Breaking News : French President will be Chief Guest at Indian Republic day on Jan26th!!

[PARIKRAMA]

Interesting read
WHERE IS THE RAFALE CONTRACT? DEFENCE DEAL KEY TO FRENCH PRESIDENT’S VISIT TO INDIA

WHERE IS THE RAFALE CONTRACT? DEFENCE DEAL KEY TO FRENCH PRESIDENT’S VISIT TO INDIA
SEEMA MUSTAFA. Sunday, November 22, 2015

French President Francois Hollande with his government’s flagship, the Rafale fighter jet

NEW DELHI: The Rafale jet fighters deal , hanging fire since the grand announcement by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to France in April this year, will be the factor determining the visit--or otherwise--of French President Francois Hollande to India as teh Republic Day guest in January.

Reports in the Indian media of the invite to President Hollande have still to be confirmed by the French, although usually such announcements are made when the response from the guest has been positive. This would thus, point towards the culmination of the multi-billion deal for the supply of 36 Rafale fighters in ‘ready to fly’ condition.

Negotiations between India and Dassault Aviation for the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) started after 2012 after the 30 billion dollar deal coveted by all major defence manufacturers across the globe was awarded to the French company by India. The negotiations became increasingly complicated, and remained stuck in a groove, until PM Modi unilaterally announced during his visit that both had agreed for the supply of 36 , and not the initial 18 ready to fly fighters, in a move that created a stir in both countries.

The Citizen had reported at the time that this unprecedented move the PM had addressed the “critical operational requirements” of the Indian Air Force, but also opened a Pandora’s Box of bonanza’s for the private defence sector where Anil Ambani is ahead of all others, and also sent out a signal of “more to come” to the big powers all eyeing a slice of India’s defence pie. .

The PM’s direct intervention had, thus, effectively closed the earlier file stuck in negotiations between the two sides for three years, and converted the deal into a government-to-government transaction for what is a first for India in its military dealings with France.

However, despite this ‘elevation’ the new file that basically scraps the earlier deal and replaces it with the contract for the 36 read to fly jets has not moved as was anticipated. Earlier the larger deal got bogged down over differences centering around the French resistance to the Indian demand that Dassault take responsibility for the HAL produced fighters and stand guarantee for the same.

Now the deal seems to have got stuck over the offset clause under which the supplier has to invest 50 per cent of the contract cost in India in civil aviation and other such sectors. This cost is basically attached, sources said, to the contract cost and in effect is paid for by the buyer, in this case India. The costs for the fighters have escalated dramatically as a result. The sources said that the French estimates are far higher now than the original cost offered by Dassault when it had bid for the 126 jet fighters deal.

A political push to resolve the deal in August did not succeed, as a result of which French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian who was scheduled to stop in New Delhi to ink the pact was cancelled. He was to stop by on the way back from a visit to Malaysia in early September but this did not happen. A Memorandum of Understanding between India and France for the Rafale deal has still not been signed.

French President Hollande told reporters earlier "We have big hopes for commercial successes of the Rafale." France has already concluded deals for jets to Egypt and Qatar. and is in talks with the United Arab Emirates and Malaysia. Sources said that it seemed to have been smooth sailing for France in Egypt as well, with three of the 24 fighter jets having already been delivered to Cairo. In contrast, the vastly truncated deal with India has still to materialise.

The announcement of a possible visit by the French President to India on January 26 has again revived expectations about the successful conclusion of the Rafale deal. The French have been visibly upset about the protracted negotiations, with the fine print causing stress all around. There is no announcement as yet about the deal, that in one form or the other has been in the pipeline now for four years without even a MOU being signed.

Terror, of course, will be high on PM Modi’s agenda with the French President. However, now with the Paris attacks and the atmosphere of deep fear and insecurity in Europe, for President Hollande Russia and the U.S carry far more weight and significance insofar as this issue is concerned. The war against terror has assumed different dimensions for President Hollande now, as the attacks on Paris have brought French policy into the realm of direct action where India’s role is limited. France that had joined a US led coalition to oppose Russia’s entry into Syria is now working directly with President Vladimir Putin to bomb Islamic State targets in what amounts to a major reversal in policy.

