Brazil deals new blow to French Rafale sales drive

[Donatello]

The Saudis went for EFs, because it is meant to replace Tornados, their political relations to the UK (and bribery), so if the same supplier is a reason, UAE and Qatar will replace M2K with Rafale and Kuwait most likely the Hornet with the Super Hornet.
However, fighter competitions (especially in the Gulf countries) do not have much to do with operational requirements, which is why the real aims are different. Qatar according the recent news might go up from 12 x M2Ks to a fleet of 72 x fighters from 2 x different suppliers, following the examples of the UAE and Saudi Arabia, to get more out advantages out of US and Europeans.

Cannot bring in the bribery excuse here. Which nation doesn't do that?

Hint: Look at the recent deals made by India.

Kickbacks, bribes, subsidies.....what ever you call it, doesn't matter. Happens all the time. Just don't be stupid enough to get caught doing it.

your profitable platform didnt even made it to the 2nd round of the Indian MMRCA deal along with f18 superhornet. in 1997 an IAF mig25 deliberately did a sonic boom in pakistani airspace just to mock you and your f16 was not able to intercept it because it go only 56000 m up in the air against 65000 m of mig25. besides, even 126 jets are too much for the Dassault corp. to deliver, they have even stopped supplying french air force to complete Indian order, $10.4 billion deal, do u know how much is that money, its more than twice the foreign exchange reserves of pakistan.

Dear fellow,

Are you suggesting that IAF super dooper Mig 25 managed to skirt the boundaries of outer space? Because flying at 65,000m is not achievable by MIG 25.

That's the figure that should be quoted in 'feet' and not 'm = meters'


Since you don't know the technicalities of this discussion please refrain from showing your ignorance to the rest of the world.

I realize that Modern India has allowed many Indians to access the Internet and PDF, but please don't take it as your right to come here and post.

You don't need to broadcast your stupidity to the world.

Besides what damage did the MIG-25 cause? Did India find out something that it didn't know?

 

[sancho]

Cannot bring in the bribery excuse here.

Why not? They even got caught afterwards and that shows at least partially why that deal went that way.

 

[IND151]

i have said in another thread and i say the same argument here too.. Logically any program of an aircarft being designed and produced requires time and money. The number of aircrafts produced over time tilts the costing downwards what is known simply as economies of scale...

Now coming to present situation.. The deal holds not only significance to India but more to France...
Why to France
1. The costing needs to come down any ways
2. The proven platform needs wider acceptance beyond French Airforce
3. A 15-20 Billion scalp is something which makes ppl look at the bird second time to understand why India Chose it
4. The political ramifications are huge domestically in case the deal is lost
5. The scope of employment and the project future would slow down
6. European nations economic growth is somewhat lower than India which has a demand supply curve way for economic growth.. the supply is set to rise up so expect growth to pick up too meaning more budget for newer purchases
7. Scope of selling other weapon system like scorpene etc meaning new deals, money and employment guarantee for future

Why to India
1. IAF pressure as MMRCA is a long process
2. The concept of point defense by LCA Mk1 and MK2, air superiority by SU 30 MKI, stealth configuration via FGFA and omnirole via Rafale.. The rest of the birds what we have over time needs to be replaced and the birds i quoted needs to be manufactured as well as factor in delays in production & induction..
3. The political ramification of not able to close a deal making investment clause under the contract void and slowing the process of development of aero industry in India as private players first time had been roped in a big way.
4. The ability to partner with France and Dassault for further enhancing the bird and upgrades which can be more custom made
5. The continuous support of France for Permanent Membership to Security Council and the support at international level
6. The viable alternative to Russia and USA for defense purchases giving us the bargaining power
7. Utilisation of this deal to get newer things like investment of France on power projects via Areva as well as def purchases for Navy (Scorpene subs etc)

The deal just cant be thrown away. What is written till now on papers/media is nothing but false advertisement. The costs , capability etc are all myths and here say by fanboys and ppl. Every airforce of country would choose the best possible platform based on the budget, availability and country relationship resulting into political, economical and international stature gains. That is why Brazil choose Saab, UAE chose Euro Typhon, Pakistan choose JF 17. Each of the countries are smart enough to know what suits them best. There is nothing which may indicate an inferiority or superiority. Nobody should forget that all of them are machines and are under the control of a human being and brain.. So its the concept of best skill set which will prove the superiority. The country which invests in proper training, mock tests and big exercises would be better prepared then who does not. Hence the fanboys claim of any aircraft being superior or inferior is utter gibberish..

Let me quote a simple example.. If u buy a laptop of best latest configuration and give it to a user who does nt know how to utilise the lappy or has medium skillset or best skill set, u can automatically know what could be the result in each of the cases.

my understanding of a pros and cons analysis says india is signing a 126+63 followon order + a new understanding that Rafale would be upgraded from 4.5++ to much closer to 5/4.5+++ except certain stealth configuration which are not possible. the sweetening of deal is not known till some insider let us know.. but be certain, this deal is going through.. whatever negative publicity happens, its still and it will be signed between Dassault and India

This cost includes life cycle cost of jets and price for ToT.

This cost will be spread over several years.

Fools fools fools----PAF had that capability even before the 71 war-----our electronicsurveillance aircraft flew over your country without any threat of being shot down many a times. You only did it after 27 years later----.

Which type?

 

[shiv]

Which type?

NOTHING .. he just seems to have a bad stomach !

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Aeronaut, I think Thread served its purpose, should it not be closed now.