Burqa - A Security Challenge?

[Developereo]

A good commonsense law...

Police can order removal of face coverings under new NSW law

Police have welcomed new laws that require people to remove face coverings or risk a fine or jail time, saying officers will no longer be hindered on the job.

Under changes to the Law Enforcement Act that have the backing of the Islamic community, police can require anyone to remove a face covering - including a helmet, burqa, niqab or mask.

In most cases, the penalty would be a $220 fine, but cases involving motorists could incur penalties of up to a year in jail and a fine of $5500.

The NSW ombudsman will conduct a review of the new laws after 12 months.

"People will only be required to remove a face covering for as long as it takes to identify them," NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell said as he announced details of the new laws today.

"Those who want to be identified privately for cultural and religious reasons can request to go to a police station.

"I have every respect for different religions and beliefs but, when it comes to enforcing the law, the police should be given adequate powers to make a clear identification."

The changes, to be introduced into the NSW parliament next week, were drafted in response to the controversy surrounding a Sydney woman sentenced to jail for falsely accusing an officer of trying to remove her burqa.

The sentence against Carnita Matthews was later quashed after the District Court ruled there was no evidence to confirm it was she who filed the complaint, because the person wearing the veil could not be identified.

Police Association president Scott Weber said the new laws were overdue, and would help officers deal with "multicultural issues in a sensible way".

"We've seen time and time again that police officers have been hindered in regards to doing their jobs," Mr Weber said.

"A police officer should have the power to identify any motorist on a road in NSW to determine they're the driver of that vehicle, to make sure that all the community is safe, and the motorist has not committed any offence previously, and we can also give the ticket to the right person."

Mr Weber said the changes, flagged by Mr O'Farrell in July, had been embraced by the Islamic community.

"This is legislation that is commonsense, and I don't think anyone can negate it and say it's heavy-handed," he said.

"It's about making sure police officers can do their job and the community is safe."

The chairman of the Islamic Council of NSW, Khaled Sukkarieh, said the tough laws would have minimal impact on the Muslim community.

"We don't believe (the changes are) going to cause any problems for us," he said.

"This will be reviewed over the next 12 months as well, and ... if there are any issues that have been brought up, then obviously they'll be taken care of."

 

[khurasaan1]

Tell me your translation? My translation is word for word, tell me how you're understanding it?

---------- Post added at 06:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------



What is there to understand more? Its not a riddle, its written in simple Arabic. Do this, don't do that, simple. Allah is so specific in this Ayat that there should be no doubt... Read and there is your answer... Masla is you are not reading what is right in front of you. It's not my interpretation or anything its written clearly. All you have to do is read and not blindly follow some Mullah ji.

No. U gotta tell me how U translate and then I am going to correct it if needed furthermore we can debate if U want...

regarding my 2nd post I clearly said The One who know more Quran than anybody in the humanity after Allah SBWT is Rasool PBUH and then his Sahabah and then his Auliya-e-Allah....U shold go and read their explanation about Hijab ...
whatever Rasool Allah explained and Sahabah said or practiced is enough evidence for us....we don't even need to follow any mullah any Qadyani any Mizai , any secular any zionists or anybodyelse...their words are enough.....There are various Hadiths books available on the market...I can give the name of an excellent book that will keep u safe from Jahil Mullahs/pplz.....U need to act smart...U shold be knowing all hadiths and the Riwayaats from Sahabah and shold be capable enough to teach the Jahil Mullahs , who are illeterate and don't give proper guidance to the pplz(cuz they getting paid to keep pplz as Jahilz most of the time by through foreign/enemies secret service networks or our Jahil pplz)...U know that there is no AAlim/scholar on the internet then what u gonna learn from them...and U can't even teach them if u ureself don't know anything.....

 

[Tiger Awan]

How can rapists be good Muslims? How can Jhootay bhi good Muslims? How can cheater, looters, killers, the corrupt all be good Muslim? All characteristics very commonly found in Pakistani Maulvis.

Musalmaan has to be a good human first your Islam is that a Musalmaan has to be a hijabi and namaazi first. It sounds more like Catholicism than Islam, where you can do whatever then go to the confession box and say "Forgive me father, for I have sinned" and sab maaf.

Challenge Muslims to be a good human being first.

So if you are committing some sins you must wear a bikini. Is that what you want to say???

At least they are doing some good. Who knows they may leave bad habits after some time. History is full of of such stories where bad people turned god because they kept doing those few good things that were there in their daily routine.

 

[kugga]

The word Zeenat is indeed used, but again that is personal interpretation. Zeenat literally means adornment, which is something worn over as a decoration.

You're interpreting this as the woman is ordered not to be beautiful in public, however its literally written not to wear adornments infront of anyone except your husbands or related men.

In the same Ayat at the end it says not to stamp your feet loud enough so that your zeenat can be heard by others. Signifying that it means you are not supposed to wear some sort of Ghungroo type ornament.

The word zeenat is used three times in the Ayat, don't selectively read.

---------- Post added at 04:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 PM ----------

I forgot to add, the first time the Ayat uses the word Zeenat it says do not show your zeenat except for what is apparent.