India that has factored itself out of the West Asian region over the years, carrying little clout with the governments there, is not seen as a major player in the current crisis, according to well placed sources. In fact PM Modi’s concerns with terror stop with Pakistan, according to the sources, with New Delhi remaining as peripheral to the new coalition being led by Russia against Daesh as it was in the US led war against terro

==================

Some interesting pointers (we did read similar views before of course)
@Abingdonboy @MilSpec : If offset is funded by us and we do not see any critical absorption of tech or any significant improvement in our local MIC's ability, does it still make sense to bloat up the price tag? (when finally its our own money coming back to our own economy.)

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Interesting read
WHERE IS THE RAFALE CONTRACT? DEFENCE DEAL KEY TO FRENCH PRESIDENT’S VISIT TO INDIA

WHERE IS THE RAFALE CONTRACT? DEFENCE DEAL KEY TO FRENCH PRESIDENT’S VISIT TO INDIA
SEEMA MUSTAFA. Sunday, November 22, 2015

French President Francois Hollande with his government’s flagship, the Rafale fighter jet

NEW DELHI: The Rafale jet fighters deal , hanging fire since the grand announcement by Prime Minister Narendra Modi during his visit to France in April this year, will be the factor determining the visit--or otherwise--of French President Francois Hollande to India as teh Republic Day guest in January.

Reports in the Indian media of the invite to President Hollande have still to be confirmed by the French, although usually such announcements are made when the response from the guest has been positive. This would thus, point towards the culmination of the multi-billion deal for the supply of 36 Rafale fighters in ‘ready to fly’ condition.

Negotiations between India and Dassault Aviation for the 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) started after 2012 after the 30 billion dollar deal coveted by all major defence manufacturers across the globe was awarded to the French company by India. The negotiations became increasingly complicated, and remained stuck in a groove, until PM Modi unilaterally announced during his visit that both had agreed for the supply of 36 , and not the initial 18 ready to fly fighters, in a move that created a stir in both countries.

The Citizen had reported at the time that this unprecedented move the PM had addressed the “critical operational requirements” of the Indian Air Force, but also opened a Pandora’s Box of bonanza’s for the private defence sector where Anil Ambani is ahead of all others, and also sent out a signal of “more to come” to the big powers all eyeing a slice of India’s defence pie. .

The PM’s direct intervention had, thus, effectively closed the earlier file stuck in negotiations between the two sides for three years, and converted the deal into a government-to-government transaction for what is a first for India in its military dealings with France.

However, despite this ‘elevation’ the new file that basically scraps the earlier deal and replaces it with the contract for the 36 read to fly jets has not moved as was anticipated. Earlier the larger deal got bogged down over differences centering around the French resistance to the Indian demand that Dassault take responsibility for the HAL produced fighters and stand guarantee for the same.

Now the deal seems to have got stuck over the offset clause under which the supplier has to invest 50 per cent of the contract cost in India in civil aviation and other such sectors. This cost is basically attached, sources said, to the contract cost and in effect is paid for by the buyer, in this case India. The costs for the fighters have escalated dramatically as a result. The sources said that the French estimates are far higher now than the original cost offered by Dassault when it had bid for the 126 jet fighters deal.

A political push to resolve the deal in August did not succeed, as a result of which French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian who was scheduled to stop in New Delhi to ink the pact was cancelled. He was to stop by on the way back from a visit to Malaysia in early September but this did not happen. A Memorandum of Understanding between India and France for the Rafale deal has still not been signed.

French President Hollande told reporters earlier "We have big hopes for commercial successes of the Rafale." France has already concluded deals for jets to Egypt and Qatar. and is in talks with the United Arab Emirates and Malaysia. Sources said that it seemed to have been smooth sailing for France in Egypt as well, with three of the 24 fighter jets having already been delivered to Cairo. In contrast, the vastly truncated deal with India has still to materialise.

The announcement of a possible visit by the French President to India on January 26 has again revived expectations about the successful conclusion of the Rafale deal. The French have been visibly upset about the protracted negotiations, with the fine print causing stress all around. There is no announcement as yet about the deal, that in one form or the other has been in the pipeline now for four years without even a MOU being signed.

Terror, of course, will be high on PM Modi’s agenda with the French President. However, now with the Paris attacks and the atmosphere of deep fear and insecurity in Europe, for President Hollande Russia and the U.S carry far more weight and significance insofar as this issue is concerned. The war against terror has assumed different dimensions for President Hollande now, as the attacks on Paris have brought French policy into the realm of direct action where India’s role is limited. France that had joined a US led coalition to oppose Russia’s entry into Syria is now working directly with President Vladimir Putin to bomb Islamic State targets in what amounts to a major reversal in policy.

