BREAKING-LEGISLATION ON BEEF BAN PASSED UNANIMOUSLY IN PARLIAMENT!!!

[Crystal-Clear]

Aacha... Minority Jo h wo majority ki sentiments ki koi kadr nahi kre Magar majority hi Dhyan rakhe...
This will lead to more trust deficit in society.

ji ji teen talaq , love jihad & ghar wapsi jesey issues hi ha jin sey majority k sentiments hit hotey

 

[Cookie Monster]

You did argue well on my other points except my last point. Why does Muslims need to have own Personal Laws in a secular state? I see Pakistani guys were vehemently attacking Modi for Abolishing triple talaq when its banned in Pakistan anyway. See the difference.

I'm not responsible for what other "Pakistani guys" were saying. I speak for myself. As for triple talaq laws and other such things...

...my position is the same as it would be in case of banning beef bcuz cow is holy.
A SECULAR STATE SHOULD NOT INTERFERE NOR PASS LAWS TO MAKE/ENFORCE RELIGIOUS CHOICES/DECISIONS FOR ITS CITIZENS.
^^this is my position whether it's regarding laws for Hindus or for Muslims...against Hindus or against Muslims...or any other religious group.

Secular means when making a law, religious angle wouldnt be taken account in it. That's the word secular is. And also means any citizen of india can become anything despite following any religion.
Cow is a holy is a religious and cultural issue. You can argue these things, lets say for example Muslims arent allowed to follow some rituals or their religions. But that's not the case. For Indians, cow is considered holy. Simple. That's our culture, and I dont care if one is Muslim, Christian Hindu or not.

Wow so many inaccuracies in one paragraph. I don't even know where to begin...

See the part above in red where u explain what secular means...and then right underneath u go on to argue a religious issue where u want the state to pass that law...do u see the contradiction within ur own argument? U defeated ur own argument right there.

Next up let's analyze these below...
"For Indians, cow is considered holy. Simple."
cow isn't holy for INDIANS. It's only holy for HINDUS. If it was holy for INDIANS then nobody in India would slaughter cows...and we wouldn't be having this argument.

"That's our culture, and I dont care if one is Muslim, Christian Hindu or not."
Again that's not OUR(as in Indian) culture. It's just a Hindu culture/religion to view cows as holy. Muslims/Christians don't share that view.

Eating cow is not a mandatory religious requirement and hence banning beaf doesnt affect "essential religious practises".

If one can forgo non essential religious practices that easily then like I said in my earlier post...u should have no problem giving up praying to "moortis". U can pray to ur gods without having their idols. It's not ESSENTIAL in ur religion that u MUST pray to ur gods' idol.

How come banning beaf(its not banned anyway now) will affect the sentiment of Muslims beyond me.

Again it's not about the sentiments. A Muslim can choose to not eat beef in respect for his fellow Hindu friends and his sentiments wouldn't be hurt whatsoever. The argument here is the involvement of the state, which claims to be secular. Once a law is passed to please the majority by FORCING A RELIGIOUS DECISION on the minority...it sets a precedence. It makes the state no longer secular. It serves as a stepping stone for the majority to demand more and more such laws by their state that serves to please them even if at the expense of other religious minorities. So if u guys wanna go that route then why the charade...why not cut to the chase and declare urself Hindu Republic of India?

Second I am ok with buffalo, oxens meat.

That's great but it's not really up to u is it? The choice isn't being made for u...u as a Hindu were gonna pick an alternative to cow meat anyways. The decision is to be forced on Muslims/Christians/etc.

That's like if a Muslim/Christian/Jew said "I'm ok with ppl not praying to idols"...and a law was passed banning "idol worshipping". Lol would it matter if the Muslims/Christians are ok with it? It's not really effecting them...it's not targeting them...so u saying that above is completely irrelevant.

If India respects the sensibilities of 14% Muslims to have loudspeakers for Azans(Its banned by SC, but no govt has implemented it), then its fair to expect for anybody to respect the sentiment of 70% of people considering some 10-12% of Hindus themselves are ok with eating beef.

Two wrongs don't make a right. If something is happening that goes against secularism...it doesn't matter who it's favoring. If Muslims are being favored then it's still just as against secularism as it would be if Hindus or any other religious group was being favored. Once a state starts taking sides and starts passing laws and judgements on religious matters it by definition becomes non secular.

