Border Clash Between Afghanistan & Pakistan: Afghanistan Protecting TTP

[Chak Bamu]

Pretty sure Afghanistan will turn to Iran if we close borders, the best thing would be to Have a Hand in Talibans Government and we know who are expert in these areas. We can keep them at Knees if we know their Weaknesses. Cut the Aid, But do the Trade.

Just the extra cost of transportation would be expensive enough. Afghans use Pakistani facilities (travel, medical care, etc...) and problem with availing these would be serious burden on them. Plus Iranians are not friends to Taliban.

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

What sort of post is this? I shall be reporting such abusive posts that bring no value to discussion.

Seriously? Are you really from Pakistan or are you an Indian agent, spewing venom for it to be displayed as proof of Pakistanis' callousness? Chill man.

There are a bunch of pseudo fascists here. They'd join the KKK if they were white but unfortunately they aren't so they just cloth their leanings in Pakistani colours.

 

[Chak Bamu]

If PM is irrelevant, then it is even more bigger problem, a hemorrhage in running a country.
It means no institutional coordination and state has many cooks so state is bound to collapse.
Well, I do believe in God when I see Pakistan.

Well, whenever a PM tries to assert himself (or herself in case of BB), they get sorted out in no time. Why do you think Pakistan is in a position that we find it in?

NS wanted to engage the previous Afghan government. Just look at what happened to him. Afghan endgame was all that mattered. Now I am sure plenty of people who considered themselves uber-strategists must now be scratching their heads - a certain corps commander may have started losing hair already.

Though I enjoyed the Indian misery as the last Afghan govt collapsed spectacularly, I did have a feeling that what happened was wrong on some levels. How could Taliban be friends for Pakistan? Sooner or later they would follow their interests & Pakistan would be left high & dry. Now we are seeing what was bound to happen. Pakistan has little time now to act decisively without going over the top.

I want to say so much more, but it would stretch the tolerance of forum administration, so I better stop here.

 

[FuturePAF]

I am no supporter of IK. He could say or try to do what he likes, but he is quite irrelevant. He does not handle Pakistan's Afghan policy. I hope that those who do think a bit more before they act.

I think that helping replace ineffective Afghan govt with Taliban was a mistake and that we are seeing its after-effects. EIA is going to turn out to be a mean operator. We must act while they are weak. If we lose time, we would rue the inaction & indecision.

This is definitely the time to act, this winter, while they are busy dealing with the humanitarian crisis;

1. finish the fence (Afghanistan and Iran) once and for all, and build a no mans land a kilometer wide to prevent enemy snipers getting too close. Mining some areas if necessary, and putting unattended ground sensors in other areas (in no man’s land, and in the approaches to it inside Afghanistan)

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2. Build massive forts along the border on the high grounds (preferable in a star fort design so troops can’t be out flanked)
3. Put up enough remote gun systems at these forts so that solders don’t have to be exposed to enemy fire unnecessarily.
4. Equip forts with ISR and affordable precision attack systems, so fights are quick and decisive, and troops don’t have to peruse miscreants across the border.

5. find and eliminate miscreants in Afghanistan, wherever they are. If possible to some snatch and grabs, of the TTP leaders that are officially Pakistani citizens, to have them stand trial for the satisfaction of the APS families.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Well, whenever a PM tries to assert himself (or herself in case of BB), they get sorted out in no time. Why do you think Pakistan is in a position that we find it in?

NS wanted to engage the previous Afghan government. Just look at what happened to him. Afghan endgame was all that mattered. Now I am sure plenty of people who considered themselves uber-strategists must now be scratching their heads - a certain corps commander may have started losing hair already.

Though I enjoyed the Indian misery as the last Afghan govt collapsed spectacularly, I did have a feeling that what happened was wrong on some levels. How could Taliban be friends for Pakistan? Sooner or later they would follow their interests & Pakistan would be left high & dry. Now we are seeing what was bound to happen. Pakistan has little time now to act decisively without going over the top.

I want to say so much more, but it would stretch the tolerance of forum administration, so I better stop here.