India that has factored itself out of the West Asian region over the years, carrying little clout with the governments there, is not seen as a major player in the current crisis, according to well placed sources. In fact PM Modi’s concerns with terror stop with Pakistan, according to the sources, with New Delhi remaining as peripheral to the new coalition being led by Russia against Daesh as it was in the US led war against terro

==================

Some interesting pointers (we did read similar views before of course)
@Abingdonboy @MilSpec : If offset is funded by us and we do not see any critical absorption of tech or any significant improvement in our local MIC's ability, does it still make sense to bloat up the price tag? (when finally its our own money coming back to our own economy.)

The French have fallen into a Trap of their own making.

As usual they were too clever by half.

It appears things are worse than we thought, there is not even an MOU which is the 1st Step for ANY deal. ............ which means even the 36 is in doubt.

 

[StormShadow]

He wants India's friendship more now than before, france helps india as well as pakistan as well as helped gadafi, as well as many dictators, only now for the first time france is facing the jihadi menace, which India is facing for 30 years, France never accepted terrorism emanating from Pakistan, now they want everyone to consider their point, that's why he accepted in the first instance, it is all geopolitics, as France is a developed country they will think about the future and not sit weeping for ever, they will take Revenge, unlike India who takes the beating and never reply.

That dosent mean we should piss them off by inviting. We follow the principle of Athiti Devo Bhava. And guests should be treated respectfully. How would we feel if Modi is invited and insulted?

He wants India's friendship more now than before, france helps india as well as pakistan as well as helped gadafi, as well as many dictators, only now for the first time france is facing the jihadi menace, which India is facing for 30 years, France never accepted terrorism emanating from Pakistan, now they want everyone to consider their point, that's why he accepted in the first instance, it is all geopolitics,

I know all that... but can you deny the fact that France was one of the few countries which didnot condemn India for nuclear tests? Not only that, they even sold us jets to be used for nuclear delivery. Which other country would allow doing that? And regarding geo politics, Isnt India doing that?

as France is a developed country they will think about the future and not sit weeping for ever, they will take Revenge, unlike India who takes the beating and never reply.

Never reply? Who do you think is shielding India from external threats?? When was the last time a major terrorist strike happened in India? Do you think the enemy is being sympathetic/merciful? The constant effort of the agencies is keeping your and my as$ from being blown into bits. Do you want India to go hollywood style and wipe out the bad guys? Why isnt the super duper west not doing the same against Iran? Think practically...

 

[vayuputhra]

[QUO"StormShadow, post: 7911084, member: 36297"]That dosent mean we should piss them off by inviting. We follow the principle of Athiti Devo Bhava. And guests should be treated respectfully. How would we feel if Modi is invited and insulted?


I know all that... but can you deny the fact that France was one of the few countries which didnot condemn India for nuclear tests? Not only that, they even sold us jets to be used for nuclear delivery. Which other country would allow doing that? And regarding geo politics, Isnt India doing that?

Never reply? Who do you think is shielding India from external threats?? When was the last time a major terrorist strike happened in India? Do you think the enemy is being sympathetic/merciful? The constant effort of the agencies is keeping your and my as$ from being blown into bits. Do you want India to go hollywood style and wipe out the bad guys? Why isnt the super duper west not doing the same against Iran? Think practically...[/QUOTE]

Who is going to piss after invitation yaar what are u saying, we are not gonna piss even if Pakistani primeminister is invited to republic day, we know France is an important country, India will give due respect to any country irrespective of its size and power, do you think the president of Mauritius should be treated less because it is an island? I got moved when you said India should be thankfull for France for accepting the invitation,
We in the south see who is our athithi, not blindly welcome our enemy's also as athithis, may be you are from Rajasthan where they welcomed moguls as their athithis and offered their daughters.

Yes France did not oppose our tests because their foreign policy is different from america and its side kicks, even during British rule they did opposite to what British did, that's why France has some good reputation in GOI, france has also given agosta sub's and the same nuclear delivery planes to pakistan, so don't be like a ji huzoor type.

The people of India think that india never takes revenge, our previous govts were henpecked, even the terrorists were moking our forces as darpok, gutless, military, i know govts ties the hands of army, by instructing them not to respond, Only if the govt is decisive the terrorists will deffer their acts, but the enemy is ready with his goods to deliver, luck and effort both should help to prevent them.

