Joshi
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Oh really!?
Then your Govt. is really not sane in banning this organization in Pakistan.
British Islamists plot against Pakistan - Times Online
British Islamists plot against Pakistan
- Thread starter Gabbar
- Start date
Oh really!?
Then your Govt. is really not sane in banning this organization in Pakistan.
PeaceForAll
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London: An Islamic militant group based in Britain plans to overthrow the Pakistani government, a British media report said on Sunday.
Followers of the fundamentalist group Hizb ut-Tahrir have called for a "bloodless military coup" in Islamabad and the creation of a caliphate in which strict Islamic laws would be rigorously enforced, The Sunday Times reported.
The group is believed to have been set up in Pakistan in the early 1990s by Imtiaz Malik, a British-born Pakistani who may still be secretly operating as its leader in the country.
Members of the group, which is banned in Pakistan and calls itself the Liberation party in Britain, said last week that it planned to make Pakistan a base to spread Islamic rule across the world.
"Pakistan was neglected and ignored until it had a nuclear bomb and then the global leaders realised it would be a good strategic base for the caliphate," said Maajid Nawaz, one of the organisation's pioneers in Pakistan, who has since renounced the group.
Nawaz claimed at least 10 British activists were planted in each of Pakistan's main cities. "The traffic has been increasing ever since and people are always going back and forth (to the UK)," he added.
The newspaper also obtained the names of a dozen British Hizb ut-Tahrir activists based in Lahore and Karachi, or who move regularly between Britain and Pakistan.
Tayyib Muqeem, an English teacher from Stoke-on-Trent, said he moved to Lahore to persuade Pakistanis to join the movement.
He said the organisation's aim was to subject Muslim and western countries to Islamic rule under sharia law - "by force" if necessary. In a caliphate, "every woman would have to cover up", adultery would be punished by stoning to death and thieves' hands would be chopped off, he added.
Muqeem said Islamic rule would be spread through "indoctrination" and by "military means" if non-Muslim countries refused to bow to it and "waging war" would be part of the caliphate's foreign policy. One of the strategy of the group in Pakistan is to influence military officers, he said.
Shahzad Sheikh, a Pakistani recruit and the group's official spokesman in Karachi, said that the group plans to persuade the army to instigate a "bloodless coup" against the present government which he described as "worse than the Taliban".
"It is the military who hold the power (in Pakistan) and we are asking them to give their allegiance to Hizb ut-Tahrir," he said. "I can't explain to you in detail how we are trying to influence the military... We never disclose our methodology of change. You may say it is a coup."
Four army officers were arrested in 2003 in Pakistan on suspicion of being linked to extremist groups. A Hizb ut-Tahrir insider claimed that they were recruited by the organisation's "Pakistan team" while training at Sandhurst.
====================================================
My opinions:
1) Pakistan should definitely take its place in the muslim world as its in the forefront of power both militarily and economically (how many muslim countries have such economies without oil??)
2) But the power center should concentrate on modern islam and not the stringent taliban style Islam.
3) How come these people living in UK want Pakistan to be in such a governance? Why dont they come back and try fighting in elections???
By the way, I do have doubts on the credibility of the news reported - its from Sify.com.
Link :British Islamists plan coup in Pakistan: Report
Followers of the fundamentalist group Hizb ut-Tahrir have called for a "bloodless military coup" in Islamabad and the creation of a caliphate in which strict Islamic laws would be rigorously enforced, The Sunday Times reported.
The group is believed to have been set up in Pakistan in the early 1990s by Imtiaz Malik, a British-born Pakistani who may still be secretly operating as its leader in the country.
Members of the group, which is banned in Pakistan and calls itself the Liberation party in Britain, said last week that it planned to make Pakistan a base to spread Islamic rule across the world.
"Pakistan was neglected and ignored until it had a nuclear bomb and then the global leaders realised it would be a good strategic base for the caliphate," said Maajid Nawaz, one of the organisation's pioneers in Pakistan, who has since renounced the group.
Nawaz claimed at least 10 British activists were planted in each of Pakistan's main cities. "The traffic has been increasing ever since and people are always going back and forth (to the UK)," he added.
The newspaper also obtained the names of a dozen British Hizb ut-Tahrir activists based in Lahore and Karachi, or who move regularly between Britain and Pakistan.
