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Busting the myth of "British Railway Gift" and other gifts to India

whatever I was 'smoking', it is definitely not false pride.

I didn't say Indian railway system had not developed, I am only saying that the development was not significant, and the authorities asked far more from it than investing in it. The statistics may look impressive on paper, but what about the quality and real development? If you can't think of one example, I suggest you compare the punctuality of trains in different countries.

Regarding railways, the Indian government had a great head start that was enviable to many. It may be unfair if we use Japan or France as benchmarks, but let's consider China. China had 27,000 km of rail in 1949 compared to 55,000 km of rail in India in 1947, but 50 years later, China has more rails; in 2012 it is even 98,000km vs. 65,000 km (and China has more electrified rails too). The Chinese went through 6 rounds of "speed up" campaigns from 1997 to 2007, lifting top operation speed to 250km/h on most major rails, and they built the world's longest HSR network (more than the rest combined) in four years and still the network is expanding as we speak. About half of the 27,000 km of rail in China in 1949 were built by the Japanese in Manchuria, but I don't recall anyone saying that these rails were a gift from Japan. If you want to see some other examples on a smaller scale, you could always check out South Korea.

From your comment I can see that you are contented with the vertical comparison of historical Indian railway data, but whether you realize it or not, the world is moving at a much faster pace.

Commenting on some other nation on the basis of some random figures n assumption is very easy when u don't know about the ground realities of that nation.

In ur first post ur were crying that Indians didn't invested anything in their railways n talking as if we r still using 1950s system, all this without even doing an iota of research on the topic.

Yes, I m proud of my nation n its railways for what its has achieved but that doesn't mean i don't realise that we have still a long way to go, only if were n Indian u would have seen what i have seen, today most trains runs on time(+- 1-2hr at max), Internet bookings n centralised system has helped people immensely, there r many new affordable AC n double decker trains running today for common people.

We r also stablishing mordern systems likes metros in nearly a dozen of cities n also planning to introduce High Speed trains on some of the routes.

I do admire what Chinese have achieved in such short period of time. Look brother every country is different n China had the economy to support such an expansion(today there economy is literally 4 times that of ours) where China stood in the early 2000s India stands at there today n Railways is also part of that economy n it'll also expand proportionately as the economy grows.

We just can't put China type system overnight here as our Railways will go bankrupt n neither our general people would be able to afford such a system(4 times per capita income rem).

I could have easily countered ur comparision by comparing our railways with our various neighbouring economies who also inherited the same system from the British n even have similar per capita Income today. But i won't bcoz i don't think it would be right as they r facing different internal n external factors then ours n neither i m interested in some d!ck measuring competion here like some people...:)
 
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I just realized that it was impossible for us to be on the same page. I suggest you travel more around the globe, go see what the world has already become, before that we will always be talking about different things.

Commenting on some other nation on the basis of some random figures n assumption is very easy when u don't know about the ground realities of that nation.

In ur first post ur were crying that Indians didn't invested anything in their railways n talking as if we r still using 1950s system, all this without even doing an iota of research on the topic.

Yes, I m proud of my nation n its railways for what its has achieved but that doesn't mean i don't realise that we have still a long way to go, only if were n Indian u would have seen what i have seen, today most trains runs on time(+- 1-2hr at max), Internet bookings n centralised system has helped people immensely, there r many new affordable AC n double decker trains running today for common people.

We r also stablishing mordern systems likes metros in nearly a dozen of cities n also planning to introduce High Speed trains on some of the routes.

I do admire what Chinese have achieved in such short period of time. Look brother every country is different n China had the economy to support such an expansion(today there economy is literally 4 times that of ours) where China stood in the early 2000s India stands at there today n Railways is also part of that economy n it'll also expand proportionately as the economy grows.

We just can't put China type system overnight here as our Railways will go bankrupt n neither our general people would be able to afford such a system(4 times per capita income rem).

I could have easily countered ur comparision by comparing our railways with our various neighbouring economies who also inherited the same system from the British n even have similar per capita Income today. But i won't bcoz i don't think it would be right as they r facing different internal n external factors then ours n neither i m interested in some d!ck measuring competion here like some people...:)
 
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I just realized that it was impossible for us to be on the same page. I suggest you travel more around the globe, go see what the world has already become, before that we will always be talking about different things.

I have travelled around the globe n i know very well what i m talking about n what u were talking about.

But i agree that lets agree to disagree...:)
 
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Commenting on some other nation on the basis of some random figures n assumption is very easy when u don't know about the ground realities of that nation.

In ur first post ur were crying that Indians didn't invested anything in their railways n talking as if we r still using 1950s system, all this without even doing an iota of research on the topic.