 

[FULL_METAL]

We should have invited Cherlie Hebdo Cartoonists too, Would have been a Biblical slap on the faces of 'Rising intolerance' bitches

 

[Abingdonboy]

FGFA MEANS NO NEED FOR AMCA

Not true at all, how coudl you possibly come to this conclusion? If this was true the AMCA would never have been mooted considering the FGFA buy has been on the table for 7+ years.

The FGFA is a heavy weight 5th gen VLO fighter deisgned primarily with A2A combat in mind deisgned to replace the Su-30s in the long run- the AMCA is a more multirole product intended to replace the Jaguars and Mirage 2000s in the long run.

but intially only 36 but eventually 36 more post 2020

Post 2020 makes no sense, addtional orders above 36 will have to begin prior to 2020 so as to meet the requirements of the IAF.

IAF have to get out of the VICIOUS circle of TOO MANY COMBAT TYPES

And they are doing so- the MiG-21s, 23s and 27s are being replaced by the MKI and Rafales, the Jaguars and Mirage 2000s will be replaced by the AMCA and long term the FGFA will replace the MKI and MiG-29UPGs.

Any chance of Rafale flypast?

Not in 2016, perhaps in 2018. The R-day flypast is for Indian aircraft only.

hope they move forward on EPR deal for Jaitapur too.

Great point, this is just (if not more so) important for India.

Heard from a source about three things
1. DM MP is finally satisfied with Rafale deal costing around $6Bn (a lil more) as total ownership cost including weapons for 40 years
2. DM MP was originally suppose to discuss with PM Modi for just 36 rafales (no options also citing F3R cost higher) BUT a significant change has arose in last week where IN chief has indicated to look beyond US fighters (F35/F18) in our IAC2 (EMALS enabled). That leaves us with Rafale -M as a potential choice and IN is clear it does not want Mig 29Ks in IAC2 but a advanced 4.5 gen type aircraft which can sustain operation into 2060 timelines (37 years from 2023 implying a total 40 year plan package similar to IAF rafale acquisition)
3. This has prompted DM into discussing matters with FM and PM about Make In India part as if IN plans Rafale M then he is wanting MII route for that part not any flyaway acquisition.

The source also said Safran statement of not making M88 jets in India was in response to no chance of M88 participation in indian domestic project (AMCA). As and when MII part comes, Safran will put a similar facility like GE plant in Chikan,Pune "assembling" M88 series engine powering Rafales

The source also said there will be increase in cooperation between France and India in multiple fields especially as both are victims here and recently Russian Prez Putin and Prez Hollande seems to have buried a part of their issues because of both being victims to terrorists attacks and are united against ISIS for slaughtering innocent civilian citizens of both countries in a dastardly fashion. Its still long way away from being very normal but it seems finally there is a very bright chance now with India buying Russian Def stuff and similarly buying French stuff wont create issues like before where Russia did pressurize us a lot for Mistral mishap/fiasco. The situation is suppose to ease further post NaMo Russian visit and spendings to ease the concerns of India's biggest supplier.

BTW very important part of this information is how DM MP reacted when he realized about Rafale fast becoming a choice for IN (French ACC visit and joint exercise seems to have won IN over completely with scope of localised production if tagged along with IAF order). A babu suggested that a new tender be floated for medium weight jet and in RFP we mention a clearly a requirement of Naval variant of the same with TOT and localised production and 30% of the requirement as off the shelf. DM MP lost his cool at that point and said clearly there is no scope for a new MMRCA saga story under NDA government at any point of time and wasting next 7-10 years. He said he will inform FM and PM and see what best can be done for MII part and see the best possible package but doubted clearly the TOT part which makes it very costly. He felt it would be in the hands of PM NaMo and Prez Hollande "leap of faith" for a long term sustainable relationship and see how MII ambition is worked out.

Interestingly I have not heard anything about the IN's interest in the Rafale-M. But what I have heard is the 36 govt-govt deal is absolutely what it appears to be on the face of it- an off the shelf deal. HOWEVER, there is a very seperate set of talks going on for MII where Dassualt has been given permission to seek out any Indian industrial partners they see fit and to present a package to the MoD as soon as possible for a call to be taken. The numbers for this deal will be in excess of 80.

