Breaking: Israeli military escalation in Gaza

[raptor22]

You're usually not childish like this, get your behavior together.

Stating a historic fact about this region and my country is childish to you??! not for me. Get your facts straight.

 

[Falcon29]

Stating a historic fact about this region and my country is childish to you??! not for me. Get your facts straight.

You need to grow up, that dispute isn't going to be solved on this forum on this thread. It's a dispute involving multiple nations and tens of millions of people. So if you want to argue over that, make your own thread about. My comment is specifying which Arab governments I was talking about.

 

[Falcon29]

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3 children killed in Israeli drone strike, Israel says they were 'terrorist planting IED's'(WARNING GRAPHIC):

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Israeli airstrike kills 3 boys aged 12 to 14 in Gaza

Palestinian medics say three boys aged 12 to 14 have been killed in an Israeli airstrike in the southeastern Gaza Strip.

Ashraf al-Kidra of the Health Ministry says ambulance crews are bringing the bodies to a hospital from the perimeter fence dividing Gaza and Israel, according to the Associated Press.

The Israeli army said an aircraft hit three Palestinians who approached the security fence Sunday “and were apparently involved in placing” an explosive device to it.

In another development, a Palestinian has died two days after suffering gunshot wounds in clashes on the Israel-Gaza border, the health ministry in the enclave said Sunday, according to AFP.
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http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...trike-kills-3-boys-aged-12-to-14-in-Gaza.html

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^^

What kind of army fires a missile via a drone on children because they are near the border? Keep in mind the IDF forces are situated quite far from the fence. Also couldn't you have fired tear gas or at least warned them to move away? Or worst case scenario fire rubber bullets at the feet? Is the first thing to think of is to fire a missile from a drone !?

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https://twitter.com/x/status/1056664887903035392

^^

It's very apparent these drone operators have a very problematic understanding of what defines an imminent threat ... this is down to green light they must have got from higher ups within Israeli army if not from defense minster himself ...

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Now: Demonstrations in Gaza city demanding a response from Palestinian militant factions

 

[Falcon29]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1056671372766629889

 

[raptor22]

On Topic:
Do you agree with this so-called deal of century? what about other Palestinians? Yesterday Oman sent its envoy to Romallah ... what is this heading towards?

You need to grow up, that dispute isn't going to be solved on this forum on this thread. It's a dispute involving multiple nations and tens of millions of people. So if you want to argue over that, make your own thread about. My comment is specifying which Arab governments I was talking about.

I don't want to drill your thread and also it ain't on topic but for the last word:
Persian gulf is international recognized name of this water body which very same Arabs were teaching their kids till 60s , even the leader of Arab nationalism like Nasir used this term for a long time, many Arab maps have used this name .. all Roman, Greek even Arab historians used this term to call the water body in southern part of Iran not to mentioned British and all other colonial powers have used this term in their maps ... So if there is anyone whom need to grow up and learn about history, international law and respecting other nations culture and history is the other side not me ...


The point is it wasn't Iranian whom called it Persian gulf but those who we fought with for centuries .. but seemingly they were much more fair in comparison with Arabs whom even changed their own history and facts like Yo Yo ...
For me it ain't important to see other call it with a different name, a cultural historical nation like Iran could make history again as it did it before we should cry river for those whom think they could make a reputation for themselves out of fake names and history ... these people need to grow up, Iranian never tried to change Arabian see name 'cause we are confident about what we are, we don't need to steal.

 

[Falcon29]

Israeli air raid kills three Palestinian boys in Gaza

Children aged 13 and 14 killed after Israeli forces bomb area in southeastern Gaza near the fence with Israel.

Three Palestinian boys aged between 13 and 14 have been killed in an Israeli air strike in the southeastern Gaza Strip near the fence with Israel, according to health officials.

Ashraf al-Qidra, spokesperson for the health ministry in the besieged enclave, identified the children as Khaled Bassam Mahmoud Abu Saeed, 14; Abdul Hameed Mohammed Abdul Aziz Abu Zaher, 13; and Mohammed Ibrahim Abdullah al-Sutari, 13.

He said ambulances brought their bodies to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir al-Balah in the central Gaza Strip.

Palestinian news agency Wafa said the Israeli army "reportedly opened fire toward the ambulances and prevented their access" to the scene of the bombing, located northeast of Khan Younis.