In a secular state, the state has a responsbility to respect all majority belief. if you want India to be a real secular state, you will be posting things how India is oppresing Muslims,

U wanna know what's a secular state? US is an example...though US never goes around thumping it's chest about being secular...and often is portrayed as a Christian state. However there are ppl here of many different ethnicities and religions. Since u mentioned loudspeakers...
Here in US loudspeakers are banned for Churches/Mosques/Synagogues alike. That law against loudspeakers isn't made to target religious institutions like Churches or Mosques...it's a law universally applied to any entity in order to keep noise levels in control so the ppl are not disturbed.

An elected official taking an oath for office can use the Bible or any other holy book of his choosing. If he is Muslim he may choose the Quran, if he is Hindu he may choose Gita, etc.

It extends beyond this...my neighbor could be Hindu and pray to an idol...and none of his Christian/Muslim/Jew(in all three religions idol worshipping is considered a major sin) neighbors can tell him not to do so. He would be free to follow his religion. Likewise a Christian/Jew/Muslim could be eating beef at a restaurant and a Hindu walks in...he can't tell them otherwise either...

In order to be a secular state...it's plain and simple...religion is a personal matter. The state doesn't get involved and tells u what to do in ur religious matters.

As for ppl's sentiments getting hurt by another person's choices...well that's just the way things are. U will find plenty of ppl who think differently than u do.
A person may think abortion is wrong and by aborting a child u r ending life, which is a noble thought from his perspective...while some teenage mother(a classmate) at his school may go have an abortion. In her mind she could be thinking that she's not financially nor mentally ready to properly raise a child...and it would be unfair to the child if she brought him into this world...so she's also thinking that she's doing the right thing by having an abortion. Two opposing views...both ppl thinking they are right. However each should be free to make their own choice. Neither of them should try to force their views on to the other.

Just like that there are somethings that u may not like...for example consumption of beef by non Hindus...but if u r not gonna be ok with their choices...why should they be ok with ur choices? They may find that believing in more than one God is offensive(in their monotheistic view)...so on and so forth.

If u want to have free will of ur own then u must allow free will of others. It's hypocritical to say that u want to have ur own free will but take away the free will of others when they do something u don't like.

In any case...Im going off on a tangent now. The argument was that as a secular state, India shouldn't pass laws deciding on religious matters. If u wish to have laws pleasing the Hindu majority then go ahead and declare ur country a Hindu Republic...so any non Hindu would know what to expect.

 

[mb444]

All and all our prophet was insult/abuse any religion like you, our prophet always preaches with logic and common sense, you trying to abuse/insult their religions, that's why i called you Non Muslim , you narrow minded pathetic Muslim @mb444

Lol...what logic or common sense would you employ to tell someone that a cow can not conceivably be God ... other than simply just saying that like I am... also why on earth should any human possessing normal mental faculty adhere to such stupid laws as you are advocating muslims of India should adhere to?

Do enlighten ....

A narrow minded Muslim is one such as you who will bow to anyone and anything because it is the path of least resistance.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Lol...what logic or common sense would you employ to tell someone that a cow can not conceivably be God ... other than simply just saying that like I am... also why on earth should any human possessing normal mental faculty adhere to such stupid laws as you are advocating muslims of India should adhere to?

Do enlighten ....

A narrow minded Muslim is one such as you who will bow to anyone and anything because it is the path of least resistance.

That's mentality i was talking about, you'll trying to insult there religion, and our prophet (PBUH) didn't, he convince Makkah non Muslims in polite way, with logic, commonsense and not blabber or abuse/insult, and that's their (Hindu's) own choice to understand or not, its the will/duty of Allah to understand those misconceptions of their, not me or you, and also there are ayats in Qura'an that said to our prophet (PBUH) that you have only to preach, and guidness is a duty of Allah to non Muslims @mb444

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Their country their rules, None of our business.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

I'm not responsible for what other "Pakistani guys" were saying. I speak for myself. As for triple talaq laws and other such things...

...my position is the same as it would be in case of banning beef bcuz cow is holy.
A SECULAR STATE SHOULD NOT INTERFERE NOR PASS LAWS TO MAKE/ENFORCE RELIGIOUS CHOICES/DECISIONS FOR ITS CITIZENS.
^^this is my position whether it's regarding laws for Hindus or for Muslims...against Hindus or against Muslims...or any other religious group.

Wow so many inaccuracies in one paragraph. I don't even know where to begin...

See the part above in red where u explain what secular means...and then right underneath u go on to argue a religious issue where u want the state to pass that law...do u see the contradiction within ur own argument? U defeated ur own argument right there.