This is more and more following the MKI route- 40 MKIs were ordered entirely off the shelf whilst the Russian Govt held talks with HAL and only years later was the deal for 140+ MKIs to be made in India signed.

As such, the deal signed in January will be for only 36 Rafales- no doubt about it. But that will not be the end of the story, the passing of time will prove all the naysayers wrong. Again, anyone who thinks the fourth largest airforce in the world would induct what doesn't even amount to 2 SQNs worth of a new fighter is just out of their mind.

Oh and where are all the Modi fanboys? A lot of them seem to be convinced that 56-inch chest Modi is only pushing for this 36 unit deal and thus support that decsion blindly and poo poo any talks of addtional Rafales mostly because that seems to be a UPA idea. In reality Modi would be a fool to agree to only inducting 36 Rafales with ZERO Made in India content, can you imagine that? The CAG and oppostion would rip him apart, not only has he not lived up to his own MII hypetrain but the deal for 36 would be begging for a scathing CAG report.

What many here don't seem to understand is the very basic economic theory of economies of scale- 36 jets would actually end up costing the Indian tax payer a lot MORE per unit (up front and over their life span) than 80+ to a horrifc degree really. Not to mention the inherent restrictions this would place on the IAF.

You guys better hope Modi isn't that stupid (and I am sure he isn't).

More than rafaels it will be terrorism that will main focus. India will share its sympathy on bataclan incident and draw parallels to 26/11. India will ask europe do more on terrorism and french are the right ppl to take it up inside EU.

Expect some more indirect admonition and pressure against pakistan to act against terrorists.

Well said bro, the two sides should be working closer than ever on counter terror activites, I'm sure both sides are on the same page in this regard. The case where the US SF recently trained with the NSG highlights this- until the NDA took over this proposal by the US side had been stalled by the UPA but under the new GoI it not only progressed but actually occured. I'm sure the GoI will be pushing for the same with the French.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Official sources said a workaround had now been agreed upon. Thus we have seen finally Mr Hollande invitation and probable signing of 36 jets. Now why would Dassault agree for offsets, 2 bases of operation, Astra integration, etc etc and our pricing negotiations too. Well It is anyone's guess what that is. But I would bet on say more 'guaranteed' orders under Make In India and later flyaway options too.

 

[Bad Guy]

AMCA will not come anywhere before 2035

Mistakes of LCA are not being repeated in AMCA. So, it will surely be in the sky before 2025. Please, monitor AMCA progress on Chinese or Indian Forums instead of reaching any result on this Forum.
You got what I said?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Official sources said a workaround had now been agreed upon. Thus we have seen finally Mr Hollande invitation and probable signing of 36 jets. Now why would Dassault agree for offsets, 2 bases of operation, Astra integration, etc etc and our pricing negotiations too. Well It is anyone's guess what that is. But I would bet on say more 'guaranteed' orders under Make In India and later flyaway options too.

Seriosuly, if you tell any defence industry expert (from any nationality or firm) that Dassualt had agreed to multiple bases of operation and intergration of customer weaponary (leaving offsets to one side) for just 36 jets they would laugh you out of the room. It simply cannot be overstated how absurd such a notion would be. Not only would Dassualt not agree to it but the IAF couldn't afford it (or would find it very hard to justify to any government auditor at the very least).

Intergration of Indian weaponary is going to be hugely expensive on the Rafale but the really devestating costs would be the support and duplication of infrastructure in multiple bases for less than 2 SQNs worth of fighters. Ever wondered why the Mirage 2000s are all based out of just one airbase (that too when present in numbers close to double this figure)? The MiGs, Jaguars and MKIs all have dedicated BRDs all over the country not to mention extensive support from HAL given the nature of their aggreements (localised spare production, ToT etc). 36 off the shelf Rafales would have none of the above making suport challenging enough and you want to go and further complicate matters by splitting them up? No, no one in the MoD or IAF (who actually has an influence in such decsions) would ever allow such a harmful deal to progress. It boggles the mind that people would be stupid enough to buy this.


