Featured Businesses to follow unrealistic guidelines to escape FATF grey list

[TheDarkKnight]

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What a load of nonsense these guys come up with. FATF is not some secret agency who is hell bent as an Enemy of Pakistan. Its policies and guidelines are open in public. Now if these so called countries really wanted to destroy the extremely talented business community of Pakistan, whose each member is no less than Steve Jobs or Jack Ma hai, they can simply black list Pakistan and sanction the hell out of us like Iran or North Korea; they don’t need to play the drama of making PTI govt pass laws.

 

[Bilal.]

Unbelievable. What is most basic practice in the world is deemed unrealistic in Pakistan.

 

[SQ8]

It is merely amusing to note that those who want the national "do sau billian doller" returned from abroad as corrupt proceeds do not wish to support any steps that would prevent the problem at the roots where it starts. After all, PMIK exhorted the UNGA to takes steps to return monies stolen from the third world by corruption. For such appeals to find traction, one must be willing to take the steps required to curb corruption at the source too.



Yes, and quite tough in fact.

Agreed - which is also why places like Pakistan are safe havens for putting in criminally obtained money to turn around all cleaned to be sent the same illegal way it came in - out.

 

[muhammadhafeezmalik]

What a load of nonsense these guys come up with. FATF is not some secret agency who is hell bent as an Enemy of Pakistan. Its policies and guidelines are open in public. Now if these so called countries really wanted to destroy the extremely talented business community of Pakistan, whose each member is no less than Steve Jobs or Jack Ma hai, they can simply black list Pakistan and sanction the hell out of us like Iran or North Korea; they don’t need to play the drama of making PTI govt pass laws.

Question remains the same, what if even after passing and implementing these draconian laws FATF keeps Pakistan in gray list??

 

[S.Y.A]

What is so unrealistic and unreasonable about this? When I bought my house, i went through a lengthy procedure and had to provide explanation where my money came from in UK. There is nothing here that is unheard of in other countries.

did you prove that to the FBR or to the seller? the thing that is stupid and unrealistic is that the govt doesnt want to do its job, and is instead putting the burden of "due diligence" on the seller. this is what nab, fbr and fia are for. lazy govt = stupid laws.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Question remains the same, what if even after passing and implementing these draconian laws FATF keeps Pakistan in gray list??

If the laws reduce money laundering, smuggling and increases the cost of corruption then they are still beneficial. Pakistan has to comply with FATF regulations in order to progress. This country can either be for the few corrupt elite or for the common economic good of the general public.

 

[blueazure]

First pay your taxes before barking..you proudly claimed that you don't pay your due tax right here on PDF.


Patwari should not forget their auqaat.

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[313ghazi]

This is standard practice in the UK, apart from Jewellers. Any large cash transaction is monitored. Most businesses in the UK only accept card payments for larger transactions.

 

[VCheng]

Agreed - which is also why places like Pakistan are safe havens for putting in criminally obtained money to turn around all cleaned to be sent the same illegal way it came in - out.

If only we had the collective wisdom to make such routing through Pakistan beneficial for the local economy by offering legal investments to provide a veneer of suitable white-washing for such monies, similar to the approaches offered elsewhere.

 

[Mav3rick]

Whether similar laws exist in the US or Europe is irrelevant. In Pakistan, we need exceptionally stringent laws to control our exceptionally high levels of corruption.

The perceived disadvantages of these laws that you enumerated in your earlier post are hypothetical. Even if they are true, they would be insignificant compared to the benefits of a free, just, and predictable system, where businesses and investors would know what to expect without nasty surprises in the form of political interference, corruption charges, bribery, extortion, etc.

On the contrary, all we need is implementation of laws; we have a bigger constitution than all the first world countries and yet we don't have proper implementation. The elite get away with murder and the common man will spend 20 years behind bars for something which he/she never did. Jails are full of people with either a history of petty crimes or still on trial whereas Shahrukh Jatoi's either get a "get out of jail free" card or spend their time between home and private hospitals under VVIP treatment.

 

[ColonelSanders]

did you prove that to the FBR or to the seller? the thing that is stupid and unrealistic is that the govt doesnt want to do its job, and is instead putting the burden of "due diligence" on the seller. this is what nab, fbr and fia are for. lazy govt = stupid laws.

You dont prove anything to HMRC (FBR equivalent of UK). It is the responsibility of the buyer and seller to provide this information to their solicitors (lawyer). Without this no one considers your request to buy the property. So i provided my info to my solicitor, who then communicated the same to the solicitor of the seller and the bank that in turn does the documentation for HMRC. So yes, Govt is doing its job by setting the rules how things should be done.

 

[S.Y.A]

So i provided my info to my solicitor

this isnt UK, this is Paksitan. there is no concept of solicitors to handle your business for you (again, it is not the seller but his solicitor doing all of this). this is what happens when you borrow western laws and try to push them here, instead of coming up with solutions based to local environment.