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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...ls-palestinian-boys-gaza-181028211536125.html

On Topic:
Do you agree with this so-called deal of century? what about other Palestinians? Yesterday Oman sent its envoy to Romallah ... what is this heading towards?

I hope this is a serious question as I've been polite with you. I think you know the answer to the first question. I think you also know based off reports there is no peace plan being put forth. It's an attempt by Kushner/Jewish Americans to give Israel legal status over West Bank settlements while try framing Palestinians as having rejected a peace plan and therefore world must move on. Whether some Arab governments will normalize with Israel following that is yet to be seen.

I don't think they will normalize with Israel in a public manner, such as having visits and announcing cooperation. They're instead going to cooperate with Jewish Americans and keep these relations under the table. And in public pretend they are concerned about Israel. I'm sure many influential Jewish Americans are advising UAE government, maybe Bahrain and Oman, maybe others as well. To not go public just yet.

I don't want to drill your thread and also it ain't on topic but for the last word:
Persian gulf is international recognized name of this water body which very same Arabs were teaching their kids till 60s , even the leader of Arab nationalism like Nasir used this term for a long time, many Arab maps have used this name .. all Roman, Greek even Arab historians used this term to call the water body in southern part of Iran not to mentioned British and all other colonial powers have used this term in their maps ... So if there is anyone whom need to grow up and learn about history, international law and respecting other nations culture and history is the other side not me ...
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The point is it wasn't Iranian whom called it Persian gulf but those who we fought with for centuries .. but seemingly they were much more fair in comparison with Arabs whom even changed their own history and facts like Yo Yo ...
For me it ain't important to see other call it with a different name, a cultural historical nation like Iran could make history again as it did it before we should cry river for those whom think they could make a reputation for themselves out of fake names and history ... these people need to grow up, Iranian never tried to change Arabian see name 'cause we are confident about what we are, we don't need to steal.

I think you should address relevant parties and not me. I can't bring an end to these disputes if I have no position of authority. If I have a position of authority in the future, you can talk to me about it. I also am not very nationalist person and see land as land, and bodies of water as bodies of water. I am against oppression and wrong doing everywhere, especially the organized Global Jewry campaign against Palestine which requires me to address it. But, am I a Palestinian nationalist? I don't think so, I don't care about cultural traditions or national anthems, flags, identity , etc... I'm more closer to Islam.

 

[raptor22]

Israeli air raid kills three Palestinian boys in Gaza

Children aged 13 and 14 killed after Israeli forces bomb area in southeastern Gaza near the fence with Israel.

Three Palestinian boys aged between 13 and 14 have been killed in an Israeli air strike in the southeastern Gaza Strip near the fence with Israel, according to health officials.

Ashraf al-Qidra, spokesperson for the health ministry in the besieged enclave, identified the children as Khaled Bassam Mahmoud Abu Saeed, 14; Abdul Hameed Mohammed Abdul Aziz Abu Zaher, 13; and Mohammed Ibrahim Abdullah al-Sutari, 13.

He said ambulances brought their bodies to Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir al-Balah in the central Gaza Strip.

Palestinian news agency Wafa said the Israeli army "reportedly opened fire toward the ambulances and prevented their access" to the scene of the bombing, located northeast of Khan Younis.

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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...ls-palestinian-boys-gaza-181028211536125.html



I hope this is a serious question as I've been polite with you. I think you know the answer to the first question. I think you also know based off reports there is no peace plan being put forth. It's an attempt by Kushner/Jewish Americans to give Israel legal status over West Bank settlements while try framing Palestinians as having rejected a peace plan and therefore world must move on. Whether some Arab governments will normalize with Israel following that is yet to be seen.

I don't think they will normalize with Israel in a public manner, such as having visits and announcing cooperation. They're instead going to cooperate with Jewish Americans and keep these relations under the table. And in public pretend they are concerned about Israel. I'm sure many influential Jewish Americans are advising UAE government, maybe Bahrain and Oman, maybe others as well. To not go public just yet.



I think you should address relevant parties and not me. I can't bring an end to these disputes if I have no position of authority. If I have a position of authority in the future, you can talk to me about it. I also am not very nationalist person and see land as land, and bodies of water as bodies of water. I am against oppression and wrong doing everywhere, especially the organized Global Jewry campaign against Palestine which requires me to address it. But, am I a Palestinian nationalist? I don't think so, I don't care about cultural traditions or national anthems, flags, identity , etc... I'm more closer to Islam.

