Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

[gambit]

Still i was expecting good geography skills from the average Americans since they are close cousins to the Europeans, it turns out very disappointing how stupid the majority has become.

Since when is knowledge of geography is even a good indicator of intelligence and education? When I was active duty and stationed at RAF Upper Heyford, we exercised with many NATO partners. I found many Britons, Frenchmen, Germans, Turks, and Italians to have their versions of the American 'redneck'. Sure, they may know that there is a 'United States of America' and that it is in the Western Hemisphere, but that is about it. I met plenty of neo Nazis in England, Germany, and Italy. How does knowledge of geography made them better human beings?

 

[OIO]

Few western European neighbors did benefit from colonizing countries including our French neighbor ruling Vietnam. And since the ancestors of the earlier settlers of America are also from these western European countries it should not be surprising that Americans who are close cousins of our western European neighbors have been involved in loads of wars since the 18th century. Vietnam War did turn out unfavorable for the American rulers having lost a valuable colony as many Vietnamese did perish under the merciless killing by Americans. Still i was expecting good geography skills from the average Americans since they are close cousins to the Europeans, it turns out very disappointing how stupid the majority has become.

American are lack of serious culture, they are dedicated to drugs and anti intellectualism in name of neo liberalism.

 

[riscol]

Geography should be a relevant part of intelligence and education or how else would Americans know whether they have bombed the right country for the next war? But that's not an issue, there shall always be a minority Americans who knows geography well enough as they have set their eyes on future targets, lets say Vietnam War 2.0

 

[gambit]

Geography should be a relevant part of intelligence and education or how else would Americans know whether they have bombed the right country for the next war? But that's not an issue, there shall always be a minority Americans who knows geography well enough as they have set their eyes on future targets, lets say Vietnam War 2.0

Then there is no need for every American to be knowledgeable about geography. Only a few like me will suffice. After all, continental US is quite immune from invasion so there is no need for widespread knowledge about the rest of the world, does it?

Face it, buddy. You are nothing but a Eurosnob clinging on to anything that would give you a temporary high of being 'superior' to Americans. In truth, you people are no more intelligent, wiser, or beautiful. Geography is nothing but an intellectual lollipop: full of sugar but nutritionally empty. A Eurosnob using an American invention to sneer at Americans. The irony is as delicious as a French pastry.

 

[Rusty]

Modern Western and Russian technology is also stolen mostly from Germany

I mean, Germany lost the war and it's scientists were plucked by the US and USSR, so I would not say it was stolen per say.

 

[BL33D]

So essentially, the Chinese and their suck-ups cannot argue against the technical arguments in the article. In the usual desperation, race inevitably brought in to distract.

This has been an interesting read. I dont know why people dont counter your technical points but instead chose to do Ad Hominem attacks. Almost as if they are talking out of their butts on the subject matter and would rather try to derail to hide their inadequate knowledge. Keep providing some facts and logic to the discussions.

 

[riscol]

A few Americans including one Vietnamese refugee knowing about geography would indeed suffix turning Vietnam into another Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria. Just remember to cheer for it the next your adopted country is making sure Vietnam is engulfed in flames again. We Europeans have real culture and are morally better (the ones who did not turn other countries into colonies). The few western ones who did are also the ones you are serving as you are calling them papa who gave you a home after they wrecked it now that's what i call irony.

 

[gambit]

I dont know why people dont counter your technical points but instead chose to do Ad Hominem attacks. Almost as if they are talking out of their butts on the subject matter and would rather try to derail to hide

Of course they are talking out of their anal orifices. Ignorance and inexperience are no barriers in the service of China. In fact, on Internet forums, ignorance and inexperience in the service of China are assets. You get a lot of 'Thanks' from the Chinese members who are equally ignorant and inexperience as you are.

(Of course, I do not mean YOU personally)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/buil...-of-hacking-report-says.639449/#post-11833792
And here you're saying that hacking into Boeing and Airbus factories and databases is easier for China than to reverse engineer one of thousands the jetliners in their possession... how logical is that?

Aviation is not a static industry. Every design have margins for changes, usually for the good, and sometimes towards disaster like the Boeing 737 Max fiasco. Finding out where and how your competitors gone wrong saves you a lot of time and money. And if you can get that information thru industrial espionage, more power to you. After all, how many countries in the world can make an aircraft? You need every advantage you can get your hands on.

Take this Airbus wing flex testing, for example...