Next up let's analyze these below...
"For Indians, cow is considered holy. Simple."
cow isn't holy for INDIANS. It's only holy for HINDUS. If it was holy for INDIANS then nobody in India would slaughter cows...and we wouldn't be having this argument.

"That's our culture, and I dont care if one is Muslim, Christian Hindu or not."
Again that's not OUR(as in Indian) culture. It's just a Hindu culture/religion to view cows as holy. Muslims/Christians don't share that view.
If one can forgo non essential religious practices that easily then like I said in my earlier post...u should have no problem giving up praying to "moortis". U can pray to ur gods without having their idols. It's not ESSENTIAL in ur religion that u MUST pray to ur gods' idol.
Again it's not about the sentiments. A Muslim can choose to not eat beef in respect for his fellow Hindu friends and his sentiments wouldn't be hurt whatsoever. The argument here is the involvement of the state, which claims to be secular. Once a law is passed to please the majority by FORCING A RELIGIOUS DECISION on the minority...it sets a precedence. It makes the state no longer secular. It serves as a stepping stone for the majority to demand more and more such laws by their state that serves to please them even if at the expense of other religious minorities. So if u guys wanna go that route then why the charade...why not cut to the chase and declare urself Hindu Republic of India?

That's great but it's not really up to u is it? The choice isn't being made for u...u as a Hindu were gonna pick an alternative to cow meat anyways. The decision is to be forced on Muslims/Christians/etc.

That's like if a Muslim/Christian/Jew said "I'm ok with ppl not praying to idols"...and a law was passed banning "idol worshipping". Lol would it matter if the Muslims/Christians are ok with it? It's not really effecting them...it's not targeting them...so u saying that above is completely irrelevant.

Two wrongs don't make a right. If something is happening that goes against secularism...it doesn't matter who it's favoring. If Muslims are being favored then it's still just as against secularism as it would be if Hindus or any other religious group was being favored. Once a state starts taking sides and starts passing laws and judgements on religious matters it by definition becomes non secular.

U wanna know what's a secular state? US is an example...though US never goes around thumping it's chest about being secular...and often is portrayed as a Christian state. However there are ppl here of many different ethnicities and religions. Since u mentioned loudspeakers...
Here in US loudspeakers are banned for Churches/Mosques/Synagogues alike. That law against loudspeakers isn't made to target religious institutions like Churches or Mosques...it's a law universally applied to any entity in order to keep noise levels in control so the ppl are not disturbed.

An elected official taking an oath for office can use the Bible or any other holy book of his choosing. If he is Muslim he may choose the Quran, if he is Hindu he may choose Gita, etc.

It extends beyond this...my neighbor could be Hindu and pray to an idol...and none of his Christian/Muslim/Jew(in all three religions idol worshipping is considered a major sin) neighbors can tell him not to do so. He would be free to follow his religion. Likewise a Christian/Jew/Muslim could be eating beef at a restaurant and a Hindu walks in...he can't tell them otherwise either...

In order to be a secular state...it's plain and simple...religion is a personal matter. The state doesn't get involved and tells u what to do in ur religious matters.

As for ppl's sentiments getting hurt by another person's choices...well that's just the way things are. U will find plenty of ppl who think differently than u do.
A person may think abortion is wrong and by aborting a child u r ending life, which is a noble thought from his perspective...while some teenage mother(a classmate) at his school may go have an abortion. In her mind she could be thinking that she's not financially nor mentally ready to properly raise a child...and it would be unfair to the child if she brought him into this world...so she's also thinking that she's doing the right thing by having an abortion. Two opposing views...both ppl thinking they are right. However each should be free to make their own choice. Neither of them should try to force their views on to the other.

Just like that there are somethings that u may not like...for example consumption of beef by non Hindus...but if u r not gonna be ok with their choices...why should they be ok with ur choices? They may find that believing in more than one God is offensive(in their monotheistic view)...so on and so forth.

If u want to have free will of ur own then u must allow free will of others. It's hypocritical to say that u want to have ur own free will but take away the free will of others when they do something u don't like.

In any case...Im going off on a tangent now. The argument was that as a secular state, India shouldn't pass laws deciding on religious matters. If u wish to have laws pleasing the Hindu majority then go ahead and declare ur country a Hindu Republic...so any non Hindu would know what to expect.

Then why is horsemeat banned in the Secular wonderland of United States? And why in most countries dog meat is banned? There is freedom of choices there too. The catch is laws are made by the people.