If face is not apparent then we have a very different definition of a the word human being. Hair to some women is apparent too.

Yes face is definitely an apparent thing it does not come under it.. also there are hadith I could not remeer right now which shows that at prophet's time there were muslim women who did not cover there faces and were not asked to cover their face.

AA: You are trying to peel away hundreds of years of zealous dogma and philosophical ossification, and this can only be done layer by layer before the scab is removed, and the golden traditions of Islam during its ascendance can be freed. Throwing verses back and forth is not going to achieve much, for it is easy to out-demagogue you, but you do have logic and reasoning on your side to counter it. Please be careful lest you be declared a murtad.

O intee muskil angraizee

The things Asim aquil mentioned above our a common debate even in madrassas but of course you wont know 'cause you don't live here

 

[forcetrip]

Mr Islam clearly tell you how to cover Hijab for women in Islam is to cover her whole body except her feet and hands and her clothes should not be see through or tight or like men or like kafirs these are things told by the PROPHET OF ALLAH SAW and ALLAH himself and they know what is perfect for women so Muslims have to follow them not some seculars who are afraid of Islam and by the way Islam is the fastest growing Religion in the world and 2/3 of those converts are women who fully cover themselves up

---------- Post added at 08:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22 AM ----------


What orders of ALLAH are his orders you can't challenge them and as for eyes women should cover her self up according to Islam and men should do what they are asked ALLAH knows better than you and everyone on this forum

You keep repeating yourself with no input like a parrot. Which is something that most of what this country is made off. You can use your brain, it was made by MY ALLAH to use common sense.

 

[kugga]

So if you are committing some sins you must wear a bikini. Is that what you want to say???

At least they are doing some good. Who knows they may leave bad habits after some time. History is full of of such stories where bad people turned god because they kept doing those few good things that were there in their daily routine.

Thats exactly my point two bads do not make one good asim.... I used to think like you sometimes before but then I realize that every single good deed is counted and has a better effect on yourself ... may be those burqa wearing women one day realize that wearing burqa is a good deed and that may change there whole life you never know.... If you are so consistent on your bad deeds why not be consistent on your good deeds as well.....
Yes we in Pakistan lie a lot, we have lot of social practices which are totally haram then does it mean that we should all stop all good deeds ???

 

[forcetrip]

Thats exactly my point two bads do not make one good asim.... I used to think like you sometimes before but then I realize that every single good deed is counted and has a better effect on yourself ... may be those burqa wearing women one day realize that wearing burqa is a good deed and that may change there whole life you never know.... If you are so consistent on your bad deeds why not be consistent on your good deeds as well.....
Yes we in Pakistan lie a lot, we have lot of social practices which are totally haram then does it mean that we should all stop all good deeds ???

The problem is what is Haram to you is Sawab to them. And both think they are correct to the point they are ready to end their lives for. You keep bringing up bikini's and such but not once did anyone say that a overall ban of burqa would be beneficial or attainable in THIS population.

 

[kugga]

The problem is what is Haram to you is Sawab to them. And both think they are correct to the point they are ready to end their lives for. You keep bringing up bikini's and such but not once did anyone say that a overall ban of burqa would be beneficial or attainable in THIS population.

something that is Haram is haram in Islam by them you mean whom ?? No I would not support ban on burqa 'cause it makes it difficult for a muslim lady to practice her religion....

 

[forcetrip]

something that is Haram is haram in Islam by them you mean whom ?? No I would not support ban on burqa 'cause it makes it difficult for a muslim lady to practice her religion....

By them I mean half this country who would say that fighting the enemy can be done by killing innocents because they go to heaven. You cannot ban the burqa but that is nothing to be proud of. That muslim lady cannot practice her religion because of men who cannot lower their gaze, giving modesty the meaning you are giving it today. Making her wear a burqa because of that reason is HARAM in my Islam. That is oppressing a weaker sex to the whims of a male dominated society. Cover yourself up for 2 days and feel what they go through everyday. Control your urges and look at women as you would look at men. All these problems will disappear.

 

[JonAsad]

By them I mean half this country who would say that fighting the enemy can be done by killing innocents because they go to heaven.

Do not exaggerate just to make a point-

 

[kugga]

By them I mean half this country who would say that fighting the enemy can be done by killing innocents because they go to heaven. You cannot ban the burqa but that is nothing to be proud of. That muslim lady cannot practice her religion because of men who cannot lower their gaze, giving modesty the meaning you are giving it today. Making her wear a burqa because of that reason is HARAM in my Islam. That is oppressing a weaker sex to the whims of a male dominated society. Cover yourself up for 2 days and feel what they go through everyday. Control your urges and look at women as you would look at men. All these problems will disappear.

I thought you knew a bit about human psychology but looks like you need some classes on psychology my friend. You cannot look at women like you at men, but ny ways lowering one's gaze is also compulsory like hijaab is compulsory... burqa is not the only option for hijab but then again I am against banning burqa if one women wants to wear burqa to fullfil her religious needs she should be allowed... and all world is a male dominated society women just do what men want them to do...
If you think the society in west is not male dominated then you should ponder a btit more on their society

 

[Awesome]

No. U gotta tell me how U translate and then I am going to correct it if needed furthermore we can debate if U want...