Tayyib Muqeem, an English teacher from Stoke-on-Trent, said he moved to Lahore to persuade Pakistanis to join the movement.
He said the organisation's aim was to subject Muslim and western countries to Islamic rule under sharia law - "by force" if necessary. In a caliphate, "every woman would have to cover up", adultery would be punished by stoning to death and thieves' hands would be chopped off, he added.
Muqeem said Islamic rule would be spread through "indoctrination" and by "military means" if non-Muslim countries refused to bow to it and "waging war" would be part of the caliphate's foreign policy. One of the strategy of the group in Pakistan is to influence military officers, he said.
Shahzad Sheikh, a Pakistani recruit and the group's official spokesman in Karachi, said that the group plans to persuade the army to instigate a "bloodless coup" against the present government which he described as "worse than the Taliban".
"It is the military who hold the power (in Pakistan) and we are asking them to give their allegiance to Hizb ut-Tahrir," he said. "I can't explain to you in detail how we are trying to influence the military... We never disclose our methodology of change. You may say it is a coup."
Four army officers were arrested in 2003 in Pakistan on suspicion of being linked to extremist groups. A Hizb ut-Tahrir insider claimed that they were recruited by the organisation's "Pakistan team" while training at Sandhurst.
====================================================
My opinions:
1) Pakistan should definitely take its place in the muslim world as its in the forefront of power both militarily and economically (how many muslim countries have such economies without oil??)
2) But the power center should concentrate on modern islam and not the stringent taliban style Islam.
3) How come these people living in UK want Pakistan to be in such a governance? Why dont they come back and try fighting in elections???
By the way, I do have doubts on the credibility of the news reported - its from Sify.com.
Link :British Islamists plan coup in Pakistan: Report
DarkStar
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The Hizbu Tahreer is a joke...
I still remember them, when I became a supporter of the group for a little while...
We were called the KHilafah boys....There was a big sticker campaign all over London, which read "The Khilafah Is coming".
most of my non muslim friends thought this was some new type of gang...
They usually targetted the university/college crowd, and got into campus student unions.
They make their impression through their aggressive stance, and uncompromising speech. Base their arguments on greek logic, and try to talk 'intellectually' about how islam is an 'ideology'.
They have a skewed view of history...even an ignorance of history. Their pronouncements can be weird sometimes.
I still remember being told it is ok to watch pronography, as long as the intention is not to watch it with evil desire. They even conjured up a hadeeth to prove this.
Umar Bakri Muhammad was the leader of the HT(as we called it) in those days, before he left the group, and joined Al Muhajiroon...which has since been disbanded, and he fled the country.
They are an offshoot of Ikhwanul muslimeen, and claim to posthomously follow Taqiuddin an Nabhani,a Syrian Ikhwani originally from Palestine, i think. However, the group did not exist in Syria, and no one is aware who first propogated this group in the UK, as it suddenly appeared in campuses in the early 90's.
Former members of HT have suspected that the group was in itself a creation of the British INteliigence services, and there is evidence of at least some collusion between them. HT have never threatened Britain, nor have the British authorities ever done anything to stop, hinder, or dissuade this group.
Apart from allowing to watch pornography, in my day, the group also did not keep beards, nor the islamic dress code. They were very sharp dressers, usually wearing black coats, shades and gloves. Looking at an HT member, or going to one of their 'circles' one would think that you're attending a convention of the Jehovas Witnesses. Not a beard in sight. Not sure if that has changed recently.
I still remember them, when I became a supporter of the group for a little while...
We were called the KHilafah boys....There was a big sticker campaign all over London, which read "The Khilafah Is coming".
most of my non muslim friends thought this was some new type of gang...
They usually targetted the university/college crowd, and got into campus student unions.
They make their impression through their aggressive stance, and uncompromising speech. Base their arguments on greek logic, and try to talk 'intellectually' about how islam is an 'ideology'.
They have a skewed view of history...even an ignorance of history. Their pronouncements can be weird sometimes.
I still remember being told it is ok to watch pronography, as long as the intention is not to watch it with evil desire. They even conjured up a hadeeth to prove this.
Umar Bakri Muhammad was the leader of the HT(as we called it) in those days, before he left the group, and joined Al Muhajiroon...which has since been disbanded, and he fled the country.