Second India is not Hindus. India is of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. You are arguing like the culture of Hindus and Muslims are different and the Congress and various political parties have let Muslims run with that arguement. But its not. Muslims, CHristians are none other than our brothers who converted for various reasons. That doesnt make them alien to Indian culture.

See, if I convert tomorrow, I will still be an Indian Tamil no matter what. And the culture, cuisine and temples of TN is my culture as well. Just cos I convert doesnt mean I start eating beef and start claiming Muslim culture is different than Tamil culture. You do see how idiotic that sounds right?

Free choice always has been upto considerable restrictions. And Laws are made according to the cultures of that nation. India is not a first world utopia. The Sub continent has its own culture. And it will be protected just like Chinese protect theirs and Japanese theirs. Being Muslims is no excuse to say "Hey, I do not follow Bharathiya culture".

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

Then why is horsemeat banned in the Secular wonderland of United States? And why in most countries dog meat is banned? There is freedom of choices there too. The catch is laws are made by the people.

Second India is not Hindus. India is of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. You are arguing like the culture of Hindus and Muslims are different and the Congress and various political parties have let Muslims run with that arguement. But its not. Muslims, CHristians are none other than our brothers who converted for various reasons. That doesnt make them alien to Indian culture.

See, if I convert tomorrow, I will still be an Indian Tamil no matter what. And the culture, cuisine and temples of TN is my culture as well. Just cos I convert doesnt mean I start eating beef and start claiming Muslim culture is different than Tamil culture. You do see how idiotic that sounds right?

Free choice always has been upto considerable restrictions. And Laws are made according to the cultures of that nation. India is not a first world utopia. The Sub continent has its own culture. And it will be protected just like Chinese protect theirs and Japanese theirs. Being Muslims is no excuse to say "Hey, I do not follow Bharathiya culture".

Habits change overtime. So tomorrow you may be eating beef.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Habits change overtime. So tomorrow you may be eating beef.

Then I will eat according to the culture of that time decided by the people living in this country.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Then why is horsemeat banned in the Secular wonderland of United States? And why in most countries dog meat is banned? There is freedom of choices there too. The catch is laws are made by the people.

So what's ur next question? Why is human meat banned? Dogs and cats and horses are not raised for the express purpose of eating their meat, whereas cows are. In addition there's no religion that's being effected in any way by banning dog/cat/horse meat. Nor are these meats banned bcuz some religious group thinks of them as holy. There's no analogy here.

Second India is not Hindus. India is of Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. You are arguing like the culture of Hindus and Muslims are different and the Congress and various political parties have let Muslims run with that arguement. But its not. Muslims, CHristians are none other than our brothers who converted for various reasons. That doesnt make them alien to Indian culture.

See, if I convert tomorrow, I will still be an Indian Tamil no matter what. And the culture, cuisine and temples of TN is my culture as well. Just cos I convert doesnt mean I start eating beef and start claiming Muslim culture is different than Tamil culture. You do see how idiotic that sounds right?

Did I say that Indian ppl of various religions don't have Indian culture? Or r u just putting words in my mouth?

I only said that cow being holy isn't Indian culture. If it was then no matter what religion u followed as an Indian...u would consider cow holy and no one would want to sacrifice it nor eat its meat. This would never be a point of discussion. All Indians(Hindus/Muslims/Christians) would unanimously adopt that law...

...but the thing is that it's not part of Indian culture. Cow being holy is part of Hindu religion. Either u r confusing culture with religion or u r straight making up things. Cow isn't holy to Indian Muslims nor Indian Christians...that's a FACT. Cow is holy in Hindu religion...that's a FACT. So when a secular state steps in to pass a law that favors the sentiments of one religious group while sidelining another...that state is no longer secular. Don't try to paint a religious matter as a cultural matter to side step "secularism".

Free choice always has been upto considerable restrictions. And Laws are made according to the cultures of that nation. India is not a first world utopia. The Sub continent has its own culture. And it will be protected just like Chinese protect theirs and Japanese theirs. Being Muslims is no excuse to say "Hey, I do not follow Bharathiya culture".

Again...this is not a cultural issue...it's a religious issue. I can provide u proof where cow is holy in Hindu RELIGION. Can u show me proof of cow being holy in Indian Muslim CULTURE? Or Indian Christian CULTURE?

If u can't provide proof of this in ur reply to me...then don't bother replying with this same baseless argument trying to paint this religious issue as a cultural issue.