Yes, I m proud of my nation n its railways for what its has achieved but that doesn't mean i don't realise that we have still a long way to go, only if were n Indian u would have seen what i have seen, today most trains runs on time(+- 1-2hr at max), Internet bookings n centralised system has helped people immensely, there r many new affordable AC n double decker trains running today for common people.

We r also stablishing mordern systems likes metros in nearly a dozen of cities n also planning to introduce High Speed trains on some of the routes.

I do admire what Chinese have achieved in such short period of time. Look brother every country is different n China had the economy to support such an expansion(today there economy is literally 4 times that of ours) where China stood in the early 2000s India stands at there today n Railways is also part of that economy n it'll also expand proportionately as the economy grows.

We just can't put China type system overnight here as our Railways will go bankrupt n neither our general people would be able to afford such a system(4 times per capita income rem).

I could have easily countered ur comparision by comparing our railways with our various neighbouring economies who also inherited the same system from the British n even have similar per capita Income today. But i won't bcoz i don't think it would be right as they r facing different internal n external factors then ours n neither i m interested in some d!ck measuring competion here like some people...:)

agreed.

as our GDP growth continues, we will witness further modernization of Indian Railways
 
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For modern India’s iron and steel industry August 27, 1907 was a red-letter day when the Tata Iron and Steel Company (TISCO) was formed as a Swadeshi venture to produce 120,000 tonnes of pig iron. The TISCO plant at Sakchi (renamed Jamshedpur) in Bihar, started pig iron production in December 1908 and rolled out its first steel the following year. TISCO had expanded its production capacity to one million tonnes ingot by the time the country achieved freedom. The Tatas, as Gandhiji said, represented the "spirit of adventure" and Jamsetji Tata, in the words of Jawaharlal Nehru," laid the foundation of heavy industries in India". The British rulers disfavoured this and other attempts to start indigenous industry. It was chiefly with the help of American experts that the Tatas started their industry. Its childhood was precarious but the war of 1914-18 gave it a fillip. Again it languished and was in danger of passing into the hands of British debenture holders. But nationalist pressure saved it. In 1918, soon after the war, Indian Iron and Steel Company (IISCO) was formed. The then Mysore government also decided to start an iron works at Bhadravati. While IISCO started producing pig iron at Burnpur in 1922, the Mysore Iron and Steel Works took about 18 years to start its plant. Meanwhile, the Bengal Iron Works went into liquidation and merged with IISCO. The Steel Corporation of Bengal (SCOB) formed in 1937, started making steel in its Asansol plant. Later in 1953, SCOB merged with IISCO.

Prime Minister Nehru firmly believed that "no country can be jpolitically and economically independent unless it is highly industrialised and has developed its resources to the utmost". Nehru’s ideas about India’s development were broadly incorporated in free India’s first Industrial Policy Resolution adopted by the Contituent Assembly in 1948. The resolution officially accepted the principle of mixed economy. Industries were divided into four categories. In the first category were strategic industries which were made the monopoly of the Government. In the second category were six industries which included, among others, coal, iron and steel.

It was decided that new units would be started exclusively by the government in the public sector without disturbing the existing ones in the private sector. Eighteen industries, including heavy castings and forings of iron and steel, ferro alloys and tool steel were covered by the third category and the rest of the industries by the fourth. In sum, the government committed itself to the development of basic steel industry while the private sector was to benefit through the establishment of downstream units which would use pig iron, billets, blooms and flat products to be made by the public sector steel plants.

In keeping with the spirit of the resolution the Government decided to start a chain of steel plants all over the country in the public sector. The first such plant was set up at Rourkela in Orissa. The second came up at Bhilai in Madhya Pradesh. It was followed by a third at Durgapur in West Bengal. Each of these three plants had an initial production capacity of one million tonne ingot. Durgapur was followed by a steel plant at Bokaro in Bihar. The onward march of Indian steel did not stop at Bokaro. The fifth public sector steel plant was set up at Visakhapatnam in andhra Pradesh. As a matter of fact, the country was dotted with steel and steel-related plants in public and private sectors, like Alloy Steel Plant, Salem Steel Plant, Kalinga Iron Works, Malavika Steel Ltd., Jindal Vijaynagar Steel Ltd., to name only a few. About the same time TISCO launched its two-million-tonne expansion programme.

The Government’s Industrial Policy had undergone changes ____ once in 1956 and then in 1991. The resolution modified in 1956 brought changes in the category pattern and listed more industries for the public sector than did the earlier one, though it was not harsher towards the private enterprise. In the new industrial policy announced in 1991 iron and steel industry, among others, was included in the list of industries reserved for the public sector and exempted from the provision of compulsory licensing. With effect from May 24, 1992 iron and steel industry was included in the list of ‘high priority’ industry for automatic approval for foreign equity upto 51% (now 74%). Export-import regime for iron and steel has also undergone major liberalisation. The freight equalisation scheme was withdrawn removing freight disadvantage to States located near steel plants.
The new policy has already borne fruit. The finished steel pdroduction in India has gone up from mere 1.1 million tonnes in 1951 to 23.37 million tonnes in 1997-98 despite overall economic slow-down in the country.