They are an offshoot of Ikhwanul muslimeen, and claim to posthomously follow Taqiuddin an Nabhani,a Syrian Ikhwani originally from Palestine, i think. However, the group did not exist in Syria, and no one is aware who first propogated this group in the UK, as it suddenly appeared in campuses in the early 90's.
Former members of HT have suspected that the group was in itself a creation of the British INteliigence services, and there is evidence of at least some collusion between them. HT have never threatened Britain, nor have the British authorities ever done anything to stop, hinder, or dissuade this group.
Apart from allowing to watch pornography, in my day, the group also did not keep beards, nor the islamic dress code. They were very sharp dressers, usually wearing black coats, shades and gloves. Looking at an HT member, or going to one of their 'circles' one would think that you're attending a convention of the Jehovas Witnesses. Not a beard in sight. Not sure if that has changed recently.
PeaceForAll
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interesteing that they want to keep "all women covered" while its ok for men to shave off the beards and even watch pornography (all woman uncovered!) such hypocrisy!
TalibanSwatter
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Wahhabism is a regressive tribal doctrine promoted by the Al Sauds in alliance with Wahhabi clergy. Their collusion with the British against the Ottoman Caliphate around the time of the first World War is known to all. After all, the Al Saud family was a puppet regime installed by the British to rule Hijaz that was not so coincidentally renamed as 'Saudi' Arabia.
DarkStar
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The HT is vehemently anti-'Wahabi'. Most of their polemics were against what they called 'The literalists', code word for Salafis.
Islam is not an ism, like Communism, Socialism, Protestanism, etc. To make of Islam, which is a way of life, a political ideology which can be debated and refuted is a disservice to Islam and muslims.
None of the above distinguished personalities took the label of Islamist for themsleves.
Political Islamism is a creation of the early twentieth century, which has its roots in the disenfranchisement and humiliation felt and suffered by muslims due to the abolition of the Islamic Caliphate by Mustafa Kamal Pasha 'Ata Turk' in 1924.
These new Islamists sook to bring back the lost Golden Age of Islam, and devised a political Ideology, based upon Western reformed political thought, marxism, revolutionist ideoligies, gave them an Islamic context and syntax, believing that this was the best way for the Muslims to repeat the political successes of the past. The crux of their message was that all the ills of the muslims around the world was due to their being the lack of a true Islamic State, and that the obligation to work to establish such a State was paramount to all other duties and obligations. Their intention was good, but their method has proven to be both unsucessful and unIslamic.
Last edited:
Comet
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Believe me it hasn't changed much by now.
They sort of preach that Music is OK. You wont find much of beards and dresscode. They dress and talk like any one else.
No distinction between a member of Hizb and any other person.
Most importantly, when I attended on of their seminars, they didn't left the dabate at the time of prayers and missed Jama'at .
Since then I have high doubts about there origins.
I personally feel that Hizb is made by some intelligence agencies in order to gather all the people who want to have Caliphate and put them on a path where there is no destnation.
Wednesday, 11 October 2006
Our Method
Hizb ut-Tahrir adopts the methodology employed by the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) when he established the first Islamic State in Madinah. The Prophet Muhammad limited his struggle for the establishment of the Islamic State to intellectual and political work. He established this Islamic state without resorting to violence. He worked to mobilise public opinion in favour of Islam and endeavoured to sway the political and intellectual elites of the time. Despite the persecution and boycott of the Prophet Muhammad and the early Muslims, they never resorted to violence.
The party is therefore proactive in disseminating the Islamic intellectual and political thoughts widely in Muslim societies so as to challenge the existing status quo that exists there.
The party presents Islam as a comprehensive way of life that is capable of managing the affairs of state and society. The party also expresses its views on political events and analyses them from an Islamic perspective.
The party disseminates its thoughts through discussion with the masses, study circles, lectures, seminars, leaflet distribution, publishing books and magazines and via the Internet. We encourage people to attend our demonstrations, marches and vigils.
Does Hizb ut-Tahrir advocate violence?
Hizb-ut-Tahrir is convinced that the change we seek must start in the minds of people and we do not accept for people or societies to be forced to change by violence and terror. Consequently, Hizb ut-Tahrir does not advocate or engage in violence. The party strictly adheres to Islamic law in all aspects of its work. It is an Islamic intellectual and political entity that seeks to change people?s thoughts through intelligent discussion and debate. We consider that Islamic law forbids violence or armed struggle against the regime as a method to re-establish the Islamic State.
