What's new

Britain bans Indian Muslim preacher

Homosexuality is a natural behavior, only religious scriptures deny it been natural coz of their own homophobic & lesbophobic attitude, if religious people believe that God made all animals on the face of planet then they gotta accept that homosexuality is natural in many species of animals

Even without bringing religion into the question I still find Homosexuality to be disgusting(and disgusting is an understatement), It seems completely unnatural, It was not meant for men to be drawn towards men and women towards other women, if that had been the case we would have evolved another system of reproduction, so my religion doesn't say it but science and common sense does, Homosexuality is not a natural phenomenon.
 
.
That is your belief and I sincerely hope you are rewarded well for your doings in your Heaven or Hell. The word "your" is the important word in this discussion. Like someone mentioned above trying to achieve something out a religious discussion is by far impossible. Read and enlighten yourselves and try not to force opinions on others without factual evidence. It would work well with people that would rather fulfill themselves with one "Book", doesn't work too well on people who are in habit of answering their own tough questions.

Exactly. One of the teachings in the Quran is tolerance. I'm tolerant of homosexual people, but this does not mean i have to agree with homosexual actions.

I don't think anyone should force their beliefs down someone's throat. The message is out there, it's up to individuals to accept what's right and what's wrong

[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
 
.
Even without bringing religion into the question I still find Homosexuality to be disgusting

While I share this revulsion in terms of gut reaction, why do you think you can pass judgment and deem it unnatural? which it clearly isn't as many people convincingly showed, it has always been around and is present in the animal kingdom as well. And we are, after all, just animals with large brains.

Their is a similar gut reaction that many people have towards foreigners, but that doesn't make it right, does it? We have to overcome these primitive prejudices. I'm not saying you should hang out with gay people (I'm not keen on that either) just leave them alone and don't demonize their nature.

I mean, I think BDSM is pretty crazy, but each his own. Whatever happens between two consenting adults is non of our, or anyone business, especially not Priests or Imams who have no clue about sex anyhow.
 
. .
While I share this revulsion in terms of gut reaction, why do you think you can pass judgment and deem it unnatural? which it clearly isn't as many people convincingly showed, it has always been around and is present in the animal kingdom as well. And we are, after all, just animals with large brains.

Their is a similar gut reaction that many people have towards foreigners, but that doesn't make it right, does it? We have to overcome these primitive prejudices. I'm not saying you should hang out with gay people (I'm not keen on that either) just leave them alone and don't demonize their nature.

I mean, I think BDSM is pretty crazy, but each his own. Whatever happens between two consenting adults is non of our, or anyone business, especially not Priests or Imams who have no clue about sex anyhow.

I don't demonize them or anything, neither do I hate them, I just don't agree with their practices that's all. They have the freedom to spend their life with anyone they choose and I have no authority to dictate to them whom they may spend it with.

P.S: I don't find foreigners to be gross or sickening at all, in fact I kinda like being around foreigners, you can learn so much about their country and culture from them.
I just noticed you are German ! I tried very hard to learn German, couldn't get around it, words are too long and grammar too difficult, my father speaks perfect German but even he thinks I'm a lost cause as far as German is concerned. By the time your done saying hello in German, it's already time to say good bye...............;)
No offence, I was just kidding about the last part, It's a beautiful language and I still hope I will master it someday, until that day comes, there's always Spanish !
 
Last edited:
. .
Luckily I recently heard of a violent Atheist who met his end, Mr. Eugène Terre'Blanche.

As every sane person would tell you, twisting facts is a crime. The man was a white supremacist and no humanist believes in superiority of one race, creed, colour over another. Political ideologies have led to genocides but not in the name of converting others, spreading religion or seeking divine grace. Hate-mongers do not use irreligion to spread their beliefs as well. Do not use such twisted examples that do not have any attachment to dis-belief in any way.

The main thing though is that he wasn't an atheist (or a dis-believer). He belonged to a reformist Protestant Church called the Afrikaanse Protestantse Kerk.

