the general workload of the air strikes and regularly flying off to the tribal areas. people who live in the vicinity of the airbases .. have seen them flying. they have been even seen in the programs by Pakistan TV's by people like Wajahat khan etc.

in the future blocks JF-17s might cover for all weather precise ground strikes that only F-16 block 52s offer.

Nothing beat the viper they call it viper for a reason!!!.

I think the block 52 and up match to the european delta fighters what you think?.

 

[HAIDER]

That means jf-17 not good in precision strike?.


Nothing beat the viper they call it viper for a reason!!!.

I think the block 52 and up match to the european delta fighters what you think?.

PAF using JF17 to strike terrorist , but honestly speaking , don 't compare JF17 with F16.JF17 is performing very well, but let see what's come up after new upgrades.

 

[Shabi1]

will china be happy if Pakistan bypasses them.for Russian it makes sence to supply the engines directly to pakistan.
i think the reason the Pakistanies want to get the jets from Russia directly is becaue of some maintenance issues with the engine.

Pakistan wants to develop extensive RD-93 overhaul and rebuild facilities along with parts manufacture locally. For this purpose it is dealing with Russia directly.


Also PAF is using all types of assets against terrorists,Mirages, JF-17s and F-16s. It highlights the F-16 more so that it is visibly being used and can justify more orders. Also JDAMs and aircraft operations aren't cheap, and its better to get them subsidized via US military assistance.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Engine manufacturing and overhaul would be a great addition to KAMRA's capability if it materializes
if such a project is indeed negotiated it would be great for the Thunder 17 program.

Block2 / Block 3 arrival will certain enhance the plane to new level

Why is the Chinese power plant stuck ? Year or 2 ago they stated that the power plant was being tested on a live model etc surprised to not see it released for JF17 thunder program.

WS-13 Taishan
The WS-13 Taishan was certified in 2007 and serial production began in 2009. The 18 March 2010 edition of the HKB report stated that a FC-1 equipped with the WS-13 completed its first successful runway taxi test.

Officials at the Farnborough International Airshow in August 2010 stated that a JF-17 development aircraft is flying with a Chinese engine, which is most likely to be the WS-13.

In November 2012, Aviation Week reported that a JF-17 Thunder was flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine.

According to Janes Weekly. New JF-17 fighters are now flying with WS-13 engine and even attended the prestigious Paris air show.

Paris Show : Not So Camera Shy Thunder

Reference:
Paris Air Show 2015: JF-17 fighter flying with indigenous Chinese turbofan | IHS Jane's 360

• Chinese officials at the Paris Air Show have said flight-testing of a new indigenous engine for the JF-17 Thunder is under way
• Officials also confirmed that the Sino-Pakistani-developed aircraft had achieved its first international sale, although they did not disclose the customer

A senior Chinese aviation official has revealed that the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter co-developed with Pakistan has been test-flown with a new Chinese medium-thrust turbofan engine.

Li Yuhai, an executive vice president with the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC), told IHS Jane's at the Paris Airshow that a new Chinese turbofan for the J-17 has been "under testing," has completed "lab tests", and that "flight testing is in progress". He also said that the new engine would have a thrust slightly greater than the 8.7-ton thrust of the JF-17's current Klimov RD-93 turbofan.


In its first appearance at Paris, the JF-17 is also accompanied by two new weapon options. One is the C-705KD missile, an IIR/TV-guided ground-attack version of the 140-170 km-range C-705 that was revealed at the 2012 Zhuhai airshow. A Pakistani source said up to four C-705KDs could be carried by the JF-17.

The second new weapon displayed with the JF-17 for the first time is the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) CM-102 anti-radiation missile. Revealed at the 2014 Zhuhai show, it has an advertised range of 100 km. A Pakistani source noted that other versions could have 50% to 70% further range.

 

[Kompromat]

They could indicate a renewed interest to place an order of extra 100 JF-17s taking the total number to 250. They by no means will replace F-16s, the replacement will be FC-31 which also uses the same class of engines.

 

[HAIDER]

Engine manufacturing and overhaul would be a great addition to KAMRA's capability if it materializes
if such a project is indeed negotiated it would be great for the Thunder 17 program.

Block2 / Block 3 arrival will certain enhance the plane to new level

Why is the Chinese power plant stuck ? Year or 2 ago they stated that the power plant was being tested on a live model etc surprised to not see it released for JF17 thunder program.

WS-13 Taishan
The WS-13 Taishan was certified in 2007 and serial production began in 2009. The 18 March 2010 edition of the HKB report stated that a FC-1 equipped with the WS-13 completed its first successful runway taxi test.

Officials at the Farnborough International Airshow in August 2010 stated that a JF-17 development aircraft is flying with a Chinese engine, which is most likely to be the WS-13.

In November 2012, Aviation Week reported that a JF-17 Thunder was flying in China with the Guizhou WS-13 engine.

According to Janes Weekly. New JF-17 fighters are now flying with WS-13 engine and even attended the prestigious Paris air show.