 

[ColonelSanders]

this isnt UK, this is Paksitan. there is no concept of solicitors to handle your business for you (again, it is not the seller but his solicitor doing all of this). this is what happens when you borrow western laws and try to push them here, instead of coming up with solutions based to local environment.

So you are saying that someone buying a property worth PKR 10,000,000 cant afford to pay PKR 10,000 to a lawyer for the documentation?
What is local environment? Every single person will be ready to move to other countries when an opportunity is presented but when it comes to implementing the same laws as the other countries, we have an argument of local environment?
Dont tell me that you have never paid a munshi money to get a stamp paper typed/written. But for property purchase we cant go through a lawyer?

 

[CriticalThought]

So here as some facts.

Circa 2016 a friend of mine wanted to sell a property in the 6 million dollars range (approx). Someone from China paid him 3 million dollars (approx) up front through bank transfer. When the time came up to pay the rest, this person put forth the story that the Chinese government has all of a sudden tightened restrictions so they cannot transfer the rest of the money and need some time. Months passed and the person started suggesting that they will happily give (say) 10% to my friend if he will return the rest of the money.

Sydney's entire property market has been fueled by easy flow of Chinese money. We are talking two bed apartments going for the range of 1.5 million dollars. We have been told by the government that there is minimal Chinese involvement. That flies in the face of my friend's experience above. It also flies in the face of facts. Ever since Australia had a spat with China and China really tightened restrictions, the Sydney property bubble has collapsed. No, you cannot attribute this to Covid because property dealers have found innovative online ways to provide 360 degree tours, along with privately booked tours, and online auctions.

Now take a look at the Gold Souq in Dubai. Are you telling me these shopkeepers will ask someone to prove they are not a PEP before transacting with them? If FATF restrictions were to be imposed on just the Dubai gold souq, the shopkeepers would have to close shop. Their customers are people who are flying in and out of the country. There is not a chance they can keep tabs on their money. And here we have someone daring us to 'plop a wad of cash at a jeweler'. The guy in this video is literally carrying around a wad of cash, and the video shows a purchase using credit card. One of the shop keepers says they accept credit, Apply Pay, and American Express. And this video is from Feb 2020.

I have personally helped my friend buy jewelery from tiffany.com around end of 2019. There is no need to show you are not a PEP.

And let us deal straight on with the people talking about buying property in the UK. Supplying a money trail is not the same as showing you are not a PEP, which is what the new law is about. This identification requirement will have implications for the poor who use gold as a means of buffer against inflation.

 

[ColonelSanders]

So here as some facts.

Circa 2016 a friend of mine wanted to sell a property in the 6 million dollars range (approx). Someone from China paid him 3 million dollars (approx) up front through bank transfer. When the time came up to pay the rest, this person put forth the story that the Chinese government has all of a sudden tightened restrictions so they cannot transfer the rest of the money and need some time. Months passed and the person started suggesting that they will happily give (say) 10% to my friend if he will return the rest of the money.

Sydney's entire property market has been fueled by easy flow of Chinese money. We are talking two bed apartments going for the range of 1.5 million dollars. We have been told by the government that there is minimal Chinese involvement. That flies in the face of my friend's experience above. It also flies in the face of facts. Ever since Australia had a spat with China and China really tightened restrictions, the Sydney property bubble has collapsed. No, you cannot attribute this to Covid because property dealers have found innovative online ways to provide 360 degree tours, along with privately booked tours, and online auctions.

Now take a look at the Gold Souq in Dubai. Are you telling me these shopkeepers will ask someone to prove they are not a PEP before transacting with them? If FATF restrictions were to be imposed on just the Dubai gold souq, the shopkeepers would have to close shop. Their customers are people who are flying in and out of the country. There is not a chance they can keep tabs on their money. And here we have someone daring us to 'plop a wad of cash at a jeweler'. The guy in this video is literally carrying around a wad of cash, and the video shows a purchase using credit card. One of the shop keepers says they accept credit, Apply Pay, and American Express. And this video is from Feb 2020.

I have personally helped my friend buy jewelery from tiffany.com around end of 2019. There is no need to show you are not a PEP.

And let us deal straight on with the people talking about buying property in the UK. Supplying a money trail is not the same as showing you are not a PEP, which is what the new law is about. This identification requirement will have implications for the poor who use gold as a means of buffer against inflation.

UAE is a monarchy not a democracy. For Australia, https://www.austrac.gov.au/business...verification/politically-exposed-persons-peps

Australia has the same guidelines for PEPs. Plus do they have the corruption at the same level as Pakistan? The day they have Nawaz Sharif as their prime minister, they will have to come up with stricter regulations as well