Like I said, Atheists are people too, we have the same instincts, DNA and everything. Just stopping to believe in God does not change them, in fact it removes boundaries one would be keen to observe if he was a believer, I choose not to kill my neighbour for his property out of fear of God's wrath, I don't go anywhere near his wife because I know God is watching. If I don't believe in God, who is to stop me from carrying out these shameful acts ? I could easily get with his wife in the cover of the night and I can kill him, get rid of his body in the nearest convenient water body, with nobody knowing it was me.

Does this mean that you would kill your neighbour had there been no divine retribution for such an act? Of course you would not. That is the essence of reasoned humanity.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" existed centuries before Christianity and all the basics of human morality had been discussed in detail in the deity-less ancient China.

Belief in God is very important for man, without it, this world would fall into a chaotic spiral from which it would never be able to recover, religion acts as a counter weight to our animal instincts. With no counter weight, where would we stand ?

For people who think that only a divine authority's ruling stops them from killing their neighbour, raping a child or committing all other things that we consider immoral, there is perhaps nothing that can stop them. If indeed religion is the only thing stopping man from committing sins, then such men should probably not be allowed to roam free for they have no reason other than divine wrath to not commit their violence.

People who use reason, logic and thought to establish morals and ethics are far better for they treat others equally, don't murder or rape without the fear of eternal hellfire but as necessary humane behaviours. So without believing in being gifted eternally for their good deeds they still treat others well, then they are in many ways better than their counterparts who don't do these just because they'll burn in hell otherwise.

Morality without faith is something that most scholars don't talk about today for it has been established over centuries through debate and dissent and examples of ancient China and modern examples of secular laws that do not attach ethics to a deity. The necessity of religion to maintain order is the weakest of all arguments that can be used to justify its presence or the positive effects it has in society.

For a very brief survey of this argument read Hauser :- http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~mnkylab/publications/recent/HauserSingerMoralRelig05.pdf

Or read this book if you have time :- Can we be good without God?: a ... - Google Books

After reading these, perhaps you will not raise this argument. There are thousands of other valid arguments though.

Debate on religion is prevented on PDF. A philosophical argument or a historical discussion on religion won't be stopped though. If we can keep this civilized and argue on this issue on philosophical grounds, then it would be okay otherwise I'll have to close the thread.
 
.
I don't demonize them or anything, neither do I hate them, I just don't agree with their practices that's all. They have the freedom to spend their life with anyone they choose and I have no authority to dictate to them whom they may spend it with.

Well than we are almost in agreement, I guess. :) I wonder if you think they burn in hell, though and if you do, do you think that is just?

P.S: I don't find foreigners to be gross or sickening at all, in fact I kinda like being around foreigners, you can learn so much about their country and culture from them.

I wasn't insinuating that you do, just making a comparison about "gut reactions" and prejudices. Yeah I like that too, that is why I try to travel as much as possible.

I just noticed you are German ! I tried very hard to learn German, couldn't get around it, words are too long and grammar too difficult, my father speaks perfect German but even he thinks I'm a lost cause as far as German is concerned. By the time your done saying hello in German, it's already time to say good bye...............;)

Hehe yeah we have a tendency to use long compound words like 'Schiffahrtsgesellschaftsvorsitzender' for example ;) 'Hello' is just 'Hallo' in German though ;P

I think it is very hard for most people to learn languages from another language family. I probably would have an equally hard time learning Urdu or Pashto. But who knows maybe one day we learn each others language, until then English will do fine. I think it is pretty impressive how multilingual most of you people in South-East Asia are anyway. How did you father study German? Goethe Institute?

No offence, I was just kidding about the last part, It's a beautiful language and I still hope I will master it someday, until that day comes, there's always Spanish !

No worries, I'm not easily offended. I'm learning Spanish too at the moment!


@NeitherRightnorWrong:

905.gif
 
Last edited:
.
Well than we are almost in agreement, I guess. :) I wonder if you think they burn in hell, though and if you do, do you think that is just?

That is for God to decide, if they have lived a righteous life, he may choose to forgive them.