Well for me there is no Arab leader worth of mentioning as far as there is no leader there is no resistance ... so be it public or behind the curtain nothing good coming from them .... American moving their embassy showed there is no peace plan just they want you to give up your rights ...Trump and Arab countries and their leaders aside what would be your respond to it? would you accept this fake peace offer or what?
For me the only way is resistance.

On Persian gulf, I am a proud Iranian and I do care about my historical heritage and culture while I am not blind to see everything through its glasses that's why I never tried to call Arabian see Persian .. Also I am Muslim and I see no contradiction with having Iran in my heart and being Muslim... As Muslim respecting others is a must be it their history or their culture so even on Islamic thought it is wrong doing ....
It ain't my business but not caring about cultural traditions or national anthems, flags, identity isn't good ... even if you take yourselves solely as Muslim then how you wanna defend it without culture? without your lands? without your traditions? we don't live in void ....

 

[Falcon29]

Well for me there is no Arab leader worth of mentioning as far as there is no leader there is no resistance ... so be it public or behind the curtain nothing good coming from them .... American moving their embassy showed there is no peace plan just they want you to give up your rights ...Trump and Arab countries and their leaders aside what would be your respond to it? would you accept this fake peace offer or what?
For me the only way is resistance.

Arab leaders are not 'leaders', they are spectators. Just managing the situation at home with help from overseas. Highly emphasizing 'security' and trying to see how populations react to new ideas, most of the ideas originating from the West. Turkish leader is Turkey first and does good for his nation, and the rhetoric intended for everyone else is just that. He is not going to risk his country's security in adventures in the region. He is not acting on blind feelings. Iranian leaders are also Iranian first, but also feel they have a duty towards Shia's of region. And it's their pathway into Arab world.

To me, some of these leaders do well for their nations, but I don't see them as leaders of Muslim world or regional leaders. None of them are able to resonate with all common people in the region. None of them to meet the tenets of Islam or fulfill their obligations as Muslim leaders. Them being Muslims doesn't matter me. They are no different than non-Muslim leaders. A Muslim leader is supposed to fulfill obligations of his religion and serve God. If they don't serve God, they deviate and we as Muslims won't achieve the necessary state needed for God to be satisfied with us and bless us. It's like a universal equation. However, where me and others have misunderstandings is what does 'serve God' mean and what kind of character a leader should have to be properly observing God.

That character can't be attained by anybody. You have to take first step towards God, and put in effort towards observing God. Example, now you are starting high school, your first challenge arise, will you fit in with cool kids who are observing misguided lifestyle or reserve yourself from this? You reserve yourself, well know you are not fitting in, can't find people like you to be friends with, you might become sad or depressed, you might be made of fun of, you might be in distress, but you remain patient because you realize you want to follow God and not this deviant lifestyle. God realizes your patience and what you're willing to endure for him and the truth. He begins to guide you to the truth, and he will test you more and more, and he will make a Muslim on the right path.

This is how our Prophet Mohammed life played out as a child. He didn't cheat, he is human like everyone else. But, since he was a child, he didn't stay around with the cool kids or observe the mainstream lifestyle at his time because he realized it wasn't right. Also in some cases he is exception and would get dizzy as a child in some gatherings that God didn't want around. But, anyway, then he became teen and young adult, and he endured the isolation/mental distress of following God, and being disregarded by his society, not getting any attention or praise, instead bad people were. Yet, he remained on this path even until he was 40, where Allah began communicating to him via Angel Gabriel and Allah rewarded his patience, and told him you are on the right path and the people do not know better. Through this whole journey(teen to 40), Allah guided him to the truths. This is why Prophet Mohammed had high ethics/morals. You should read more about his personality/character from the right sources to understand what kind of character he developed. That's the kind of character we need in a Muslim world.

They have no excuse for not putting the effort to worship God and follow his path. Because they didn't want to suffer. If you don't take the first step of suffering for God, you're not going to end up a proper Muslim. Our leaders wanted it the easy way, they wanted mass acceptance and fame. This is why they refuse to make the right decisions on many matters, for fear of losing this fame/acceptance that they really enjoy deep down. They love how people look up to them and treat them, and make them feel special. They like the attention they get and the praise. And they don't want to lose any of that. Meanwhile, the righteous leaders/servants like the Prophet's and four Caliphs and others cared more about following God than this silly need for attention/fame.

Keep in the Mahdi is going to be very similar to Prophet Mohammed and make same decisions as teen/young adult/adult and live similar lifestyle. And God is going to guide him through that journey. But he is not a Prophet or ma3soom, and will be younger age when Allah sets his affair(late 20's/early 30's).

So I do want an Muslim leader that observes Islam, and I think the issues in region are much more than just 'resistance'. We have to follow God, and even if these political issues are settled. There is the social aspect, we can still misguided Muslims even with complete security/power. Ultimately you want to follow God no matter what realities on ground are, because God knows better than us and he deserves our worship. And the endgame is be accepted and appreciated by him.

On Persian gulf, I am a proud Iranian and I do care about my historical heritage and culture while I am not blind to see everything through its glasses that's why I never tried to call Arabian see Persian .. Also I am Muslim and I see no contradiction with having Iran in my heart and being Muslim... As Muslim respecting others is a must be it their history or their culture so even on Islamic thought it is wrong doing ....
It ain't my business but not caring about cultural traditions or national anthems, flags, identity isn't good ... even if you take yourselves solely as Muslim then how you wanna defend it without culture? without your lands? without your traditions? we don't live in void ....

I understand your perspective on Persian Gulf and heritage. As for not caring about anthems and what not, I don't really value that stuff, some of it is personality. I just don't care about some things and doesn't necessarily mean I want to eliminate such stuff from society.

 

[raptor22]

Arab leaders are not 'leaders', they are spectators. Just managing the situation at home with help from overseas. Highly emphasizing 'security' and trying to see how populations react to new ideas, most of the ideas originating from the West. Turkish leader is Turkey first and does good for his nation, and the rhetoric intended for everyone else is just that. He is not going to risk his country's security in adventures in the region. He is not acting on blind feelings. Iranian leaders are also Iranian first, but also feel they have a duty towards Shia's of region. And it's their pathway into Arab world.

To me, some of these leaders do well for their nations, but I don't see them as leaders of Muslim world or regional leaders. None of them are able to resonate with all common people in the region. None of them to meet the tenets of Islam or fulfill their obligations as Muslim leaders. Them being Muslims doesn't matter me. They are no different than non-Muslim leaders. A Muslim leader is supposed to fulfill obligations of his religion and serve God. If they don't serve God, they deviate and we as Muslims won't achieve the necessary state needed for God to be satisfied with us and bless us. It's like a universal equation. However, where me and others have misunderstandings is what does 'serve God' mean and what kind of character a leader should have to be properly observing God.

That character can't be attained by anybody. You have to take first step towards God, and put in effort towards observing God. Example, now you are starting high school, your first challenge arise, will you fit in with cool kids who are observing misguided lifestyle or reserve yourself from this? You reserve yourself, well know you are not fitting in, can't find people like you to be friends with, you might become sad or depressed, you might be made of fun of, you might be in distress, but you remain patient because you realize you want to follow God and not this deviant lifestyle. God realizes your patience and what you're willing to endure for him and the truth. He begins to guide you to the truth, and he will test you more and more, and he will make a Muslim on the right path.

This is how our Prophet Mohammed life played out as a child. He didn't cheat, he is human like everyone else. But, since he was a child, he didn't stay around with the cool kids or observe the mainstream lifestyle at his time because he realized it wasn't right. Also in some cases he is exception and would get dizzy as a child in some gatherings that God didn't want around. But, anyway, then he became teen and young adult, and he endured the isolation/mental distress of following God, and being disregarded by his society, not getting any attention or praise, instead bad people were. Yet, he remained on this path even until he was 40, where Allah began communicating to him via Angel Gabriel and Allah rewarded his patience, and told him you are on the right path and the people do not know better. Through this whole journey(teen to 40), Allah guided him to the truths. This is why Prophet Mohammed had high ethics/morals. You should read more about his personality/character from the right sources to understand what kind of character he developed. That's the kind of character we need in a Muslim world.

They have no excuse for not putting the effort to worship God and follow his path. Because they didn't want to suffer. If you don't take the first step of suffering for God, you're not going to end up a proper Muslim. Our leaders wanted it the easy way, they wanted mass acceptance and fame. This is why they refuse to make the right decisions on many matters, for fear of losing this fame/acceptance that they really enjoy deep down. They love how people look up to them and treat them, and make them feel special. They like the attention they get and the praise. And they don't want to lose any of that. Meanwhile, the righteous leaders/servants like the Prophet's and four Caliphs and others cared more about following God than this silly need for attention/fame.

Keep in the Mahdi is going to be very similar to Prophet Mohammed and make same decisions as teen/young adult/adult and live similar lifestyle. And God is going to guide him through that journey. But he is not a Prophet or ma3soom, and will be younger age when Allah sets his affair(late 20's/early 30's).

So I do want an Muslim leader that observes Islam, and I think the issues in region are much more than just 'resistance'. We have to follow God, and even if these political issues are settled. There is the social aspect, we can still misguided Muslims even with complete security/power. Ultimately you want to follow God no matter what realities on ground are, because God knows better than us and he deserves our worship. And the endgame is be accepted and appreciated by him.

I am not in position to talk about him but my take is:
Prophet didn't became prophet due to his patient .. you mean anyone whom do the same from childhood to 40s Allah would begin communicating to them via Angel Gabriel and Allah would reward thier patience by appointing them as prophet? no he was chosen and purified (& his household) from any sin as God stated in his book. So it ain't about his patient though he was a human like all of us but God "will" was to appoint him as prophet and therefore raised him and put difficulties in his way first to make his character and also as Quran says as pattern to be followed ... Mahdi again has been chosen and will be "masoom" otherwise he can't follow and continue his fathers path .. generally as I said the only way is resistance which what prophet did in the first years of his prophethood ... be it in Sheib Abu Talib or in siege in Medina .. the point is if you believe in your way then you should pay the cost and that means resistance.

Sorry I responded in hurry so it's too short ...

I understand your perspective on Persian Gulf and heritage. As for not caring about anthems and what not, I don't really value that stuff, some of it is personality. I just don't care about some things and doesn't necessarily mean I want to eliminate such stuff from society.

Burn your ID card, change your name to Ibn Islam ... deny your mother tongue etc etc .... these are not Islam.

 

[Falcon29]

I am not in position to talk about him but my take is:
Prophet didn't became prophet due to his patient .. you mean anyone whom do the same from childhood to 40s Allah would begin communicating to them via Angel Gabriel and Allah would reward thier patience by appointing them as prophet? no he was chosen and purified (& his household) from any sin as God stated in his book.

Prophet's are infallible in conveying the message and from errors/sins. That being said, don't make mistake of thinking they are ordinary people who were just 'chosen' to deliver a message. No, like they are very different than ordinary people and lived differently, on purpose, before they were tasked with their prophethood. And so they struggled for God, and God eventually appointed them for matters. They are not fictional characters with superior mental prowess to everyone. Once you believe in that, then you believe in a fictional cult story. Prophet's had the hardest lives before Prophethood and this is confirmed in Hadith(at least Sunni ahadeeth but maybe Shia too). The next after them are 'Saliheen' or the next best, and that is what category the Mahdi falls in, so he is not infallible in our view in the sense he can't sin(especially before God makes him a Caliph among people). During his rule he probably won't make many mistakes, however, and by mistakes we mean that his decisions for Islam/Muslims/society will most likely always be the right to approach.

So it ain't about his patient though he was a human like all of us but God "will" was to appoint him as prophet and therefore raised him and put difficulties in his way first to make his character and also as Quran says as pattern to be followed ... Mahdi again has been chosen and will be "masoom" otherwise he can't follow and continue his fathers path .. generally as I said the only way is resistance which what prophet did in the first years of his prophethood ... be it in Sheib Abu Talib or in siege in Medina .. the point is if you believe in your way then you should pay the cost and that means resistance.

Like I said my friend, nobody is born the way you think. This is why in the Quran, Allah talks about how he 'guided' Prophet Mohammed numerous times. And how he led him to the 'Hudaa', it's a long process. So yeah he was infallible, but it took him to fully develop the rightly guided character, probably around adulthood. Now how Allah(SWT) guides them to this, is through tribulations and Allah knows best how he achieves this.

Prophet Mohammed is an example for us to follow, but we are really following the way Allah(SWT) ordains upon us. He led Prophet Mohammed to the 'right ways', to the fullest extent, which is why we follow him. In our time, the Mahdi will be the guy led to the right ways(by God) to the fullest extent, which is why God will make him a leader among the people.

Mohammed Askari doesn't exist, even according to some Shia source. But, I know you believe that, but you should know better than the story propagated amongst you. It is said he will come back to restore rights to Ahl Albayt. First of all, this suggest that Islam is less about worship of one God(Tawheed which was main focus in beginning of call to Islam) and more about being a religion of exclusivity to one family. Why would God make the focus of his religion upon exclusivity sort of like the Jews who believe their linage only is chosen and should be an example to non-Jews and what not. This should be enough for you to realize that narrative is wrong. Let alone that he is supposedly alive for almost 1400 years.

Secondly, Muslims were not meant to have perfect, rightly guided leaders forever. Why you believe that should be the case doesn't make sense to me. Like I said before, that is very fictional along with your notion certain people are born perfect and chosen. Allah(SWT) knows the future and everything that will happen, doesn't mean he helped the rightly guided by giving them superior capabilities. He did not, they cling to the truth more than others and are more willing to be patient against the consequences. In other words, they earn their status, which they might not even know and die in that state only to find out on judgement day that were among the 'Saliheen'. Mahdi may or may not know his status, but he will know the night Allah does grant him some qualities(he is exception because of last era of Islam) to help him face the struggle of leading at that time. But, for sure, he will not be infallible prior to that, in sense he will commit minor sins. That does not affect him being rightly guided, he will be rightly guided to a big extent, and might just be missing a little.

Prophet calls him in Arabic 'Rajl Saalih', not infallible. And also means the man is 'good' but in Islamic sense this is a big thing and not just 'good' like people think of it today. So I guarantee you will be wrong, and if it happens soon I want to see your reaction/perspective on this forum. Are you going to follow him or are you going to wait for the fictional, no problems, super handsome, super muscular guy that he supposedly will be? [/quote]

Sorry I responded in hurry so it's too short ...

That's fine, we don't have to debate these issues.

Ps: Ahl Albayt are not perfect people, there are millions today. And majority of them are Sunni. So coming from such linage will really not do you anything, it's up to you live the right way, and once you take first steps, God will guide. Just having linage will not help on judgement day. Is it nice to have such linage? First what is meant by that, because we all know many people today claim to be from the Prophet's linage because it is more special in their eyes, and it might reap them some societal benefits. That's not the right way to take pride in such linage. And actually there is no need to take pride, ideally.

 

[sammuel]

Why would God make the focus of his religion upon exclusivity sort of like the Jews who believe their linage only is chosen and should be an example to non-Jews and what not.
.

As a Jew ,i feel a need to explain my understanding on the meaning of the exile and return of the Jewish people to the promised land.

As is my understanding , the end of the Jews wandering the earth and the end of their exile is symbolic to the end of the exile of the human race. As all humanity is in exile whether spiritually or physically.

The end of exile of the Jewish people is supposed to for tell the redemption of all man kind.

If you noticed the theme of exile and return is major in the jewish religion , the every time it seems we are moving closer to salvation , we need to go another cycle of exile and return.

Here are the major ones :

The exile in egypt - return to the promised land

The exile in babylon - return to the promised land

The Roman exile - return to the promised land

I do not think there is one nation in history that returned from exile to their home land , not to mention , not once but three times. The last exile lasted almost 2000 years and jews where scattered all over the world from Africa to India , yet they returned exactly as it was for told.

I think even a sceptical person would have to wonder if their is not something out of the ordinary going on here.

And again this is meant to be a good omen of redemption to all man kind.

It is not about one side winning. It is about truth , love and redemption winning over.

Anyway this is my understanding , hope i made this clear.


~

 

[Falcon29]

@sammuel

Thanks, I did not mean 'chosen' as how some anti semites view it, but I meant in Judaism a specific linage is regarded as the believers or the ones with better understanding of God/more expectations out of them towards mankind. I don't really agree with that, as in Islam we believe it is a religion for all mankind. Shia Muslims on other hand put high emphasis on those Muslims that are descendants of the Prophet Mohammed. We Sunni's don't agree with that, instead we focus on core religious principles, at the time most important one was belief in the oneness of God. And we disagree with Shia beliefs that people descending from the Prophet have better religious knowledge or should be the only ones to acquire authority in Islamic world. So most of our differences are more theological than political, as we both agree Ali was in the right regarding a specific civil war. We disagree about what led to those events.

As for exiles, I don't know much about Babylon, but I know Rome was more like being expelled, am I correct? In Islam we do believe there indeed was a voluntary exile that God guided Jews to with Prophet Moses(out of Egypt). So we do recognize that he indeed did choose the Hebrews/Israelities or chose to guide them to monotheism and other matters at the time. As for as universal religion, I think for us that only was meant to come with Islam.

As for this part: 'End of exile supposed to foretell redemption of mankind'

^^

I don't know what that means, but can you expand on that? If it is what I think it is, we in Islam would disagree with that concept. Same way we disagree with Christian belief that Jesus is God or that he died for their sins and that God is about 'love' or whatever. Or Shia notion that Islam is about Ahl Albayt and that Mahdi will come to restore power for Ahl Albayt or whatever. Those sound like nice fictional stories of people who probably don't really believe in the idea of God and therefore want to create more meaning in this world or purpose in this world, because they don't have full faith that God will resurrect them after death and judge them. Another part they also don't like following puritarian monotheism because it may be seen as boring or giving up too much in this life for something they don't know or completely believe exists after death.

In Sunni Islam we reject all those themes, and are closer to pure monotheism and believe the effort must be put in to observe the tenets of Islam that we believe God ordained upon us. Even though this means we don't have a 'cool' story or twist to our religion that attracts the interest of people. However, there are Sunni Muslims who try to approach things like everyone else, where yes they proclaim to believe in afterlife and will work for it, but at same time they live as if they are not really sure, and thus try to make the most out of life. By tailoring Islam to their interests or making it what they want to be. So they tend to make Islam like a byproduct of life in their life, and will incorporate in their daily lives only in a way that will brings benefits.

This is where problem arises, when you try to incorporate religion in a way that makes your life more rewarding/fun, then you will disregard much of what is required out of a Muslim towards his faith/society/Lord. They won't incorporate the aspects of Islam that might make life harder, or make lifes journey more complex, or will be hypocritical in some of their positions because it may not suit their community, but who cares if it's not agreeing with Islamic theological approach. And so on, there are many examples.

So I think the reason for all twisting of religion is because people don't really believe in God and judgment day, but they want to retain religion as a culture byproduct. And especially today, followers of Abrahamic faith are very loose with how they observe religion, they disregard the general commandments , let alone the ethical requirements and so on. Thus you will see people still enthusiastic about religion because it has been incorporated in a way that meets what they want out of religion. It does not meet what GOD wants out of us.

So this is why I'm much against Shia sect, some Sunni sects, Christian and modern Jewish beliefs. They all derive from disbelief or uncertainty. And you can see that really easily, in Christian beliefs they do not like traditional Old testament and have new testament which emphasis God is 'love' and Jesus died for their sins. Which means you can lead life in any way you want and achieve acceptance from God. Which defeats whole purpose of God's revelations to mankind, where he sought to teach us a different path. For Shia I explained some of it. And same with Jewish.

 

[sammuel]

As for this part: 'End of exile supposed to foretell redemption of mankind'

^^

I don't know what that means, but can you expand on that? If it is what I think it is, we in Islam would disagree with that concept. Same way we disagree with Christian belief that Jesus is God or that he died for their sins and that God is about 'love' or whatever. Or Shia notion that Islam is about Ahl Albayt and that Mahdi will come to restore power for Ahl Albayt or whatever. Those sound like nice fictional stories of people who probably don't really believe in the idea of God and therefore want to create more meaning in this world or purpose in this world, because they don't have full faith that God will resurrect them after death and judge them. Another part they also don't like following puritarian monotheism because it may be seen as boring or giving up too much in this life for something they don't know or completely believe exists after death.

I am taking my time answering that , as this is a complex question.

First we need to clear what does it mean end of exile or end of times , cause i think every person has a different imagination of what this is supposed to look like.

From all i have searched there are parts there that are beyond human understanding that we can not even imagine how it would be.

Other parts are more clear , we are talking about times where there will be peace and harmony among people , a time of plenty with greater understanding of our place and purpose in this world.

~

 

[raptor22]

Prophet's are infallible in conveying the message and from errors/sins. That being said, don't make mistake of thinking they are ordinary people who were just 'chosen' to deliver a message. No, like they are very different than ordinary people and lived differently, on purpose, before they were tasked with their prophethood. And so they struggled for God, and God eventually appointed them for matters. They are not fictional characters with superior mental prowess to everyone. Once you believe in that, then you believe in a fictional cult story. Prophet's had the hardest lives before Prophethood and this is confirmed in Hadith(at least Sunni ahadeeth but maybe Shia too). The next after them are 'Saliheen' or the next best, and that is what category the Mahdi falls in, so he is not infallible in our view in the sense he can't sin(especially before God makes him a Caliph among people). During his rule he probably won't make many mistakes, however, and by mistakes we mean that his decisions for Islam/Muslims/society will most likely always be the right to approach.




Like I said my friend, nobody is born the way you think. This is why in the Quran, Allah talks about how he 'guided' Prophet Mohammed numerous times. And how he led him to the 'Hudaa', it's a long process. So yeah he was infallible, but it took him to fully develop the rightly guided character, probably around adulthood. Now how Allah(SWT) guides them to this, is through tribulations and Allah knows best how he achieves this.

Prophet Mohammed is an example for us to follow, but we are really following the way Allah(SWT) ordains upon us. He led Prophet Mohammed to the 'right ways', to the fullest extent, which is why we follow him. In our time, the Mahdi will be the guy led to the right ways(by God) to the fullest extent, which is why God will make him a leader among the people.

Mohammed Askari doesn't exist, even according to some Shia source. But, I know you believe that, but you should know better than the story propagated amongst you. It is said he will come back to restore rights to Ahl Albayt. First of all, this suggest that Islam is less about worship of one God(Tawheed which was main focus in beginning of call to Islam) and more about being a religion of exclusivity to one family. Why would God make the focus of his religion upon exclusivity sort of like the Jews who believe their linage only is chosen and should be an example to non-Jews and what not. This should be enough for you to realize that narrative is wrong. Let alone that he is supposedly alive for almost 1400 years.

Secondly, Muslims were not meant to have perfect, rightly guided leaders forever. Why you believe that should be the case doesn't make sense to me. Like I said before, that is very fictional along with your notion certain people are born perfect and chosen. Allah(SWT) knows the future and everything that will happen, doesn't mean he helped the rightly guided by giving them superior capabilities. He did not, they cling to the truth more than others and are more willing to be patient against the consequences. In other words, they earn their status, which they might not even know and die in that state only to find out on judgement day that were among the 'Saliheen'. Mahdi may or may not know his status, but he will know the night Allah does grant him some qualities(he is exception because of last era of Islam) to help him face the struggle of leading at that time. But, for sure, he will not be infallible prior to that, in sense he will commit minor sins. That does not affect him being rightly guided, he will be rightly guided to a big extent, and might just be missing a little.

Prophet calls him in Arabic 'Rajl Saalih', not infallible. And also means the man is 'good' but in Islamic sense this is a big thing and not just 'good' like people think of it today. So I guarantee you will be wrong, and if it happens soon I want to see your reaction/perspective on this forum. Are you going to follow him or are you going to wait for the fictional, no problems, super handsome, super muscular guy that he supposedly will be?



That's fine, we don't have to debate these issues.

Ps: Ahl Albayt are not perfect people, there are millions today. And majority of them are Sunni. So coming from such linage will really not do you anything, it's up to you live the right way, and once you take first steps, God will guide. Just having linage will not help on judgement day. Is it nice to have such linage? First what is meant by that, because we all know many people today claim to be from the Prophet's linage because it is more special in their eyes, and it might reap them some societal benefits. That's not the right way to take pride in such linage. And actually there is no need to take pride, ideally.

Do you consider Quran Massom ?

 

[Falcon29]

Qatar aid is reported to reach Gaza Banks soon, which will help pay civil employee salaries in Gaza. Around 30,000-50,000 employees. Israeli media falsely reporting that this is to pay Hamas officials. It isn't, Hamas officials and Hamas military wing is exempted and they have their own sources of funding.

A truce deal has not been reached yet, Israel has not agreed to anything. There are divisions within Israeli Cabinet.

Meanwhile a Palestinian has been shot dead by Israeli forces on Gaza's eastern border today. Israel claims they approached the fence or were in the area.