And what about spare and weapon stockpiling? For such a pitiful number the amount the IAF would reasonably able to stockpile would be insufficent to a) utilise econmies of scale and b) support thew entire fleet of 36 especially when they are georgraphically dispersed. For the MKIs the IAF has VAST spare and weapons warehouses crammed with such all over India that are constantly replenished- often by Indian products. The IAF has a fleet that will get close to 300 MKIs meaning that at any one time in real terms a reltively large number of MKIs are needing specific spares meaning the IAF can go for a large purchase of such spares in advance. For 36 Rafales you would be unable to do so- you would have to have just 1 central pool (obviously meaning no redundancy whatsoever) and all spares and weapons would come from the OEMs ie direct imports (and French equipment is incredibly pricey) on a need basis. This would mean that the AOG (aircraft on ground) rates for the Rafales would be abnormally high as they wait for spares- in percentage terms the number of Rafales requiring a specific part could be high but this would obviously translate into only very small numbers so it may be the case the IAF would only go for a volume part purchase when the number of Rafales requiring that part was in excess of 50% of the fleet (think about that for a second). Come on, we can all see those headlines now "Rafale fleet hit by a lack of spares"- are Modi or Parrikhar really wanting this deal to folow them around for the remainder of their lives?


I could also talk about the inherent ineffcencies in training pilots and ground crew for such a small fleet but I think I've made my point.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Seriosuly, if you tell any defence industry expert (from any nationality or firm) that Dassualt had agreed to multiple bases of operation and intergration of customer weaponary (leaving offsets to one side) for just 36 jets they would laugh you out of the room. It simply cannot be overstated how absurd such a notion would be. Not only would Dassualt not agree to it but the IAF couldn't afford it (or would find it very hard to justify to any government auditor at the very least).

Intergration of Indian weaponary is going to be hugely expensive on the Rafale but the really devestating costs would be the support and duplication of infrastructure in multiple bases for less than 2 SQNs worth of fighters. Ever wondered why the Mirage 2000s are all based out of just one airbase (that too when present in numbers close to double this figure)? The MiGs, Jaguars and MKIs all have dedicated BRDs all over the country not to mention extensive support from HAL given the nature of their aggreements (localised spare production, ToT etc). 36 off the shelf Rafales would have none of the above making suport challenging enough and you want to go and further complicate matters by splitting them up? No, no one in the MoD or IAF (who actually has an influence in such decsions) would ever allow such a harmful deal to progress. It boggles the mind that people would be stupid enough to buy this.


And what about spare and weapon stockpiling? For such a pitiful number the amount the IAF would reasonably able to stockpile would be insufficent to a) utilise econmies of scale and b) support thew entire fleet of 36 especially when they are georgraphically dispersed. For the MKIs the IAF has VAST spare and weapons warehouses crammed with such all over India that are constantly replenished- often by Indian products. The IAF has a fleet that will get close to 300 MKIs meaning that at any one time in real terms a reltively large number of MKIs are needing specific spares meaning the IAF can go for a large purchase of such spares in advance. For 36 Rafales you would be unable to do so- you would have to have just 1 central pool (obviously meaning no redundancy whatsoever) and all spares and weapons would come from the OEMs ie direct imports (and French equipment is incredibly pricey) on a need basis. This would mean that the AOG (aircraft on ground) rates for the Rafales would be abnormally high as they wait for spares- in percentage terms the number of Rafales requiring a specific part could be high but this would obviously translate into only very small numbers so it may be the case the IAF would only go for a volume part purchase when the number of Rafales requiring that part was in excess of 50% of the fleet (think about that for a second). Come on, we can all see those headlines now "Rafale fleet hit by a lack of spares"- are Modi or Parrikhar really wanting this deal to folow them around for the remainder of their lives?


I could also talk about the inherent ineffcencies in training pilots and ground crew for such a small fleet but I think I've made my point.

Are you telling us that YOUR ability to think things through is MORE than the Combined ability of IAF and MoD ?

Just trying to set the record straight.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Are you telling us that YOUR ability to think things through is MORE than the Combined ability of IAF and MoD ?

Not even remotely.

I am articulating the exact formulations the MoD/IAF/PMO have made and explaining why there is a lot more going on than it appears. The main jist of my post was aimed at all those who have been so increidbly quick to conclude that the 36 Rafales is the final deal.

 

[Mamsalaphala]

Not even remotely.

I am articulating the exact formulations the MoD/IAF/PMO have made and explaining why there is a lot more going on than it appears. The main jist of my post was aimed at all those who have been so increidbly quick to conclude that the 36 Rafales is the final deal.

That would depend purely on what Dassault is willing to offer and history tells us not much.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

Hollande is most welcome.