Numerous articles produced by a variety of media outlets including Reuters, Itar-Tass, Pravda, AFP, AlHayat, AP and RFERL to name just a few, have clearly pointed out that Hizb ut-Tahrir is a non-violent organisation that has ruled out armed struggle or violence as part of its methodology.
Some quotes include:
Hizb ut-Tahrir is a completely non-violent organisation." [Craig Murray, the ex-British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Al-Jazeera, 17/5/05]
"it advocates the restoration of the Islamic caliphate. It differs from jihadi groups which share this objective in abstaining from violent activity." [International Crisis Group, 2/3/05]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir [HT] is an independent political party that is active in many countries across the world. HT's activities centre on intellectual reasoning, logic arguments and political lobbying. The party adheres to the Islamic Shariah law in all aspects of its work. It considers violence or armed struggle against the regime, as a method to re-establish the Islamic State, a violation of the Islamic Shariah." [Restricted Home Office Documents 19/8/03, Released to Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain 1/6/05 under FOI Act]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir - Lines to take if extensive coverage is given in the media: Freedom of thought and speech key element of our society. Our tradition that there is a place for those who disagree with the way we do things ? unless they espouse violence as a way to achieve their ends." [Restricted Home Office Documents 19/8/03, Released to Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain 1/6/05 under FOI Act]
"We have yet to see convincing evidence that Hizb ut-Tahrir as an organisation advocates violence or terrorism. Nor are we aware of any co-operation between it and Al Qaeda." [UK FCO Minister Bill Rammell, Hansard, 19/4/04]
"It will be impossible to see Hizb ut-Tahrir as a terrorist organisation. If Hizb ut-Tahrir resorts to violence then it can be described as a terrorist organisation. Further more Hizb ut-Tahrir, as it stands, cannot be proscribed as a terrorist organisation." [Verdict Turkish Second State Security Court, 13/4/04]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir does not advocate a violent overthrow of Muslim regimes... Instead HT believes in winning over mass support, believing that one day these supporters will rise up in peaceful demonstrations and overthrow the regimes of Central Asia." [Ahmed Rashid, Jihad: the Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir quite explicitly disavows violence as its means for achieving power." [John Schoeberlein, Director of Harvard University?s Central Asia program]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir has shown dissatisfaction on the policies of the [Pakistan] government which is the right of each and every citizen?I am unable to understand as to how distribution of these pamphlets in the general public was termed as terrorism or sectarianism.? [Multan Bench, Lahore High Court, March 2005]
"Ata Abu Rushta, spokesperson for the Hizb ut-Tahrir, Liberation Party in Jordan, a party seeking to re-establish the Islamic Caliphate, was sentenced to three years' imprisonment in February by the State Security Court for lese-majesty under Article 195(1) of the Penal Code in connection with an interview he had given to the newspaper al-Hiwar. The statements on which the charges were based did not advocate violence." [Amnesty International Report, 1997]
Is Hizb ut-Tahrir extremist?
Extremist groups exploit peoples fears and present disingenuous arguments that are based upon weak and erroneous thoughts. We do not hide behind polemics and slogans we believe the strength of our thoughts is evident in our literature. Our members have discussed and debated with some of the best thinkers in the world because we believe the only way forward for humankind is to engage in global debate and discussion. We believe it is time to do away with the old labels of extremist and moderate and believe it is possible for people who hold dissimilar and disparate views to engage in rational dialogue.
Our Method
Hizb ut-Tahrir adopts the methodology employed by the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) when he established the first Islamic State in Madinah. The Prophet Muhammad limited his struggle for the establishment of the Islamic State to intellectual and political work. He established this Islamic state without resorting to violence. He worked to mobilise public opinion in favour of Islam and endeavoured to sway the political and intellectual elites of the time. Despite the persecution and boycott of the Prophet Muhammad and the early Muslims, they never resorted to violence.
The party is therefore proactive in disseminating the Islamic intellectual and political thoughts widely in Muslim societies so as to challenge the existing status quo that exists there.
