BRAHMOS 2

[ironman1]

come on , you believe so ?

brahmos-2 is a scramjet based system, but first it has to be put into higher altitude for it. you can do it by rocket or an aircraft with hypersonic vehicle hitching a ride on it. whether sukhoi will managae it depends on its weight , that we'll know later on .

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

brahmos-2 is a scramjet based system, but first it has to be put into higher altitude for it. you can do it by rocket or an aircraft with hypersonic vehicle hitching a ride on it. whether sukhoi will managae it depends on its weight , that we'll know later on .

I think putting the vehicle to supersonic speed is required to ignite the engine and altitude doe not matter as air is required for the engine to function.

 

[ironman1]

I think putting the vehicle to supersonic speed is required to ignite the engine and altitude doe not matter as air is required for the engine to function.

yes it does. but we need a medium for it to reach a flight altitude and it is easier to go supersonic when we fly with gravity !

i picked something from wiki

Due to the nature of their design, scramjet operation is limited to near-hypersonic velocities. As they lack mechanical compressors, scramjets require the high kinetic energy of a hypersonic flow to compress the incoming air to operational conditions. Thus, a scramjet-powered vehicle must be accelerated to the required velocity by some other means of propulsion, such as turbojet, railgun, or rocket engines.[3] In the flight of the experimental scramjet-powered Boeing X-51A, the test craft was lifted to flight altitude by a Boeing B-52 Stratofortress before being released and accelerated by a detachable rocket to near Mach 4.5


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramjet

 

[Kloitra]

yes it does. but we need a medium for it to reach a flight altitude and it is easier to go supersonic when we fly with gravity !

i picked something from wiki

Due to the nature of their design, scramjet operation is limited to near-hypersonic velocities. As they lack mechanical compressors, scramjets require the high kinetic energy of a hypersonic flow to compress the incoming air to operational conditions. Thus, a scramjet-powered vehicle must be accelerated to the required velocity by some other means of propulsion, such as turbojet, railgun, or rocket engines.[3] In the flight of the experimental scramjet-powered Boeing X-51A, the test craft was lifted to flight altitude by a Boeing B-52 Stratofortress before being released and accelerated by a detachable rocket to near Mach 4.5


Scramjet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The altitude is required, as maintaining supersonic/hypersonic at near sea level atmospheric pressure puts stress on both the engine and the airframe.

Because of drag, more power is required to maintain high velocities compared to that in low pressure (high altitude) flight paths. Drag also results in heating of airframe. Aircrafts, military or civilian, cruise at high altitudes for this reason. Also, the max velocities are different for different altitudes.

But this is when fuel economy is needed, and stress on airframe is a concern. Most terrain hugging cruise missile go near 0.8 mach while a civilian airliner cruises at same speed at high altitudes. It is because in case of cruise missiles, fuel economy is secondary.

Bhrahmos operate on ram jet, yet it can maintain low flight path. But it consumes much more fuel than convectional sub-sonic cruise missile, hence the size.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

The altitude is required, as maintaining supersonic/hypersonic at near sea level atmospheric pressure puts stress on both the engine and the airframe.

Because of drag, more power is required to maintain high velocities compared to that in low pressure (high altitude) flight paths. Drag also results in heating of airframe. Aircrafts, military or civilian, cruise at high altitudes for this reason. Also, the max velocities are different for different altitudes.

But this is when fuel economy is needed, and stress on airframe is a concern. Most terrain hugging cruise missile go near 0.8 mach while a civilian airliner cruises at same speed at high altitudes. It is because in case of cruise missiles, fuel economy is secondary.

Bhrahmos operate on ram jet, yet it can maintain low flight path. But it consumes much more fuel than convectional sub-sonic cruise missile, hence the size.

If brahmos can work at low altitude while maintaining supersonic speeds, a hypersonic missile will also be able to work, provided strengthening of body frame will be required. Higher the altitude less denser will be the air, it might affect the efficiency of the engine. May be a trade off is chosen to maintain a balance between the two.

 

[Arefin007]

brahmos2 hcm when developed would be an extremely lethal weapon competing on global stage with the likes of x51 waverider dfzf yu71 zircon

 

[Safriz]

brahmos2 hcm when developed would be an extremely lethal weapon competing on global stage with the likes of x51 waverider dfzf yu71 zircon

Point being "when developed".

 

[ranadd]

Point being "when developed".

Actual point is, it will be tested by Q2-Q3 2018.

 

[Arefin007]

zircon missile used by russians to develop brahmos2 has already reached mach 8 speed

 

[amardeep mishra]

Point being "when developed".

