Burqa 'not welcome' in France: Sarkozy

[SinoIndusFriendship]

i totally disagree with you

this is a pervert thinking and this is mostly developed in either poor nations in the name of religion..where men are pathetic...and drink and smoke all day...and where women have to perform all basic homely work as well as outside also.....if u consider clothes as an expression of freedom than i agree.... but if you consider clothes as a function of religion or society..than it becomes pervertness...and thus leads to suppression of fair sex....it is as good as having a beautiful birds to whom you may be feed best diet daily but still the poor living creature is kept in cage...as she cannot fly....just let loose them and see they will never return even if u were giving them all comforts with best diet....this is freedom ..............

Sounds like any classic European nation.

Kidding aside, you gotta open up your mind. It's no longer the Crusaders, or Euro-Imperialism --- you can't impose your 'values' onto others. I've seen America and Europe and Asia and Africa, and to be truthful these poor nations are more respectful than the rich. Just ask yourself who is causing troubles for whom.

ONE WORD: KARMA

Take UK they are learning this really fast. At first they benefited from Dollar/Sterling Hedgmony and 'interest'/profits from Usury and their past imperialistic exploitations (i.e. they still receive billions in 'royalty'). UK doesn't produce or build much of anything these days. 100 years ago no one complained since it 'wasn't their responsibility those non-white savages were poor' (ignoring obvious facts). 50 years ago only a few complained. But now, the elite of Europe have shown their true double-faces.

I can tell you from personal experience how much things have changed in last couple decades alone. There is racial discrimination and class discrimination. Now that more Whites are becoming poor, they are 'relating' more to non-Whites. Before they were arrogant and sneered down at us, now all of a sudden I am their 'brother'.

Why is it that people only start to sympathize only they are down in the dumps??? It is like when I needed help they abused me. Now that I have risen and they fallen, they ask for my help only forgetting how they treated me not long ago. Not all people are like that, but too many are. I don't hold grudges, but given a poor kind person and a poor mean person, I will help the former before the latter.

ONE WORD: KARMA

 

[wtf]

So what? France has every right to ban the 'burqa' it is their country. If they feel the burqa transgresses their policies both secular and security then yes they absolutely may ban it.


Besides, what PM. Sarkozy really said if a women chooses not to wear a burqa she may do so and her family cannot force her to. Though someone mentioned it was a sign of subservience, which is really an irrational judgment because some women wish to protect their modesty in accordance with their religion (their religious practice & interpretation).


But it should be noted that the burqa is not necessarily a Quran mandate, modesty is and their are other types of clothing for that. But the 'burqa' is extreme. It can also create a security risk, (people to walk around fully covered and hide their physical appearance completely).


Burqa is extreme it is not really something that is derived from Islam it is more of a wahabi-talibani cultural concept.


It shouldn't be encouraged either in Pakistan. Though if some women choose to wear it that is fine, their wish is respected.

I can understand how France has a right to ban it. I also believe that a full Burqa should not be encouraged on religious grounds.

But I am also of the opinion that a blanket ban may not be morally justifiable. If there is even one woman in France who wears Burqa out of own decision and that woman feels naked without the Burqa, then the ban will infringe on her rights. I don't think government should ban/mandate any kind of dress.

I mean, if they (the government) bought a rule that a suit and tie is mandatory in public places, I would be offended and just on principle would wear shorts and T-shirt. But on the other hand, I can perfectly well understand how a merchant banking firm or a lawyers office would require a suit-and-tie as mandatory and would wear it if I was employed there. I would even wear a prescribed dress in government offices if I were an employee there.

Just like religion, I don't think there should be any compulsion by the government. Government should enforce dress codes for driving license photos, ID cards, for govt. employees etc. But a ban in public places is stretching it.

 

[wtf]

Sounds like any classic European nation.

Kidding aside, you gotta open up your mind. It's no longer the Crusaders, or Euro-Imperialism --- you can't impose your 'values' onto others. I've seen America and Europe and Asia and Africa, and to be truthful these poor nations are more respectful than the rich. Just ask yourself who is causing troubles for whom.

ONE WORD: KARMA

Take UK they are learning this really fast. At first they benefited from Dollar/Sterling Hedgmony and 'interest'/profits from Usury and their past imperialistic exploitations (i.e. they still receive billions in 'royalty'). UK doesn't produce or build much of anything these days. 100 years ago no one complained since it 'wasn't their responsibility those non-white savages were poor' (ignoring obvious facts). 50 years ago only a few complained. But now, the elite of Europe have shown their true double-faces.