The party presents Islam as a comprehensive way of life that is capable of managing the affairs of state and society. The party also expresses its views on political events and analyses them from an Islamic perspective.
The party disseminates its thoughts through discussion with the masses, study circles, lectures, seminars, leaflet distribution, publishing books and magazines and via the Internet. We encourage people to attend our demonstrations, marches and vigils.
Does Hizb ut-Tahrir advocate violence?
Hizb-ut-Tahrir is convinced that the change we seek must start in the minds of people and we do not accept for people or societies to be forced to change by violence and terror. Consequently, Hizb ut-Tahrir does not advocate or engage in violence. The party strictly adheres to Islamic law in all aspects of its work. It is an Islamic intellectual and political entity that seeks to change people?s thoughts through intelligent discussion and debate. We consider that Islamic law forbids violence or armed struggle against the regime as a method to re-establish the Islamic State.
Numerous articles produced by a variety of media outlets including Reuters, Itar-Tass, Pravda, AFP, AlHayat, AP and RFERL to name just a few, have clearly pointed out that Hizb ut-Tahrir is a non-violent organisation that has ruled out armed struggle or violence as part of its methodology.
Some quotes include:
Hizb ut-Tahrir is a completely non-violent organisation." [Craig Murray, the ex-British ambassador to Uzbekistan, Al-Jazeera, 17/5/05]
"it advocates the restoration of the Islamic caliphate. It differs from jihadi groups which share this objective in abstaining from violent activity." [International Crisis Group, 2/3/05]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir [HT] is an independent political party that is active in many countries across the world. HT's activities centre on intellectual reasoning, logic arguments and political lobbying. The party adheres to the Islamic Shariah law in all aspects of its work. It considers violence or armed struggle against the regime, as a method to re-establish the Islamic State, a violation of the Islamic Shariah." [Restricted Home Office Documents 19/8/03, Released to Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain 1/6/05 under FOI Act]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir - Lines to take if extensive coverage is given in the media: Freedom of thought and speech key element of our society. Our tradition that there is a place for those who disagree with the way we do things ? unless they espouse violence as a way to achieve their ends." [Restricted Home Office Documents 19/8/03, Released to Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain 1/6/05 under FOI Act]
"We have yet to see convincing evidence that Hizb ut-Tahrir as an organisation advocates violence or terrorism. Nor are we aware of any co-operation between it and Al Qaeda." [UK FCO Minister Bill Rammell, Hansard, 19/4/04]
"It will be impossible to see Hizb ut-Tahrir as a terrorist organisation. If Hizb ut-Tahrir resorts to violence then it can be described as a terrorist organisation. Further more Hizb ut-Tahrir, as it stands, cannot be proscribed as a terrorist organisation." [Verdict Turkish Second State Security Court, 13/4/04]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir does not advocate a violent overthrow of Muslim regimes... Instead HT believes in winning over mass support, believing that one day these supporters will rise up in peaceful demonstrations and overthrow the regimes of Central Asia." [Ahmed Rashid, Jihad: the Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir quite explicitly disavows violence as its means for achieving power." [John Schoeberlein, Director of Harvard University?s Central Asia program]
"Hizb ut-Tahrir has shown dissatisfaction on the policies of the [Pakistan] government which is the right of each and every citizen?I am unable to understand as to how distribution of these pamphlets in the general public was termed as terrorism or sectarianism.? [Multan Bench, Lahore High Court, March 2005]
"Ata Abu Rushta, spokesperson for the Hizb ut-Tahrir, Liberation Party in Jordan, a party seeking to re-establish the Islamic Caliphate, was sentenced to three years' imprisonment in February by the State Security Court for lese-majesty under Article 195(1) of the Penal Code in connection with an interview he had given to the newspaper al-Hiwar. The statements on which the charges were based did not advocate violence." [Amnesty International Report, 1997]
Is Hizb ut-Tahrir extremist?
Extremist groups exploit peoples fears and present disingenuous arguments that are based upon weak and erroneous thoughts. We do not hide behind polemics and slogans we believe the strength of our thoughts is evident in our literature. Our members have discussed and debated with some of the best thinkers in the world because we believe the only way forward for humankind is to engage in global debate and discussion. We believe it is time to do away with the old labels of extremist and moderate and believe it is possible for people who hold dissimilar and disparate views to engage in rational dialogue.
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