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No wonder bengal got made
I guess now i know why

Read shahab nama and you will know why
Stop disrespecting people groups, it's a constant thing where everyone can disrespect us like it's nothing and we have no feelings, not to mention what we face irl outside Punjab, I won't delve into it too much but everyone knows the killings, racism that people have faced
We are not animals with no feelings or pride and everyone can take turns screwing us
What else are you expecting when you say that kinda shit? Aik haar and 21 topon ki salami?
Thank God he didn't say it man to man, would have had his head smashed in, but it's internet so what can you do

Move on, I stopped after he got banned, no issues with anyone unless you try to disrespect and humiliate me

I Don't do it to someone else, respect everyone and expect the same behavior from the rest of the people- it's only fair
 
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Are Bajwa and his Gang of Goons your Military Buds? No!, Nobody is Cursing the Military , as far as i can tell except for a few troll accounts Nobody is stooping this down to Criticize the Military Collectively rather some individuals.
I read twitter messages, the same are on YouTube channel, generals are getting hammered but they are normal citizens of Pakistan who are upset. Its democracy and they have freedom to write what they want. ISPR should delete Facebook, Twitter and YouTube accounts if they can't take criticism.
 
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Stop disrespecting people groups, it's a constant thing where everyone can disrespect us like it's nothing and we have no feelings, not to mention what we face irl outside Punjab, I won't delve into it too much but everyone knows the killings, racism that people have faced
We are not animals with no feelings or pride and everyone can take turns screwing us
What else are you expecting when you say that kinda shit? Aik haar and 21 topon ki salami?
Thank God he didn't say it man to man, would have had his head smashed in, but it's internet so what can you do

Move on, I stopped after he got banned, no issues with anyone unless you try to disrespect and humiliate me

I Don't do it to someone else, respect everyone and expect the same behavior from the rest of the people- it's only fair
What did i say:blink:
Read any history book
And you will know why bengal got separated
Read any book and you will know what happend in KPK

You people sound exactly like Hindutvadis. No context, no background only rhetoric. Continue if that helps you sleep at night.

Also i don't believe in fake mystics. You can read Tarzan and Talasmi totay for all i care.
Read your history boy and grow up
 
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Glade most pakistanis now understand what happened
Instead of calling mujeeb a traitor
He was a traitor. He could have made East Pakistan autonomous but instead went for complete independent with a different name. East Pakistan was created by Bangalis. West Pakistanis were not involved in that struggle except the leaders who travelled there to promote Pakistan movement.
 
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Here is my stance:

View attachment 833161

PTI came with help of Establishment & its ouster too is due to withdrawal of support by Establishment. So, I do not see PTI going the anti-Establishment route. It is on a anti-QJB drive. If IK gets a chance to bring in Gen Faiz Hameed (fat chance now), you would again see the same one-page honeymoon.

No one can survive in Pakistan on an anti-Establishment stance & PTI knows it. Its politics is that of personalities, not institutions. Therefore, unless there is deep introspection (no signs detectable in PTI top leadership) regarding their role in pro-Establishment politics & having been beneficiary of such a role, you will see no change. Any anti-Establishment rhetoric will likely come from lower-grade expendable stock, not the top leadership.

Just to gauge the future, look closely at the trajectory of Establishment moles in PTI, such as Vawda:
View attachment 833158
Well glad to know about your stance.
What do you mean by bringing in Faiz? In PTI after retirement?

Anyway I think openly confronting institutions is not good for your country, let alone politics. PMLN also bashed Bajwa etc publicly, but are now heaping praise for his ‘pro democratic’ role.
I cant see PDM doing anything meaningful- I mean you have a party of 140 sitting out of govt! PPP and PMLN are ideologically poles apart, they cant go into elections as being allies. It is on an ever thinner majority, and how do you satisfy so many coalition partners? None of them are together only for making the country better by the way.