I can tell you from personal experience how much things have changed in last couple decades alone. There is racial discrimination and class discrimination. Now that more Whites are becoming poor, they are 'relating' more to non-Whites. Before they were arrogant and sneered down at us, now all of a sudden I am their 'brother'.

Why is it that people only start to sympathize only they are down in the dumps??? It is like when I needed help they abused me. Now that I have risen and they fallen, they ask for my help only forgetting how they treated me not long ago. Not all people are like that, but too many are. I don't hold grudges, but given a poor kind person and a poor mean person, I will help the former before the latter.

ONE WORD: KARMA

Well the question is who is imposing whose values on whom?
If Burqa is part of Islamic culture and that makes it allright to wear a Burqa in Islamic countries (or even mandatory), then why can't France impose its own values on its own people?
Would not wearing a Burqa be seen as imposing Islamic culture on France ?

I don't subscribe to holding people who live in France responsible for any (assumed) mistakes of other people who lived there. Old people die off and their beliefs die off with them. Newer people are born and they have different beliefs. So you can't say that France has changed its imperialistic policies - they are different people.

And even historically speaking, France was a pretty decent country. They helped USA get their independence, they helped Tipu Sultan (even started a Jacobin club in Mysore) and of all the conquerors of India were the nicest. While the Portuguese were hunting down "heretics" (Jews, Orthodox Christians, Hindus and ,when they could, Muslims) , the East India company becoming kingmakers, the French (and Dutch) were liberal and treated others as equals.

 

[Desertfalcon]

I LOVE my faith which is Islam and devoted to only One God (in Arabic is Allah). I myself read whole Quran book that help me to increase more knowledge. In Quran, we are being taught to respect women and treat them same as other people. It is women's choices.

According to the topic, Burqa I find is something disturbing because alot of people assuming that it is related to Islam and forcing them to wear it which is completely wrong and dangerous assumption. I am quite sad that they are not aware of beautiful guiding Islam.

I reject Burqa (from head to toe), in fact we need know that Allah create women to be pretty as same as men to be handsome. I want to thank to Allah for many wonderful creation on this planet (animals, birds, trees, sky, people, so on).

Hijab is perfect example of women's role as we must not surprised to see traditional hijab women anywhere. (I am sure not only Muslim, there are other religions who allow covered women-some Christians, Jews, etc).

In conclusion, again it is some people who force to wear BURQA (or some women who pick BURQA), not from Islam.

Peace out!

That is one of the nicest expressions of Islam I have read.

 

[Omar1984]

i totally disagree with you

this is a pervert thinking and this is mostly developed in either poor nations in the name of religion..where men are pathetic...and drink and smoke all day...and where women have to perform all basic homely work as well as outside also.....if u consider clothes as an expression of freedom than i agree.... but if you consider clothes as a function of religion or society..than it becomes pervertness...and thus leads to suppression of fair sex....it is as good as having a beautiful birds to whom you may be feed best diet daily but still the poor living creature is kept in cage...as she cannot fly....just let loose them and see they will never return even if u were giving them all comforts with best diet....this is freedom ..............

So you would rather have a fat old French lady walking around in a bikini in Paris than a Muslim woman who choses to cover herself from head to toe?

Did you ever wonder what Muslim women want for themselves?
There are over a billion Muslims in the world today, not all think, dress, look, act the same. Some Muslim women chose to cover from head to toe, some Muslim women chose not to cover their hair but they still dress modestly, some Muslim women chose to dress like western women.

Why can't you respect the women's choice on how she wishes to dress?

I thought France was all for freedom of expression, freedom of speech, etc...

 

[TOPGUN]

Hey listen its there country and if they dont want it then they dont want it i agree with them in a way sorry to say with things these days happeing with these bastard terrorist nations of the world are afraid of attacks or other mishaps although judging one in such way if a muslim women is covered is not be judged but u win some and you loose some ! You see these terroist bastards now dress in ways that blend in with the normal public making it hard to make out and then carry out there cowardnes anyhow i agree with this topic on a 50/50 bases only ! as per freedom of speech is concern its a shame but most modern nations have cut out that law for us muslims and why and why u ask well all because of these bastard a$$ terrorist its all because of them that muslims around the world are getting harsed and be taken out from the freedom of speech rights i hope all these bastards die soon!

 

[Awesome]

The height of crazyness.

Although every woman (UAE National) requires to wear a Burqa in UAE. Inside the Burqa they wear western clothes such as jeans and sleeveless tops etc.

They have fashion shows of Burqa's in which models are all european non muslims.