 

[mb444]

That's mentality i was talking about, you'll trying to insult there religion, and our prophet (PBUH) didn't, he convince Makkah non Muslims in polite way, with logic, commonsense and not blabber or abuse/insult, and that's their (Hindu's) own choice to understand or not, its the will/duty of Allah to understand those misconceptions of their, not me or you, and also there are ayats in Qura'an that said to our prophet (PBUH) that you have only to preach, and guidness is a duty of Allah to non Muslims @mb444

What gibberish are you going on about? You keep going on about common sense, logic etc....

Please enlighten us how you would employ those in stating that a cow is an animal, there is no proof it is capable of higher thoughts and there certainly no observable or deductable proof of its divinity.

Is it a fact that you simply wont state that a cow is not a God.... because you yourself believe it? You have to understand I do not really care if you believe a dumb animal is god... it's your business. Only objection is when someone else has to observe this nonsense even when the nonsense is state sponsored.

We are not talking about some abstract theological disagreements. Its regressive Neanderthals so dumb as to think cows are devine!!!!! It's like a parody but scarily it is not..... These stupid hindutva laws are designed to harm and oppress muslims and you are getting on your high horse, giving validation to the fascist law and pretending these do not have on the ground negative implication for people.

 

[Ultima Thule]

What gibberish are you going on about? You keep going on about common sense, logic etc....

Please enlighten us how you would employ those in stating that a cow is an animal, there is no proof it is capable of higher thoughts and there certainly no observable or deductable proof of its divinity.

Is it a fact that you simply wont state that a cow is not a God.... because you yourself believe it? You have to understand I do not really care if you believe a dumb animal is god... it's your business. Only objection is when someone else has to observe this nonsense even when the nonsense is state sponsored.

We are not talking about some abstract theological disagreements. Its regressive Neanderthals so dumb as to think cows are devine!!!!! It's like a parody but scarily it is not..... These stupid hindutva laws are designed to harm and oppress muslims and you are getting on your high horse, giving validation to the fascist law and pretending these do not have on the ground negative implication for people.

only one sentence for you, THEIR COUNTRY, THEIR RELIGION, THEIR RULES @mb444

 

[mb444]

only one sentence for you, THEIR COUNTRY, THEIR RELIGION, THEIR RULES @mb444

Lol.... you have a lot to learn if you are going to troll under a false flag.... no self respecting Muslim or a right thinking individual would take such an absolutist position over such an issue..... but a hindutva turd would as logical argument in support of it can be made.p

Why not just say it's your country, your religion and your rules....

To which the inevitable response is India is not a country that is the exclusive province of hindutva turds, your religion is yours alone, no one else needs to give a damn, go practice it in any way you want without impacting others and you can shove your rules where the sun don't shine.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Lol.... you have a lot to learn if you are going to troll under a false flag.... no self respecting Muslim or a right thinking individual would take such an absolutist position over such an issue..... but a hindutva turd would as logical argument in support of it can be made.p

Why not just say it's your country, your religion and your rules....

To which the inevitable response is India is not a country that is the exclusive province of hindutva turds, your religion is yours alone, no one else needs to give a damn, go practice it in any way you want without impacting others and you can shove your rules where the sun don't shine.

You narrow minded pathetic Muslim, what should we do if India will ban cow slaughter, just protest @mb444 And i am not flase flagger like you are you pathetic narrow minded low IQ Mulsim ,that's why icalled THEIR COUNTRY, THEIR RELIGION, THEIR RULES @mb444

 

[mb444]

You narrow minded pathetic Muslim, what should we do if India will ban cow slaughter, just protest @mb444 And i am not flase flagger like you are you pathetic narrow minded low IQ Mulsim ,that's why icalled THEIR COUNTRY, THEIR RELIGION, THEIR RULES @mb444

lol.

Only a false flagging hindutva turd will come up with such poor psy-op tactics of lamenting that nothing can be done once the argument is lost.

At the very least it is the duty of any right thinking individual to redicule, object, resist and make a mockery of this nonsensical law

Go back to your hindutva playbook... come back with something that can not be deconstructed in a second.

 

[Ultima Thule]

lol.

Only a false flagging hindutva turd will come up with such poor psy-op tactics of lamenting that nothing can be done once the argument is lost.

At the very least it is the duty of any right thinking individual to redicule, object, resist and make a mockery of this nonsensical law

Go back to your hindutva playbook... come back with something that can not be deconstructed in a second.

I am not Hindu but Allhamdullah i Muslim, your post reported for abusing me @mb444 , what should we do if India will ban cow slaughter completely in their country Nothing @mb444