What I fear is all the gains against terror and crime, specifically in Karachi will start reversing - since PMLN is now dependent on PPP and MQM, what can it do if target killing and extortion returns to Karachi? Right now Establishment doesn’t seem to have a good standing in any major party, so they might just be spectators while people are getting killed. I dont agree that PTI is completely a creation of establishment, sure they may have played a role, but the support base of PTI and its vote bank is there. It may swing up and down but Punjab will be PMLN vs PTI and same in KPk. It has essentially replaced PPP in Punjab and Kpk.
 
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Well glad to know about your stance.
What do you mean by bringing in Faiz? In PTI after retirement?

Anyway I think openly confronting institutions is not good for your country, let alone politics. PMLN also bashed Bajwa etc publicly, but are now heaping praise for his ‘pro democratic’ role.
I cant see PDM doing anything meaningful- I mean you have a party of 140 sitting out of govt! PPP and PMLN are ideologically poles apart, they cant go into elections as being allies. It is on an ever thinner majority, and how do you satisfy so many coalition partners? None of them are together only for making the country better by the way.

What I fear is all the gains against terror and crime, specifically in Karachi will start reversing - since PMLN is now dependent on PPP and MQM, what can it do if target killing and extortion returns to Karachi? Right now Establishment doesn’t seem to have a good standing in any major party, so they might just be spectators while people are getting killed. I dont agree that PTI is completely a creation of establishment, sure they may have played a role, but the support base of PTI and its vote bank is there. It may swing up and down but Punjab will be PMLN vs PTI and same in KPk. It has essentially replaced PPP in Punjab and Kpk.
1. The plan of PTI that got frustrated was getting Gen Faiz Hameed to be COAS. That was the assurance needed for a ten year rule by manipulation of GE 2023. While nominally (then Maj. Gen) Faiz Hameed served as Head of CI, he was busy managing politics 2017-18. His role was pivotal in securing (s)election of PTI in 2018. I do not think it is a good idea to discuss him beyond this further since he is currently serving in the army.

2. PML-N publicly named Gen Bajwa & Faiz to put them under pressure. It was the logical thing to do, since they were responsible for rigging GE2018 & the state-backed persecution that PML-N faced was (via courts & NAB) at their behest for sake of getting PTI (s)elected. I know PTI supporters have a hard time accepting this, but this is the bare truth. If you accept that COAS QJB played a role in 2022, you have to admit that this role was there 2017-18 also.

3. PML-N is just another political party in an immature polity. They will raise slogans as strategy (who doesn't?) but will keep themselves tactically pragmatic. When it comes to judging political parties, one must note their professed values, charters, slogans, & rhetoric; but the real deal is their performance - what they actually do & accomplish. For this we need to look at longer term (> 2 years at least) when their impact becomes apparent.

4. Gains against terror started getting compromised 2017 when Counter Intelligence busied itself with politics. TTP had been organizing themselves quietly ever since then. What you see happening today is a result of (run up to & beyond) GE2018. Don't worry, we are not going back to the days of daily bomb blasts & Karachi lock-downs. While TTP has reorganized itself & is energized by Taliban government in Kabul, Pakistan Army is taking them on & not allowing them to spread via peace-deals etc.

5. When it comes to MQM, do note that the Vote of No Confidence is an Opposition move. This is what political Opposition does the world over. No need to think of this as a coalition which would cede space to MQM-London. Even if it did, MQM has been very well defanged. Interesting bit for you to mull over is that PML-N eschewed MQM overtures as far back as in 2010. NS was determined not to take MQM on-board at all just so they could be sorted out. This worked well. Why would PML-N wish to go back to days when MQM had a monopoly over Karachi by using terror as its weapon? PML-N always prioritizes development & Economy & that is why its program included eliminating MQM terror even though there was little chance for PML-N to secure electoral victory from Karachi.

6. I am quite sure that any coalition government would come in with a specific agenda and once that is achieved, we'll have fresh elections.

