BrahMos From On High

[deckingraj]

That said...The fact that the video showed clearly a 'radar reflector' on the larger body begs the question: Why?...Meaning what is it about the seeker that DESPITE the presence of the larger body, why is there a need to enhance said body with a concentration of radar return?

Hey what version of Brahmos are we talking about the here??? Block I or Block II??? I am not sure but found this peace of information....

The Block I missile radar seeker is only effective against isolated targets as the missile was basically designed to attack ships. When confronted with multiple targets in the target zone, the missile homes on to the target reflecting the maximum amount of radar energy.

 

[shaktiman2010]

Radar reflector was placed to fool the Western experts. And it worked.

 

[deckingraj]

No intention to troll here however a very simple question for DBC/Gambit...

Will the same argument that hypersonic speeds means more RCS and thue easy prone for counter attacks will hold true agaisnt the below given effort as well????

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...can-strike-any-country-less-than-60-mins.html

 

[dave]

why don't give free of cost to cuba. And see how Mr Gambit reply.

 

[jha]

^^^ i like IRAN better...venezuella can also be another good candidate...

 

[shaktiman2010]

Well, the direction in which US foreign policy is going, they are making almost all countries on earth their enemies.

So, US will always require hundreds of missiles to destroy the earth. But can their anti-missile system save them from Chinese+Russian missiles? I doubt.

So, better make friends. Why talk silly about Brahmos and anger Indians so they go for ICBM? That will only increase problems for US.

 

[ironman]

Radar reflector was placed to fool the Western experts. And it worked.

Lol...

 

[Kinetic]

Well, the direction in which US foreign policy is going, they are making almost all countries on earth their enemies.

So, US will always require hundreds of missiles to destroy the earth. But can their anti-missile system save them from Chinese+Russian missiles? I doubt.

So, better make friends. Why talk silly about Brahmos and anger Indians so they go for ICBM? That will only increase problems for US.

US sees everyone as their enemy!! BTW one or two members here do not mean they represent US. India already developing ICBM as Agni-V. We will target US along with China, Russia, North Korea and Iran!

Radar reflector was placed to fool the Western experts. And it worked.

lol Good one mate.

 

[dbc]

I’d like to first address the low RCS claim, I assume all you proud Brahmos daddies have personally witnessed a test launch of the missile wearing your Sunday best, a smile on your face. I bet your heart swelled with pride as you watched your precious child soaring into the sky leaving a trail of white smoke.

The white smoke or missile plume is “the moving formation of hot exhaust gases (and often also with entrained small particles) outside the rocket nozzle. This gas formation is not uniform in structure, velocity or composition. It contains several different flow regions and supersonic shock waves. It is usually visible as a brilliant flame, emits intense radiation energy in the infrared, visible and ultra violet segments of the spectrum and is a strong source of noise”

-page 710, Rocket Propulsion Elements By George P. Sutton, Oscar Biblarz

Now before a proud Brahmos daddy gets upset or embarrassed and claim my Brahmos does not produce a plume, please understands that a plume is perfectly normal and is the expected result of imperfect combustion – all rockets generate a plume while the engine is producing thrust irrespective of the rockets nationality, yes Indian rockets aren’t immune unfortunately - don't believe me? here is photographic evidence from two Indian sources.

It is an established fact that the plume effect increases the radar cross section of all rockets. This has been established by radar observation of countless rocket launches and has been reproduced under laboratory conditions. If you don’t believe me because you think I have an anti-Indian bias then please read the below paper by an Italian (not biased American) researcher on the subject.

The use of the MoM for the RCS
calculation of the missile+plume system has finally led to
the following conclusions:

1) the effect of the plume generally provokes an increase in
the value of the RCS;
2) the resonance effect can be studied accordingly with the
particular system specification."
Plume effect on Radar Cross Section of missiles at HF band

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA447064

I have every reason to believe that the low RCS claim is false and a competent AWACS crew will detect launch and initiate counter measures.

 

[ptldM3]

I’d like to first address the low RCS claim, I assume all you proud Brahmos daddies have personally witnessed a test launch of the missile wearing your Sunday best, a smile on your face. I bet your heart swelled with pride as you watched your precious child soaring into the sky leaving a trail of white smoke.
.

The smoke trail burns out after several hundred yards.

Go to the 44:00 mark of the video, in it you will see a slow motion clip of the Brahmos just before it hits its target, no smoke is visible.

Now forward to the 2:35-2:37 mark, in it you will notice the smoke trail burn-out at the 2:37 second mark.

 

[gambit]

Erm, dood, refer to Newtons laws for the first para, kthx.

You should at least try to do better than that.

 

[dbc]

The smoke trail burns out after several hundred yards.

Go to the 44:00 mark of the video, in it you will see a slow motion clip of the Brahmos just before it hits its target, no smoke is visible.

Now forward to the 2:35-2:37 mark, in it you will notice the smoke trail burn-out at the 2:37 second mark.



YouTube - Brahmos' tests

Good catch "my interesting friend" , plumes that are invisible to the naked eye are still visible to the radar due to a phenomenon known as stochastic Bragg scatter. As an example thermal plumes that cause turbulence especially during take off or landing is visible to the radar while it is invisible to the naked eye. Regardless the launch has been detected....you can't throw Mach 3 or "TRISONIC" energy into the universe and expect the universe not to notice

 

[ptldM3]

Good catch "my interesting friend" , plumes that are invisible to the naked eye are still visible to the radar due to a phenomenon known as stochastic Bragg scatter. As an example thermal plumes that cause turbulence especially during take off or landing is visible to the radar while it is invisible to the naked eye. Regardless the launch has been detected..

Than can we assume stealth aircraft such as the B-2 an F-22 are also visible? BTW do you visit any BMW forums, considering you drive an M3?

 

[DMLA]

Good catch "my interesting friend" , plumes that are invisible to the naked eye are still visible to the radar due to a phenomenon known as stochastic Bragg scatter. As an example thermal plumes that cause turbulence especially during take off or landing is visible to the radar while it is invisible to the naked eye. Regardless the launch has been detected..

I would presume that all surface launched cruise missiles will have the "plume" at launch before jet's kick in and thus liable to detection as per your argument.

tomohawk...

granit...

babur...

This is nothing specific to Brahmos.

 

[gambit]

Hey what version of Brahmos are we talking about the here??? Block I or Block II??? I am not sure but found this peace of information....

The Block I missile radar seeker is only effective against isolated targets as the missile was basically designed to attack ships. When confronted with multiple targets in the target zone, the missile homes on to the target reflecting the maximum amount of radar energy.

Take note of the highlighted. It is instructive.

Why should the missile home in on the largest radar return when confronted with multiple radar returns? Because the assumption here is that the largest radar return is most likely a capital ship, like an aircraft carrier. However, if the fleet is forewarned by AWACS that there is an approaching hostile aircraft that has all the behaviorial characteristics of a cruise missile, then the fleet can deploy enough seduction/distraction chaff/flare defense to totally blanket the electronic view of the missile's seeker. Those chaff blooms qualifies as the largest radar return the missile will see, thereby misleading the missile.