Paris Show : Not So Camera Shy Thunder

Reference:
Paris Air Show 2015: JF-17 fighter flying with indigenous Chinese turbofan | IHS Jane's 360

• Chinese officials at the Paris Air Show have said flight-testing of a new indigenous engine for the JF-17 Thunder is under way
• Officials also confirmed that the Sino-Pakistani-developed aircraft had achieved its first international sale, although they did not disclose the customer

A senior Chinese aviation official has revealed that the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation FC-1/JF-17 fighter co-developed with Pakistan has been test-flown with a new Chinese medium-thrust turbofan engine.

Li Yuhai, an executive vice president with the Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC), told IHS Jane's at the Paris Airshow that a new Chinese turbofan for the J-17 has been "under testing," has completed "lab tests", and that "flight testing is in progress". He also said that the new engine would have a thrust slightly greater than the 8.7-ton thrust of the JF-17's current Klimov RD-93 turbofan.


In its first appearance at Paris, the JF-17 is also accompanied by two new weapon options. One is the C-705KD missile, an IIR/TV-guided ground-attack version of the 140-170 km-range C-705 that was revealed at the 2012 Zhuhai airshow. A Pakistani source said up to four C-705KDs could be carried by the JF-17.

The second new weapon displayed with the JF-17 for the first time is the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) CM-102 anti-radiation missile. Revealed at the 2014 Zhuhai show, it has an advertised range of 100 km. A Pakistani source noted that other versions could have 50% to 70% further range.

With all due respect, it seems modern engine building is not Chinese field. It would be better to get Russian blue print. Chinese still buying AL31 in bulk for J10 without TVC.

 

[That Guy]

will china be happy if Pakistan bypasses them.for Russian it makes sence to supply the engines directly to pakistan.
i think the reason the Pakistanies want to get the jets from Russia directly is becaue of some maintenance issues with the engine.

The Chinese don't really care, as they make money either way.

 

[MastanKhan]

Why Pakistan air force don't use the jf-17 in bombing instead of the f-16 this way they save the viper for the real threat?.

Hi,

It is to show the U S the importance of the F16----.

The missions with JF17 are being carried out but not being advertised.

With all due respect, it seems modern engine building is not Chinese field. It would be better to get Russian blue print. Chinese still buying AL31 in bulk for J10 without TVC.

Hi,

That seems to be incorrect---the twin engined aircraft are flying with the chinese engine---some of the J10's also flying with the chinese engines.

The current chinese engine are no different than those on the F16's in the 80's---. Just look at their crash rate during the 80's----.

The chinese will resolve the engine issue in a very short time but it won't stop them from flying them.

 

[Zee-shaun]

will china be happy if Pakistan bypasses them.for Russian it makes sence to supply the engines directly to pakistan.
i think the reason the Pakistanies want to get the jets from Russia directly is becaue of some maintenance issues with the engine.

China is the thriving force behind the renewed Pak-Russia relationship. It's very much in her interest to persuade Russia to supply hardware directly to Pakistan inorder to increase pressure on india.
Russia may as well agree and grant China an export waiver fot the J-11D to Pakistan in near future.

 

[Khafee]

They could indicate a renewed interest to place an order of extra 100 JF-17s taking the total number to 250. They by no means will replace F-16s, the replacement will be FC-31 which also uses the same class of engines.

29,000lbs X2 ?

 

[Paksanity]

29,000lbs X2 ?

Using RD-93 would be 22,000lbs x 2 (Klimov puts 98KN figure as wet thrust for RD-93). It is more likely that production aircraft might use RD-93MA which most likely be based on RD-33MK. Significant improvements being enhanced engine life (4000 hrs) and increased thrust (7% increased thrust mentioned but I would guess future variant close to 110 KN~25000 lbs). Klimov mentions on its website that future engines will be based on RD-33MK which was designed for naval fighters to get off AC in unassisted take off. Which means increased thrust. I would assume Rd-93MA would be based on RD-33MK currently in use on MiG-29K/ KUB and MiG-35. Further details here

JSC "Klimov" - RD-33MK

 

[Imad.Khan]

As the F-35 starts entering service with USAF in large number, surplus F-16s will be made available as EDA. Possible Pakistan could acquire these for minimum cost.

PAF is acting like a kid and F16 is its favorite toy. Anyway i agree with the above post. PAF would be able to buy many of these toys cheaply when F35 is launched, not just direct from the US but from all the other nations that will swapping their F16s with F35s

 

[Tank131]

I think people fail to get the vast difference between the f-16 of the 80s and the block 52+, which are still amongst the deadliest fighters in the world. Leave the fact that the payload is far and away the best in the paf, it also is substantially subsidized so PAF is adding very high quality fighters for very little expense from its own coffers. Add to this that the block 52+ is coming with quite advanced electronic warfare capabilities which is the main reason India has been jumping up and down.

As far as strike capabilities, the JF-17 has more standoff weaponry at its disposal but against terrorists that have limited to no Antiair capabilities, those are a waste of $$, especially when jdams are highly accurate and subsidized. The F-16 has more endurance and can deliver more weapons on target and the aircraft is partly paid for by the US AND the weaponry is paid for. So why wouldnt PAF go for them. If it wants the Su-35 it will have to pay for them out of its own coffers and still it will go for F-16 as long as the US is willing to pay for a big chunk of them. It would be stupid not to. Now paying the whole sum out of its own coffers is a different story.