I would caution you not to take maximalist positions, a la PTI, even if you are a supporter. There is a difference in rhetoric & reality. If you continue to see things from the perspective of rhetoric of any one political party, you would set yourself up for disappointments. Remember all those U-turns taken by IK? It was rhetoric being crushed by reality. So, if IK says all others are looters & plunderers & anti-Pakistan, do take that with a heap of salt. All that means is "give me power", & nothing more than that. At the end, it is about what parties accomplished.
 
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Glade most pakistanis now understand what happened
Instead of calling mujeeb a traitor
Punjab started getting these feels in 2018. But Punjab being Punjab, this will never translate into anything more than expression of anger at the ballot box.

He was a traitor. He could have made East Pakistan autonomous but instead went for complete independent with a different name. East Pakistan was created by Bangalis. West Pakistanis were not involved in that struggle except the leaders who travelled there to promote Pakistan movement.
Bangladesh was created by West Pakistan & that is the truth. Had generals not got into politics, 1956 Constitution could still have been guiding East & West Pakistan. But nope, Gen (R) Iskandar Mirza had to abrogate it for personal ambition.

Read history, not gossip.

I hope this settles the debate that he is with LEA and not Intelligence apparatus:

View attachment 833066
Thanks for sharing. At least he is not being disappeared & has recourse to a court of law.
 
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@Foxtrot Alpha @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Chak Bamu

Let's cool down a bit.

Seniors of this forum have a responsibility to keep civil discourse. I know tensions are running high, but in the end this is just another defense forum, and we all just internet strangers.

There's no reason to get mad at each other over disagreements.
 
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Here is my stance:

View attachment 833161

PTI came with help of Establishment & its ouster too is due to withdrawal of support by Establishment. So, I do not see PTI going the anti-Establishment route. It is on a anti-QJB drive. If IK gets a chance to bring in Gen Faiz Hameed (fat chance now), you would again see the same one-page honeymoon.

No one can survive in Pakistan on an anti-Establishment stance & PTI knows it. Its politics is that of personalities, not institutions. Therefore, unless there is deep introspection (no signs detectable in PTI top leadership) regarding their role in pro-Establishment politics & having been beneficiary of such a role, you will see no change. Any anti-Establishment rhetoric will likely come from lower-grade expendable stock, not the top leadership.

Just to gauge the future, look closely at the trajectory of Establishment moles in PTI, such as Vawda:
View attachment 833158


Kindly dont present your imaginative fantasies, conjectures, half-baked theories as some kind of absolute facts

Do you forget that SHAHBAZ sharif interview in which He openly claimed Establishment offered him the government before 2018 GE and he was ready ! and he was about to become PM? That interview is still on youtube for you to watch.

What are absolute facts? PML-N leadership meeting American General consulate in Lahore in late FEB and MARCH. They were actively aided to throw IK under the bus.

The pictures of PML N leaders meeting americans are on their twitter feeds. What a shameful thing to do
 
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3. PML-N is just another political party in an immature polity. They will raise slogans as strategy (who doesn't?) but will keep themselves tactically pragmatic. When it comes to judging political parties, one must note their professed values, charters, slogans, & rhetoric; but the real deal is their performance - what they actually do & accomplish. For this we need to look at longer term (> 2 years at least) when their impact becomes apparent.

I read many of your recent political opinions and there is only one thing comes to mind after reading those posts.

I strongly felt that you started following politics of Pakistan only after 2018.

You definitely were not of newspaper reading age before year 2000.
 
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I read many of your recent political opinions and there is only one thing comes to mind after reading those posts.

I strongly felt that you started following politics of Pakistan only after 2018.

You definitely were not of newspaper reading age before year 2000.
I started reading newspapers in 1977/8. I well remember PNA movement against Bhutto.

You can send me a personal message before posting something like this; would save you the embarrassment.
 
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Bangladesh was created by West Pakistan & that is the truth. Had generals not got into politics, 1956 Constitution could still have been guiding East & West Pakistan. But nope, Gen (R) Iskandar Mirza had to abrogate it for personal ambition.

Read history, not gossip.
If you wanted to copy paste Indian and khooni liberal propaganda, you could have done it anywhere on the net anonymously.
 
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