However 2nd wife of UAE ruler who hails from Jordan never wears a Burqa.

Emirati women are not REQUIRED to wear the burkha.

Most women who wear the burkha in the work place do so as a sign of national identity. Even if they just wear it like a trench court. Its more national than religious.

On the flipside, France is just throwing freedom of religion and expression down the drain. These are nothing but desperate moves of a country in Islamophobia since France is rapidly becoming Muslim. There are several examples of Hijabi/Burkha women who have made it big in the world and CHOSE to wear what they wear without any MAN forcing a piece of clothing on a woman.

On the flipside, we have Mr. Sarkozy enforcing women to take off a piece of their clothing. Wrong on so many levels.

The only way I'd understand a ban on Burkhas would be if there's a bad security situation demanding it. But I'm pretty sure most of these nutjob Islamophobics would extend this to even a simple head-covering.

 

[qsaark]

There are few things that I would like to say in connection with this 'Burqa not allowed in France'.

First of all France is not a Muslim country, it has its own culture and French are very nationalistic. Since it is their country, they have all the right to make laws that are according to their culture. In Islamic countries, we don’t allow the westerners to do certain things such as drinking alcohol, and sun bathing in open etc. If we can impose certain laws on the westerners, why they can’t impose laws on foreigners irrespective of Muslims or not?

And the second thing is, if some one has to cover herself from head to toe, why she or her family chooses to go to France in the first place?

I had a friend here in USA. I know him from the days when both of us used to work in the Aga Khan University back in late nineties. He immigrated to Canada and I went to Malaysia. Later we joined together here in Atlanta after almost 5 years. My friend (and his family) are very practicing Muslims. He invited me to his house, me and my family went. He did not let her wife come in front of me, in fact he took me upstairs and served me food there. OK, even though neither my wife nor I liked this whole idea, since he was a friend, and the host, we respected his choice. Later on, I invited him to my house, and even after repeated invitations, he refused to come. And you know why? Because he thought I would not be able to serve them with Halal food since I used to buy meat from a different store selling halal meat than his, and that I might not be able to serve him and his wife separately. Now what kind of Islam is this? Obviously if he had come to my house, I would have never come in front of his wife if that is what he likes. But simply refusing invitation from another Muslim who also happens to be your friend, how Islamic is this?

Question is why the hell such people leave their country in the first place if they had to do all this? These people find it OK to serve Kaafirs and earn money in their countries but don’t want to follow their laws and cultural norms. Sorry to say but I have found Westerners far more civilized as compared to the Asians in general and Muslims in particular. I have several American friends, few are French. Whenever I was invited, never once they put pork or alcohol on the table. They know we are Muslims and they have always respected our religion. Once I and my family were invited by one of my friend to spend vacations at his parents place up in North Carolina. We stayed with them for a full week and during all this time, they did not cook pork and never drank alcohol while we were around. Similarly neither I nor my wife has ever been asked about our dress code. No one ever forced us to put on swimming costumes on the beach etc. Fact of the matter is, it is easier to live in Kaafir's lands than it is in the Muslim countries. I am extremely sorry if someone's feelings are hurt, but that is my experience.

 

[dbc]

Unfortunately this ban is driven by fear; a fear born out of the realization that France is slowly losing its ‘Frenchness’ – its unique identity. While many have accepted that immigrants have enriched France, there are others who balk at the external influence now ubiquitous across France. Some fear the identify crisis is so severe that the national glue since the revolution the belief in liberté, égalité, fraternité may no longer hold the nation together.

-JMHO

 

[TruthSeeker]

Unfortunately this ban is driven by fear; a fear born out of the realization that France is slowly losing its ‘Frenchness’ – its unique identity.

Yes, and while this is off-topic and I don't mean to trivialize the Burka issue, the French also don't like "McDonald's", "Kentucky Fried Chicken" and other culturally invasive things Americaine, although they haven't banned them yet. DBC is right, it is their fear of the loss of "Frenchness" and there are many cultural pressures from globalization.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Burqa not allowed in Turkey.

Hijab banned in Tunisia.

Ayatollah Khomeni was asked to remove his turban while he was on a state visit to Turkey.

Turkish Army/Airforce men cannot have beards. They are required to be clean shave.

All of the above examples, if true, just as condemnable as the French proposal.

 

[A1Kaid]

Unfortunately this ban is driven by fear; a fear born out of the realization that France is slowly losing its ‘Frenchness’ – its unique identity. While many have accepted that immigrants have enriched France, there are others who balk at the external influence now ubiquitous across France. Some fear the identify crisis is so severe that the national glue since the revolution the belief in liberté, égalité, fraternité may no longer hold the nation together.