I think it is very hard for most people to learn languages from another language family. I probably would have an equally hard time learning Urdu or Pashto. But who knows maybe one day we learn each others language, until then English will do fine. I think it is pretty impressive how multilingual most of you people in South-East Asia are anyway. How did you father study German? Goethe Institute?

My father had been invited by the West German(At the time) Armoured Corp to teach at the Armour and Mechanized Warfare course. So he had to learn German to communicate, he studied German from NUML(National University of Modern Languages) here in Pakistan. The language also proved to be useful as later, he also went for a course on Security, Stability, Transition, and Reconstruction at the George C Marshall Center at Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

No worries, I'm not easily offended. I'm learning Spanish too at the moment!

Glad to hear that......
 
. .
Zakir Naik is an extremism preachorony ,thats how he should be branded.Good decision.:tup:

I disagree! I know he has full faith in Islam & is only preaching good part of it. And it is bec of him some White Britts have converted to Islam. He relates to Jesus with PBUH. and thats where Catholics dont like him.

And he is accused of conversions in Britain, which is getting very insecure , first it was Immigration issue for Non European now this.

I think it is paranoya nothing else
 
.
He was banned just because he was clearing misconceptions about Islam....

Just because he was an Indian or a preacher of Islam Paksitanis and Indians should not bash him or use low level cheap language for him.. :cheers:
 
.
Debate on religion is prevented on PDF. A philosophical argument or a historical discussion on religion won't be stopped though. If we can keep this civilized and argue on this issue on philosophical grounds, then it would be okay otherwise I'll have to close the thread.

Does that mean I shouldn't discuss this Believer vs Unbeliever thing ?
 
.
Now its Canada :D

More 'hate' on speakers' list​

A massive upcoming Islamic conference in Toronto, which was to be headlined by an Indian televangelist until he was recently banned from Canada for his inflammatory statements, features a list of speakers whose past comments against Jews, homosexuals and the West have raised red flags in other countries.

The Journey of Faith Conference -- billed as North America's largest Islamic conference -- features such personalities as Abdur Raheem Green, who has advocated "fighting jihad" and who was reportedly invited by the Christmas Day airline bomber to address British students in 2007, and Sheikh Hussein Yee, who once said Jews are the "extremists of the world" and will "go to Hell."

The chairman of the conference -- which is slated to attract upwards of 10,000 people to the city next month -- is Imam Saed Rageah, whose Toronto mosque, the Abu Huraira Centre, made headlines last fall after several young worshippers vanished and were feared to have joined a Somali militant group.

The National Post reported yesterday that the conference's main speaker, Peace TV founder Dr. Zakir Naik, will not be allowed to enter Canada because of concerns surrounding past statements such as "every Muslim should be a terrorist," Jews are "our staunchest enemy," and "If [Osama bin Laden] is fighting the enemies of Islam, I am for him."

But while Dr. Naik recently grabbed headlines around the world -- first for his exclusion from the U.K. ahead of a speaking tour later this month -- the conference itself has managed to keep a relatively low profile, despite its controversial list of a dozen speakers and chairman.

Although the speaker bios posted to the event website are laudatory and innocuous, the reality -- in some instances, and sometimes dating back two decades -- reveals a less favourable portrait of some speakers.

Mr. Green, for example, was put on a "movement alert list" and barred from entering Australia in 2005 after a government official accused him of "spreading hate." And another Journey of Faith Conference speaker, Sheik Riaz Ansary, is described as having worked with Dr. Bilal Philips, who was reportedly named by the U.S. government as an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and who was banned from entering the U.K. last weekend to attend a conference, according to his blog.

"They appear to be competing against each other in their level of hate, and Zakir Naik was the star performer," said Tarek Fatah, founder of the Muslim Canadian Congress.

Dr. Naik's 16-year-old son, Fariq, is also listed as a speaker, and is described on the website as the child of "an illustrious father and world renowned orator on Islam and comparative religion."

Likewise on the event program is Abdullah Hakim Quick, who was reportedly uninvited from an April conference in Sweden after it surfaced that, many years ago, he said the Islamic position on homosexuality was "death."