You are the one who can't read what is simply written. Tell me what have I translated anything wrong.

regarding my 2nd post I clearly said The One who know more Quran than anybody in the humanity after Allah SBWT is Rasool PBUH and then his Sahabah and then his Auliya-e-Allah....U shold go and read their explanation about Hijab ...

I don't know about you but I can't somehow travel back in time to the rasool's daur-e-hayaat and ask him to explain. I would imagine, he would ask me "Can't you read?"

Tell me how else would you translate the order for women "Cover your breasts". How? Do you need a Maulvi to tell you what breasts are? Do you need a Maulvi to tell you how to cover breasts? What do you not understand about it? Simple clear words are written, what are you going on about.

whatever Rasool Allah explained and Sahabah said or practiced is enough evidence for us....

You will find some very weak sources that will have the words "Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said to wear the niqaab". You will almost always find words where he used to words khimar and many others where the women of that time wore the niqaab, which also means that it was an Arab tradition and not ordered by Allah.

we don't even need to follow any mullah any Qadyani any Mizai , any secular any zionists or anybodyelse...their words are enough.....There are various Hadiths books available on the market...I can give the name of an excellent book that will keep u safe from Jahil Mullahs/pplz.....U need to act smart...U shold be knowing all hadiths and the Riwayaats from Sahabah and shold be capable enough to teach the Jahil Mullahs , who are illeterate and don't give proper guidance to the pplz(cuz they getting paid to keep pplz as Jahilz most of the time by through foreign/enemies secret service networks or our Jahil pplz)...U know that there is no AAlim/scholar on the internet then what u gonna learn from them...and U can't even teach them if u ureself don't know anything.....

Don't ignore the Quran first. First and foremost is the Quran. You don't need to follow anyone else if you just followed the Quran.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 AM ----------

So if you are committing some sins you must wear a bikini. Is that what you want to say???

At least they are doing some good. Who knows they may leave bad habits after some time. History is full of of such stories where bad people turned god because they kept doing those few good things that were there in their daily routine.

There is ZERO benefit if you're a horrible person and just wearing the hijab. In fact maybe some more sins for being a cheat and a fraud case in point Aamir Liaquat Hussain jese.

O Bahi, hukum toh yeh bhi hai, if your earnings are not halaal and you've defrauded people, then your Hajj is not jaiz, so that should be some sort of awakening to you that Hijab ka rona na ro, pehle Musalmaano ko theek toh karo.

 

[forcetrip]

I thought you knew a bit about human psychology but looks like you need some classes on psychology my friend. You cannot look at women like you at men, but ny ways lowering one's gaze is also compulsory like hijaab is compulsory... burqa is not the only option for hijab but then again I am against banning burqa if one women wants to wear burqa to fullfil her religious needs she should be allowed... and all world is a male dominated society women just do what men want them to do...
If you think the society in west is not male dominated then you should ponder a btit more on their society

You would need sme classes in how to not discriminate between human beings just because of their anatomy. Giving examples of men overpowering women does not make it right. The west did not let women vote some 50 years ago, they are still discriminated against at the work place. They have complaints that they are paid less than men. They have their problems because of the issues you mentioned about them being different. They fought and are still fighting against those injustices to this day. There are severe anti harassment laws in the work place as well as in their society. Hopefully you are familiar with those. That being a non muslim majority have these laws where women are allowed to roam the streets in bikinis according to people. Those are problems that we have to evolve to. You ignored the underlying cause that women are raising their voice against the injustices done to them by men the world over. The women here are putting on their face masks because they are not familiar with the underlying problem. Wearing a burqa and feeling comfortable about it is a disgrace to men. But again that is my personal opinion.

 

[Fracker]

You keep repeating yourself with no input like a parrot. Which is something that most of what this country is made off. You can use your brain, it was made by MY ALLAH to use common sense.

You really need to learn Quran and Hadith, before using your common sense. e.g. In Ghusal, it compulsory to put water in your mouth and nose, and through-out your body, while your common sense tells you to clean your dirty spots. (Hadith might covers that common sense fact but not the compulsion).

So while following islam, 1st come Quran and Hadith, and if something has been left then u can use ur common sense, else what quran says, "To You, Your Religion, To Me Mine".

 

[forcetrip]

You really need to learn Quran and Hadith, before using your common sense. e.g. In Ghusal, it compulsory to put water in your mouth and nose, and through-out your body, while your common sense tells you to clean your dirty spots. (Hadith might covers that common sense fact but not the compulsion).

So while following islam, 1st come Quran and Hadith, and if something has been left then u can use ur common sense, else what quran says, "To You, Your Religion, To Me Mine".

I put forward a huge article quoting the Quran about what needs to be covered. As have a lot of other people. If you keep repeating that the Quran is somehow not being clear then there is an obvious problem in common sense.