-JMHO

I agree fear is a great motivator, though allow me to elaborate.

Though I don't understand why the French feel this hopelessness, I understand the European population overall is declining and that is their own fault, the decline in family importance is to blame. Europeans should simply reproduce more currently the birth rate from what I understand is 1.2-1.5, but 2.1 is needed for a majority population to maintain an overall growth.

French people should simply reproduce more. Also it is their governments who allow Muslims into their country. See France and many European countries have a shortage of laborers and workers so they allow Muslims to fill in those spots and Muslim immigration leads to Muslim living in France/Europe and having larger families than French/European people. On average a Muslim family in France/Europe has 4 children, this is enough to attain the majority by 2050, if not earlier.



Though there is another side to this, if fear is to blame for the ban on the burqa, then how do you explain France allowing halal food to be prepared in French schools and Masjids to be built.

Maybe the French just believe as many genuine Muslims do that the "Burqa" is nonsense it can present a security risk, it is also not mandated by the Quran.

Also the French believe, that wearing the burqa hinders the opportunity for a women to freely socialize and leaves women isolated, this is a valid reason.


Also I oppose the burqa on religious and moral grounds. When a women wears a burqa it is difficult to breathe and see from inside the burqa!



We should ask what do women want, their opinions matters.

 

[A1Kaid]

By the way look at Pakistani women they are able to dress respectfully and modestly in accordance with our civilization and religion (Islam).

There is no need for the "burqa", their are better alternatives for women who choose to protect their modesty. Pakistani women wear the "dubatta" or "dupatta" however you wish to spell it, it is a easy, comfortable, and modest way to dress without any hindrance on social freedoms, communication, and social activity...

It is a good balance really, again the point is "burqa" is not needed and it is extreme, it hinders women from seeing clearly which is very very dangerous if your in the street, driving (obviously!), walking across a street/traffic, also it hinders a woman's natural pace of breath.



It is not needed. I strongly oppose it.

 

[A1Kaid]

Even North Korea banned the "Burqa", because it was too oppressive!!!








Haha Great Punch Line!

 

[gubbi]

There are few things that I would like to say in connection with this 'Burqa not allowed in France'.

First of all France is not a Muslim country, it has its own culture and French are very nationalistic. Since it is their country, they have all the right to make laws that are according to their culture. In Islamic countries, we don’t allow the westerners to do certain things such as drinking alcohol, and sun bathing in open etc. If we can impose certain laws on the westerners, why they can’t impose laws on foreigners irrespective of Muslims or not?

And the second thing is, if some one has to cover herself from head to toe, why she or her family chooses to go to France in the first place?

I had a friend here in USA. I know him from the days when both of us used to work in the Aga Khan University back in late nineties. He immigrated to Canada and I went to Malaysia. Later we joined together here in Atlanta after almost 5 years. My friend (and his family) are very practicing Muslims. He invited me to his house, me and my family went. He did not let her wife come in front of me, in fact he took me upstairs and served me food there. OK, even though neither my wife nor I liked this whole idea, since he was a friend, and the host, we respected his choice. Later on, I invited him to my house, and even after repeated invitations, he refused to come. And you know why? Because he thought I would not be able to serve them with Halal food since I used to buy meat from a different store selling halal meat than his, and that I might not be able to serve him and his wife separately. Now what kind of Islam is this? Obviously if he had come to my house, I would have never come in front of his wife if that is what he likes. But simply refusing invitation from another Muslim who also happens to be your friend, how Islamic is this?

Question is why the hell such people leave their country in the first place if they had to do all this? These people find it OK to serve Kaafirs and earn money in their countries but don’t want to follow their laws and cultural norms. Sorry to say but I have found Westerners far more civilized as compared to the Asians in general and Muslims in particular. I have several American friends, few are French. Whenever I was invited, never once they put pork or alcohol on the table. They know we are Muslims and they have always respected our religion. Once I and my family were invited by one of my friend to spend vacations at his parents place up in North Carolina. We stayed with them for a full week and during all this time, they did not cook pork and never drank alcohol while we were around. Similarly neither I nor my wife has ever been asked about our dress code. No one ever forced us to put on swimming costumes on the beach etc. Fact of the matter is, it is easier to live in Kaafir's lands than it is in the Muslim countries. I am extremely sorry if someone's feelings are hurt, but that is my experience.

Couldn't have said it better bro.
Their land, their laws. We are their guests. Gotta follow their rules when in their land, whatever they be.
If you don't like it then leave! Simple.