As soon as the burning can be prolonged in the combustion chamber of our scramjet engine. India has done a lot of research in scramjet engine. Infact both DRDO and ISRO have their own independent scramjet engine program. To be brutally honest though,I dont see a test flight of this "scramjet based" brahmos within next 5 years at least! However we would definitely see ISRO and DRDO gradually prolonging the duration of combustion in scramjet engine.

 

[ashok321]

DRDO has reportedly been working with NPO Mashinostroyenia of Russia to develop the second generation Brahmos cruise missile powered by a scramjet, dubbed the Brahmos-II. Brahmos-II is being designed to be capable of flying 300 odd kilometers at a speed of Mach 7.

 

[Kinetic]

zircon missile used by russians to develop brahmos2 has already reached mach 8 speed

zircon and Brahmos-2 are different missiles.

brahmos 2

zircon

 

[randomradio]

As soon as the burning can be prolonged in the combustion chamber of our scramjet engine. India has done a lot of research in scramjet engine. Infact both DRDO and ISRO have their own independent scramjet engine program. To be brutally honest though,I dont see a test flight of this "scramjet based" brahmos within next 5 years at least! However we would definitely see ISRO and DRDO gradually prolonging the duration of combustion in scramjet engine.

There are two hypersonic Brahmos designs.

One is an enhanced ramjet which will take the missile to mach 5.5. The second is this UCAV version which will be anywhere between mach 9 and mach 13.

So we will be seeing the enhanced ramjet version being tested first, possibly before 2020. The scramjet version, you can expect its first flight only after 2025.

 

[amardeep mishra]

There are two hypersonic Brahmos designs.

One is an enhanced ramjet which will take the missile to mach 5.5. The second is this UCAV version which will be anywhere between mach 9 and mach 13.

So we will be seeing the enhanced ramjet version being tested first, possibly before 2020. The scramjet version, you can expect its first flight only after 2025.

Hi @randomradio
I must confess I am not an expert in propulsion, whatever information I get is from my friends in DRDL or NCCRD(IITM). They(DRDL) have been facing challenges in terms of sustaining the combustion for any meaningful duration of time in scramjet engine. Brahmos Co in India literally has no research propgrams in scramjet.
And "practically" speaking I dont think we can fly a brahmos with "our own scramjet" anytime in next 4-5 years. It'll take at least half a decade for india to even test flight such a missile let alone induction into forces. There are a host of other issues that needs to be tackled some of them are-
1) Structural challenges--those pertaining to aero-structures that can sustain the aerodynamic heating .
2) Control challenges associated with controlling a missile in hypersonic regime. Even US has perfected it just now like maybe 5-8 years back,so no way can india do that in time frame you've envisaged above.
Since I am a control engineer myself,I can tell you a dozen of reasons why this is difficult,to put things into perspective--
(a) To implement any kind of control(whether linearized or nonlinear control) we need to have all the states available either measured/filtered or observed(estimated).
(b) It is very difficult to get an accurate air data reading in hypersonic regime from pitots--like how you do in case of any other aircraft.
(c) Angle of attack,side slip angles can not be measured accurately as well.
(d) It is because of #b and #c that you need to devise a mathematical framework known as estimation of states(or observer design).
(e) Since a lot of parameters in hypersonic flight are simply un-known and differential equations being nonlinear, it is advisable to use something like sliding mode control with adaptation law(popularly known as Adaptive sliding mode control) for controller formulation and a adaptive sliding mode for observer design as well(since velocity of the hypersonic vehicle cant be accurately measured). If we are little courageous then we can even use neural network based reinforcement learning-- if we are willing to let the system have couple of failures as well..lol! The convergence rate in adaptation laws is what makes the distinction between falling from skies and hitting the target.

The above mentioned mathematical formulation is much more complex than either proportional nav used in other tactical missiles or MRAC(model reference adaptive controller) used in modern digital FBWs.

 

[randomradio]

Hi @randomradio
I must confess I am not an expert in propulsion, whatever information I get is from my friends in DRDL or NCCRD(IITM). They(DRDL) have been facing challenges in terms of sustaining the combustion for any meaningful duration of time in scramjet engine. Brahmos Co in India literally has no research propgrams in scramjet.
And "practically" speaking I dont think we can fly a brahmos with "our own scramjet" anytime in next 4-5 years. It'll take at least half a decade for india to even test flight such a missile let alone induction into forces. There are a host of other issues that needs to be tackled some of them are-

Brahmos Aerosace's engine research is coming in from NPOM in Russia. So we are taking a shortcut. Scramjet Brahmos-2 will also use a Russian engine, but it will see more Indian input compared to the Ramjet Brahmos-2.

Our scramjet research is being conducted for our own designs, like the RLV.