If we close the border with afghanistan for a month and let the afghans suffer then the Afghan taliban will know that it is NOT in their interest to EVER make an enemy of Pakistan. Problem solved, somewhat.

 

[SIPRA]

We are managing this menace, since 1947. It changes color and shades, but, all the same, remains very much there.

 

[FuturePAF]

Thank you. This is the sort of post that adds value to the discussion.

It is a difficult border & it may be difficult to use loitering munitions along the length of it. But I think this is doable in select areas. After a couple of hits the enemy would change their tactics. The biggest problem is trouble-makers using civilian population as human shields. That would be a serious challenge that would remain. That is why IBOs are important. Pakistan must recruit informants (& also take care that they don't use PA to settle personal vendettas).

Technology may have a flip side - escalation of cost while the enemy remains low-tech.

If we challenge our companies to make the cheapest munition to do the job it could also have a lot of export prospects. Necessity is the mother of invention. The artillery our troops are firing and is also very costly, and may not get the miscreants, but smart munitions maybe more cost effective, and actually more effective in getting the target, and a good way for us to train in these kinds of missions. Also a fight would be quick like the drone strikes of the Azerbaijan/Armenia war.

A kill chain, with a spotter drone handing off the targeting data to a loitering munition, helps to train the whole team (it’s not just training for this mission, but potential the fight with India in the future) and raises the morale of the men; they know they will be avenged and that they have a fighting chance if they hold on, as drone air forces is always there. A game changer from the poor FC based that had to find a way to survive on their own for hours.

 

[Titanium100]

5. find and eliminate miscreants in Afghanistan...

This is pure retardation Pakistan has no jurisdiction in Afghanistan this will only piss them off and could be the only thing that could be a miscalculation.. What pakistan can do is ethablish extradition agreement with Afghanistan. But we will respect their territorial boundaries by all means

 

[Pandora]

Thank you for a reasoned reply.

Pakistan has to balance cost to Afghan civilians against risks of a conflagration on this side. Perceptions are important & Pakistan can not reverse course after OIC meeting. Pakistan must not appear callous while addressing the support Taliban have been providing to TTP. I think punitive strikes are a better option at this stage. Border closure for a day or two could perhaps be considered to send a pointed message to keep things from heating up too much. Pakistan must insist on concrete steps by Taliban govt with a threat of ratcheting up the heat. We must make it an incremental process otherwise we could look callous & reckless.

Taliban also have a perception & image problem for Afghan population. They must be perceived as protectors of Afghan land & population; otherwise they would lose respect & relevance. This is what is forcing them to react. But it is not our problem. We must handle the situation so that we do not let TTP militants get away with murder. That is why a targeted approach would be much better. I am sure Pakistan has an informant network & that it needs to prove its worth at this time. Shelling civilians when TTP militants use civilian population as human shields is a poor look & does provoke a response. Therefore it is important to have Intelligence-based Operations (IBOs) to deal with TTP. Civilians need not suffer in this & Taliban could be incentivized to look the other way when we kill TTP militants in Afghanistan without any civilian casualties.

Exactly make sure Talib keep good on their promise of land not to be used against others including TTP. We also need to utlise all pressure point at our disposal including economic loss by having border closure for a few days at a time every time the try to overreach. Reward good behaviour and punish for bad behaviour collectively. Even Taliban wont be able to deflect pressure buildup amongst common afghans who relly on Pakistan for everything. Afghan refugees need to be sent back granted in a civilised manner. We can use such incidents to transport them back to Afghanistan. We seriously need to condition the aid with action against TTP. It might sound callous but it is a whip we can utlise right now. Drones need to be put into service and TTP needs to be taken out without putting ground troops at risk. With comfusion regarding drone it will be easy for us to deflect it toward americans. We can use americans as a scape goat by comducting our own drone strikes.

 

[Chak Bamu]

This is definitely the time to act, this winter, while they are busy dealing with the humanitarian crisis;

1. finish the fence (Afghanistan and Iran) once and for all, and build a no mans land a kilometer wide to prevent enemy snipers getting too close.
2. Build massive forts along the border on the high grounds (preferable in a star fort design so troops can’t be out flanked)
3. Put up enough remote gun systems at these forts so that solders don’t have to be exposed to enemy fire unnecessarily.
4. Equip forts with ISR and affordable precision attack systems, so fights are quick and decisive, and troops don’t have to peruse miscreants across the border.