How valuable would the testing data be on the black market? Same goes for Boeing and their wing flex testing. If COMAC and China does not commit to industrial espionage, COMAC will never gain market shares except only in China and under the Chinese government forcing Chinese airlines to buy only Chinese aircrafts. It does not matter the complexity of such 'hacking' into Boeing and Airbus. It is something that MUST be done. The comment in that post above was truly idiotic.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Of course they are talking out of their anal orifices. Ignorance and inexperience are no barriers in the service of China. In fact, on Internet forums, ignorance and inexperience in the service of China are assets. You get a lot of 'Thanks' from the Chinese members who are equally ignorant and inexperience as you are.

(Of course, I do not mean YOU personally)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/buil...-of-hacking-report-says.639449/#post-11833792
And here you're saying that hacking into Boeing and Airbus factories and databases is easier for China than to reverse engineer one of thousands the jetliners in their possession... how logical is that?

Aviation is not a static industry. Every design have margins for changes, usually for the good, and sometimes towards disaster like the Boeing 737 Max fiasco. Finding out where and how your competitors gone wrong saves you a lot of time and money. And if you can get that information thru industrial espionage, more power to you. After all, how many countries in the world can make an aircraft? You need every advantage you can get your hands on.

Take this Airbus wing flex testing, for example...

How valuable would the testing data be on the black market? Same goes for Boeing and their wing flex testing. If COMAC and China does not commit to industrial espionage, COMAC will never gain market shares except only in China and under the Chinese government forcing Chinese airlines to buy only Chinese aircrafts. It does not matter the complexity of such 'hacking' into Boeing and Airbus. It is something that MUST be done. The comment in that post above was truly idiotic.

All I can see is: YOU MUST

 

[BL33D]

Of course they are talking out of their anal orifices. Ignorance and inexperience are no barriers in the service of China. In fact, on Internet forums, ignorance and inexperience in the service of China are assets. You get a lot of 'Thanks' from the Chinese members who are equally ignorant and inexperience as you are.

(Of course, I do not mean YOU personally)

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/buil...-of-hacking-report-says.639449/#post-11833792
And here you're saying that hacking into Boeing and Airbus factories and databases is easier for China than to reverse engineer one of thousands the jetliners in their possession... how logical is that?

Aviation is not a static industry. Every design have margins for changes, usually for the good, and sometimes towards disaster like the Boeing 737 Max fiasco. Finding out where and how your competitors gone wrong saves you a lot of time and money. And if you can get that information thru industrial espionage, more power to you. After all, how many countries in the world can make an aircraft? You need every advantage you can get your hands on.

Take this Airbus wing flex testing, for example...

How valuable would the testing data be on the black market? Same goes for Boeing and their wing flex testing. If COMAC and China does not commit to industrial espionage, COMAC will never gain market shares except only in China and under the Chinese government forcing Chinese airlines to buy only Chinese aircrafts. It does not matter the complexity of such 'hacking' into Boeing and Airbus. It is something that MUST be done. The comment in that post above was truly idiotic.

From my limited understanding I would say, there is a lot of rigorous testing and dimensions and specs are decided by taking in a lot of factors like aerodynamics, stress tests, thermals etc. Just copy pasting one part or design will create an imbalance as the other dimensions of your plane will definitely be different.
Unless you just want to copy paste the whole plane which makes it the same plane and not something you made.
And it is also arrogant to believe that such huge companies do not forsee the risks of sellin their IP to other countries without having some assurance mechanisms in place. An outright theft of their IP can put stricter controls or all total companies might shun selling their products as in the case of Google. IP are much more valuable than short term sales.

 

[gambit]

From my limited understanding I would say, there is a lot of rigorous testing and dimensions and specs are decided by taking in a lot of factors like aerodynamics, stress tests, thermals etc. Just copy pasting one part or design will create an imbalance as the other dimensions of your plane will definitely be different.
Unless you just want to copy paste the whole plane which makes it the same plane and not something you made.
And it is also arrogant to believe that such huge companies do not forsee the risks of sellin their IP to other countries without having some assurance mechanisms in place. An outright theft of their IP can put stricter controls or all total companies might shun selling their products as in the case of Google. IP are much more valuable than short term sales.

Test data are extremely valuable. The fools in this thread do not know it because they have no experience in R/D or manufacturing to start, let alone something esoteric like aviation. Like I said, ignorance and inexperience are valuable in the service of China.

When you test a process, you are saying: At this point, I am pausing the process to verify estimated conclusions.

The more you tests, the finer your data points, but the downside is the longer R/D time which translate to higher cost. So there has to be a balance and that balance is also valuable knowledge. If I manage to steal your entire testing results of a 3000 psi hydraulic actuator and see daily test increments. That could mean you are working on something very fine grain. Stopping and restarting a process are not easy. If I see a position transducer in the schematic, I can guess that you are testing something that moves in micrometers and possibly in the millivolts which means your avionics are better than mine. The implications are enormous.

So to say that China do not need to hack Boeing and Airbus were just downright stupid.