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...6oGgAw&usg=AFQjCNHcN2BP1IHs--s9Lm0PteYNDPVlGA

Note: India's steel production was 72.2 million tons in 2011

India is now 4th largest producer of steel in world

550px-Steel_production_by_country_map.PNG





https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...hLo0QjCXH271C0JpG05FyMw&bvm=bv.44770516,d.bmk




another achievement of India due to effort of Indians
 
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According to an official return to the House of Commons, obtained many years ago, with great difficulty, by the late Mr. John Bright, the conditions not having materially changed in the meantime, out of 39,000 officials who drew a salary of more than 1,000 rupees a year 28,000 were Englishmen and only 11,000 natives, or in the ratio of more than five to two. The Englishmen, however, received on the average in salaries more than five to one what the natives are paid. Of 960 civil offices which really control the civil administration of India, 900 are occupied by Englishmen and only 60 by natives. The Indians have no control whatsoever over their own taxation, nor any voice at all in the expenditure of their own revenues. The entire civil government is now carried on by men who live lives quite remote from the people they govern, who have no permanent interest in their well-being and who return home, which they have frequently visited in the meantime, at forty-five or fifty-five years of age with large pensions. India is, in fact, now administered by successive relays of English carpet-baggers, men who go out with carpet-bags and return with chests, having ordinarily as little real sympathy with the natives as they have any deep knowledge of their habits and customs.

It is claimed by the supporters of European domination that this army, though admittedly entailing heavy charges, is cheaply purchased; seeing that, by its presence, peace is ensured from one end of Hindostan to the other. But the horrors of peace, even in the Western World, are often worse than the horrors of war, and in India this is unfortunately still more apparent. The vigour and intelligence of one-fifth of the human race is being kept down by this despotic peace. Beautiful arts are falling into decay. Native culture is being crushed out. Agriculture is steadily deteriorating. Anything in the shape of patriotism or national feeling is discouraged, and its advocates are persecuted and imprisoned. Denunciation of the wrongs of British rule is treason and legitimate combination to resist tyranny is a pernicious plot. Peace is not worth having at such a price, even if accompanied by increasing wealth. But when such peace goes hand in hand with growing impoverishment for the mass of the people, then clearly we are face to face with an utterly ruinous and hateful system
 
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Indian and Pakistan should join their railways and make it one of the best railways in the world.
 
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Indian and Pakistan should join their railways and make it one of the best railways in the world.

Indian railways is already the biggest rail network in the world........what you are proposing is not possible practically........
 
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Indian railways is already the biggest rail network in the world........what you are proposing is not possible practically........

It is just a crazy nationalism, the region needs to grow, instead of buying guns from war industry. European Union came into being, when they start sharing railway tracks. The people of this region need to have better life, future and security.
 
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Indian and Pakistan should join their railways and make it one of the best railways in the world.

You gotta be joking. Join Indian railways with a non existent shamble of a network ? What have you been smoking mate ? Its saying something like lets join USAF and Somalian Air force and make it the best air force in the world....

Ridiculous.
 
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You gotta be joking. Join Indian railways with a non existent shamble of a network ? What have you been smoking mate ? Its saying something like lets join USAF and Somalian Air force and make it the best air force in the world....

Ridiculous.

Narcissistic attitude by some of Indian politicians from the very beginning has put the region into a war zone. Being the copy cat for the west doesn't make indie any economic power. The countries which developed in the world, made their economic groups e.g. European Union, G-7, NAFTA (North American free trade agreement). Best economic group of this region is SARC (south Asian regional cooperation). India as a big country has to play a big role in this cooperation.
 
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We are doing fine on our own thank you. Its a ridiculous idea that we would want to be burdened by non performers.
 
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Its true that Britisi started several stuff in India which helped us out later like the postal service,railways,HAL etc. Had they not did it,we would have to face a tough time kick starting them.
But there's no need to thank them for it.

HAL start by Premier group later take over by British Indian govt. in WW2
 
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We are doing fine on our own thank you. Its a ridiculous idea that we would want to be burdened by non performers.

These non performers once ruled India for two centuries. They taught you education, architecture, healthcare and technology.
These non performers treated you like special guests and never isolated or abandoned you. These non performers once make India as the golden sparrow of the world.
Is there anything these performers (Indian) making on their own. Copy cat of west and running call centers for US, is not the performance.
 
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