5. find and eliminate miscreants in Afghanistan, wherever they are. If possible to some snatch and grabs, of the TTP leaders that are officially Pakistani citizens, to have them stand trial for the satisfaction of the APS families.

The cost may be too high if we go all in with such a solution. There must be near-infinite hill tops & we could hardly afford such an ambitious course of action.

The proactive prescription is much better. Target TTP & force the Taliban to look the other way. If the casualties are low, they may not be forced to show a reaction.

In the long run, however, the war has to be fought on the civilian front: Pashtun population in the border areas must view the intruding Afghans as enemies, not brothers. There is precedence for this. In 50s, Afghan govt tried to intrude, but the tribal population gave the intruding Afghan army a good spanking while supporting Pakistan army. This needs to be repeated enough times until some sense is knocked in to the adventurous jingos on the other side.

This is pure retardation Pakistan has no jurisdiction in Afghanistan this will only piss them off and could be the only thing that could be a miscalculation.. What pakistan can do is ethablish extradition agreement with Afghanistan. But we will respect their territorial boundaries by all means

If they would not do it, we will have to do it. There is international precedent for such a course of action. If we are afraid of them being pissed off then we have already lost. This is a tough neighborhood, not European Union.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Why are we surprised? Afghan has a pathology of sorts when it comes to Pakistan. It will not change with who is in charge. It is a feeling at a local people level. Pakistanis need to realize pure and simple, most Afghans covet Pakistani land, towns, villages, cities. With an expansionist mindset like that which has been a hallmark for Afghans since before the time of the Mughals, why will anyone think it will end. Afghans have and have had a raider mindset as far back as you can think. Till Afghanistan has something of value of her own she will continue in this manner.

 

[FuturePAF]

This is pure retardation Pakistan has no jurisdiction in Afghanistan this will only piss them off and could be the only thing that could be a miscalculation.. What pakistan can do is ethablish extradition agreement with Afghanistan. But we will respect their territorial boundaries by all means

It’s an option, if the other options fail. I agree it’s an option that shouldn’t be done lightly, but should be kept in mind if all else fails. But I agree, in general we should respect their border if they respect ours.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Exactly make sure Talib keep good on their promise of land not to be used against others including TTP. We also need to utlise all pressure point at our disposal including economic loss by having border closure for a few days at a time every time the try to overreach. Reward good behaviour and punish for bad behaviour collectively. Even Taliban wont be able to deflect pressure buildup amongst common afghans who relly on Pakistan for everything. Afghan refugees need to be sent back granted in a civilised manner. We can use such incidents to transport them back to Afghanistan. We seriously need to condition the aid with action against TTP. It might sound callous but it is a whip we can utlise right now. Drones need to be put into service and TTP needs to be taken out without putting ground troops at risk. With comfusion regarding drone it will be easy for us to deflect it toward americans. We can use americans as a scape goat by comducting our own drone strikes.

Agree, except that using Americans as scapegoats will have serious consequences. It may work once or twice but we shall have to own our actions.

 

[Titanium100]

If they would not do it, we will have to do it. There is international precedent for such a course of action. If we are afraid of them being pissed off then we have already lost. This is a tough neighborhood, not European Union.

We should avoid miscalculation.. Besides respect can only achieved mutual in this region. Nobody on earth can pressure Afghanistan but the thing is this they ain't interested in conflicts and don't want this.. Hence this is a good gesture not a weakness they don't want to share border with Gangus don't misunderstand them.. They aren't really intimidated by wars or what not they will have nothing to lose.. Keep this in mind..

Besides Afghanistan is a major ally for our eastern borders we need that extra manpower they provide

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

This is pure retardation Pakistan has no jurisdiction in Afghanistan this will only piss them off and could be the only thing that could be a miscalculation.. What pakistan can do is ethablish extradition agreement with Afghanistan. But we will respect their territorial boundaries by all means

ONLY if the afghans respect Pakistani territorial boundaries.