"If these extreme voices are given a platform, then very easily people could assume that these extreme views represent the whole Muslim faith, and obviously they don't," said Rev. Brent Hawkes, of Toronto's Metropolitan Community Church, who performed Canada's first same-sex marriage.

The chairman of the conference is Imam Saed Rageah, whose Toronto mosque, the Abu Huraira Centre, made headlines last fall after several young worshippers vanished and were feared to have joined a Somali militant group.

Imam Rageah also incited controversy last year after he used a prayer to call for Allah to "destroy" the enemies of Islam from within.

Imam Rageah declined an interview request, but this week passed along a web video via email of Dr. Naik defending his comments and promising to challenge the U.K. ban.

According to the Journey of Faith event website, the "hope" of the July 2-4 conference at the downtown Metro Toronto Convention Centre is for Muslims to "renew their forgotten relationship" with the Koran.

---------

INVITED SPEAKERS TO FAITH CONFERENCE

Among the personalities slated to speak at the upcoming Journey of Faith Conference in Toronto are the following:

Abdur Raheen Green A British-based lecturer and convert to Islam from Christianity. In an undated YouTube video calling for Muslims to assist the jihad in anyway they can, Mr. Green also said: "Americans are worse terrorists than what the Muslims could ever do. We know that. And the Jews they are worse terrorists."

Abdullah Hakim Quick Director of the Discover Islam Centre of Cape Town, has been an Imam in Los Angeles, Toronto, and Cape Town. According to a 2004 statement by the Broadcasting Standards Authority in New Zealand, Mr. Quick said that homosexuals were dropping dead from AIDS and "they want to take us all down with them." He has reportedly stated that the Islamic position on homosexuality is "death."

Sheikh Hussein Yee President of the Al Khadeem Organization in Malaysia. In an undated YouTube video, Sheikh Yee said: "The most extreme nation in this world is the Jews. So if they use 'extremists,' it doesn't apply to Muslims. It applies to the Jews. They are the extremists of the world. That's why they kill Palestinians every day.... [Jews] go to Hell."

Sheikh Riaz Ansary Author and student at the International Islamic University of Malaysia. On the Journey of Faith Conference website, Sheikh Ansary is said to have "worked as a translator and editor with Dr. Bilal Philips." Dr. Philips was reportedly named by the U.S. government as an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing and, according to his personal blog, was banned last weekend from entering the U.K. to attend a conference.

Sheikh Saed Rageah Chairman of the Journey of Faith Conference and Imam at Toronto's Abu Haraira mosque. At Abu Haraira mosque last fall, Imam Rageah used derogatory language against Jews and Christians, and called on God to "damn" the "infidels." He said: "Allah protect us from the evil agenda of these people; Allah destroy them from within themselves, and do not allow them to raise their heads in destroying Islam." Imam Rageah also made headlines last year after a group of young worshippers from his mosque were feared to have joined a Somali militant group.

More 'hate' on speakers' list
 
.
MUMBAI, June 23, 2010 (AFP) - An Indian Islamic preacher who was banned from entering Britain due to "unacceptable behaviour" has vowed to appeal against the decision, which he blamed on the British media.

Mumbai-based television preacher Zakir Naik had been due to give a series of lectures in London and northern England but Britain's new Home Secretary Theresa May barred him last week.

"We have written to the UK home ministry, seeking them to revise their decision and revoke the exclusion order," a spokesperson for Naik told AFP on Wednesday.

Naik will take up legal proceedings in London if the government does not reverse its ban, he said.

On Tuesday Naik issued a statement accusing May of acting on British press reports which he said portrayed him as "preacher of hate" and a "terror-backer."

Naik has run into controversy for complimentary references to Al-Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden, which he says were made in Singapore in 1996, prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks.

"It is not justified or sensible to use these quotes in the context of 9/11, when the atrocities had not taken place," Naik said.

Naik heads the Mumbai-based Islamic Research Foundation and gives talks on the Peace TV channel.
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom