Brazil minister heads India to improve defence ties

[Nakki Nair]

Brazil, come on, buy some LCAs. Be a sport

 

[SQ8]

So my Indian friends.. tell us what you saw in the Rafale as we need some ideas on FX-2.

 

[Archie]

We need to make such stuff at home. Come on, we're making an aircraft carrier for heaven's sake! stealth frigates can be developed in-house if our dock facilities are expanded by sarkaris. IN is bullish about it and I have confidence in Navy's plans.



We could consider buying these specific components rather than the entire frigate which we already have made and is inducted and remaining are in the process of for the same.

Read my post again

I Had said that Indian Navy is planning to acquire 4 Frigates from a foreign vendor as a Hedge against a Possible Delay in P-17A and P-15B
They are meant to complement The 7 New Frigates and 4 New Destroyers which are planned to be delivered between 2018-24

This Purchase will ensure that Indian Frigate and Destroyer strength Does not fall below 21 should there be a 2-3 yr delay in P-17A and P-15B

 

[Yeti]

:03 GMT, February 2, 2012 BRASILIA | Brazilian Defense Minister Celso Amorim, arrives next Saturday (04/02) in New Delhi, the capital of India, for a series of meetings with officials and visits to military installations in the Asian country. The trip aims to strengthen bilateral defense cooperation between the two countries.

During the five days that he will remain in Indian territory, Amorim will meet with Defence Minister A. K. Antony, with national security adviser Shankar Menon and Prime Minister Manmoham Singh.

In Bangalore, the Brazilian Minister and his entourage - made up of advisors, the Air Force commander, Brigadier Juniti Saito, and the Chief of Joint Staff of the Armed Forces, General Jose Carlos De Nardi - will visit the premises of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is also planned visit to the 50th Parachute Brigade, an elite military unit located in the Indian city of Agra.

Member of the BRICS (Group of developing countries formed by Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa), India has one of the largest military in the world. Its defense forces consist of the Army, Navy, Air Force and auxiliary forces, such as the Coast Guard. The defense forces are subordinate to the president, as supreme commander.

The Indians maintain strong cooperation in defense matters with countries like France and Russia, but, like Brazil, are seeking to reduce their dependence on other nations by development of high-technology products and services for military use. The Asian country has projects underway to manufacture tanks, missiles and combat aircraft.

India has just completed a tender for procurement of 126 fighters for its air force, won by Dassault, the French manufacturer of the Rafale aircraft. Experts say the agreement provides for the direct purchase of 18 aircraft. The remaining 108 will be locally built with a transfer of technology.

The Indians also acquired Brazilian Embraer Legacy 600 jets, which are currently used by the Indian government to transport authorities.

STRATEGIC PRIORITY

The partnership with India, which exists in various fields, including defense, is a strategic priority for Brazil. The government understands that there is broad potential for scientific and technological cooperation with the Asian country in the military field, with the possibility of developing projects of mutual interest.

Among the topics to be discussed by the Brazilian delegation with Indian authorities during the trip include cooperation in naval sector in projects to build aircraft carriers and submarines of the Scorpene class, besides the expansion of the existing vacancies for exchange of military officers, and courses of higher education offered by the military schools of both countries.

The agenda will also include talks on partnerships between research centers, between Brazilian and Indian armies for the development of defense equipment that can meet in the future needs of projects such as the Border Monitoring System (Sisfron). The talks should also be addressed topics related to the respective air forces, as exchanges between schools of pilots, aerospace medicine, search and rescue operations and parachuting.

For Minister Celso Amorim, the visit to India will be an important opportunity to strengthen ties between the two countries on defense. The bilateral relationship in this segment began to gain strength from the agreement concluded in 2003 between the two countries in the IBSA group comprising India, Brazil and South Africa with the aim of uniting proposals on global issues and deepen areas different. Since the implementation of such a forum for dialogue, there were several bilateral defense events such as visits to the Navy, and meetings of boards such as the Joint India-Brazil Defence (CCD), the India-Brazil Joint Commission (COMISTA) and Defense Sector Group of IBSA.

Besides India, the voyage of the Brazilian Defense Minister includes stops in two other countries: Italy and Morocco. Amorim will meet on Feb. 3 with the Italian Defence Minister, Giampaolo Di Paola, in the city of Palermo. In Morocco, he will meet the ministers of defense, Abdellatif Loudiyi, and Foreign Affairs, Saad Eddine Othmani, on Feb. 10 in Rabat.

(Unofficial translation by defense-aerospace.com)

 

[sancho]

So my Indian friends.. tell us what you saw in the Rafale as we need some ideas on FX-2.

FX2 will be decided on costs, since the Brazilians have financial problems currently and their government constantly confirmed their preference of Rafale. Also IAF officials were in Brazil and discussed several points of both competitions earlier, so there is not much new to say about the outcome, since the reasons of any nation to select a fighter differs.
More important in this visit could be joint developments in the carrier field, since Brazil is planing to operate at least 2 new carriers in future and maybe even joined sub developments. Both navies prefer CATOBAR carriers, both navies has Rafale M on offer, both navies will operate Scorpene subs and SSNs are under development, so there are commonalities that could be used for deeper ties and co-developments.

 

[Kinetic]

India and Brazil have great opportunities to cooperate and develop future system together.

What India can offer?

Tactical ballistic missile Prahaar
Akash
LCH with Nag
Aerostat with AESA
LRSAM
Brahmos
Stealth frigate and corvette
Electronic warfare
NBC systems
Space systems

What Brazil can offer?

Civil/military aircraft development
air to air and air to ground missiles

 

[Yeti]

A-Darter is a fifth generation short range infrared homing air-to-air missile, under development by South Africa's Denel Dynamics (formerly Kentron) and Brazil's Mectron. It is expected to enter service with the South African Air Force, Brazilian Air Force.


We should join this type of missile project with countries like Brazil and South Africa not only to meet our domestic needs but we can also export it to 3rd parties in future.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

India and Brazil have great opportunities to cooperate and develop future system together.

What India can offer?

Tactical ballistic missile Prahaar
Akash
LCH with Nag
Aerostat with AESA
LRSAM
Brahmos
Stealth frigate and corvette
Electronic warfare
NBC systems
Space systems

What Brazil can offer?

Civil/military aircraft development
air to air and air to ground missiles

Also the famous Astros II MLRS

Astros_II_MLRS

 

[Kinetic]

A-Darter is a fifth generation short range infrared homing air-to-air missile, under development by South Africa's Denel Dynamics (formerly Kentron) and Brazil's Mectron. It is expected to enter service with the South African Air Force, Brazilian Air Force.


We should join this type of missile project with countries like Brazil and South Africa not only to meet our domestic needs but we can also export it to 3rd parties in future.

We can cooperate with Brazil but for short range AAM Israelis are the best. After fifth generation Python-5 I think now they are developing next generation Python-6.

Also the famous Astros II MLRS

Astros_II_MLRS

We have Pinaka for that. Also Pinaka-II under development.

 

[sancho]

We can cooperate with Brazil but for short range AAM Israelis are the best. After fifth generation Python-5 I think now they are developing next generation Python-6.

I recently read that they are developing a 6th missile, that could turn out to be comparable to MICA, since it might integrate passive IR and active EM seekers together in one missile. That means the missile in general must offer BVR range and high maneuverability at once, just like MICA. It would also offer the advantage that MICAs now offer, by fireing 1 missile with IR seeker and 1 missile with EM seeker, which makes it very difficult for the target to counter and jam the attack.

 

[KRAIT]

So my Indian friends.. tell us what you saw in the Rafale as we need some ideas on FX-2.

I have given this at every query where Rafale omnirole capabilities have been asked. Hope this will work for you. Quite a detailed analysis and many things can be taken for FX-2.

FLIGHT TEST: Dassault Rafale - Rampant Rafale

Cheers

 

[Kinetic]

I recently read that they are developing a 6th missile, that could turn out to be comparable to MICA, since it might integrate passive IR and active EM seekers together in one missile. That means the missile in general must offer BVR range and high maneuverability at once, just like MICA. It would also offer the advantage that MICAs now offer, by fireing 1 missile with IR seeker and 1 missile with EM seeker, which makes it very difficult for the target to counter and jam the attack.

Are you talking about dual IR and active radar seeker on single missile? MICA has them on two different missiles with almost same config except seeker. We can compare MICA-IR with Python-5 and MICA-RF with Derby. I think Python-5 is a better missile than MICA-IR.

US recently developed dual terminal seeker IR and RF technology for single missile.

 

[Tshering22]

I am optimistic about our ties with Brazil. Hope that UPA doesn't screw this up. The selection of Swiss PC-7 trainers over EMB-314 Super Tucanos was a weird decision. The Brazilian trainers can be heavily armed and have an amazing range and speed. They have successfully conducted numerous counter-insurgency CAS operations in South America for Brazil as well as Ecuador and Columbia. These jets could be used so well for both training IAF pilots as well as when they're not in training mode, we could deploy them easily against Maoists. With IJT-36, BAE Hawks, the STs would make a fine armed cum training addition to IAF's fleet of trainer fighter jets.

Since we already operate Embraer platform for our Airawat AEW&Cs, getting the STs would have made our fleet mode homogenous with an all-Brazilian sub-unit of IAF, making dealing with the contractors easier. Embraer has a strong and mature aviation industry. We should consider seeking technical advise from them as well.

 

[sancho]

Are you talking about dual IR and active radar seeker on single missile? MICA has them on two different missiles with almost same config except seeker. We can compare MICA-IR with Python-5 and MICA-RF with Derby. I think Python-5 is a better missile than MICA-IR.

US recently developed dual terminal seeker IR and RF technology for single missile.

Exactly, they want to use different seekers on the same missile and therefor might go with the same frame and propulsion as well, to have 1 missile for all kind of combats, be it WVR or BVR. The idea of MICA is the same, just that they have 2 separate seekers like you correctly said.
Python V might have some advantages over MICA IR in WVR, but MICA IR can also be used at medium ranges, just like MICA EM can be used in WVR. The French again went the "omnirole" or versatile way, just like they did with Rafale or with AASM, that made them so capable, but also costlier than comparable missiles, PGMs or fighters.