Bomb from Pak: We will hit back

[deckingraj]

This is unrealistic . I have often wondered why the Pakistani experts say -- They would first explode a nuke device on their own soil , then on the invading forces , then on enemy territory , military installations , then on civilian centres and so on ....

The common standard doctrine of first strike -- the world around , like for instance . U.S , NATO is a massive strike aiming to cripple an adversary's strategic assets as much as possible.

After using a nuke on Indian forces , how can Pakistani Thinktanks not guarantee a response , or base their strategies upon the fact that a response will be limited or some kind of a limited scenario ???

Exploding a nuke in the first place , cannot possibly be done as a warning , but always a full fledged attack/defense ....

So a first strike is always designed to inflict maximum damage -- and will always be aimed at critical opposing territory. Pakistan would be no exception to this line of thinking ....

Exactly, this is the same point that i raised many times when we were discussing about so-called tactical nuke missile...The line of thought was that it would be stupid to use this missile...Better go for a massive first strike and hope that it damages most of the retaliation capability....

 

[notorious_eagle]

Exactly, this is the same point that i raised many times when we were discussing about so-called tactical nuke missile...The line of thought was that it would be stupid to use this missile...Better go for a massive first strike and hope that it damages most of the retaliation capability....

Look at it this way, this nuke is more of an insurance. If the Indian IBG's manage to break through and are on their way to capture an important strategic point, this nuke will be fired off at the advancing IBG. This will be a message to India that Pakistan has reached its nuclear threshold limit, thus it will be up to India to up the ante or not. As soon as this tactical nuke will be fired off, mostly likely the message will go out to prepare and get the strategic nukes ready. After Pakistan explodes the tactical nuke, it takes time for India to assemble its strategic nukes and get them ready. Thus most likely, both nations will have their strategic nukes ready by the same time.

The decision will up to the Indian High Command whether they want to turn this into a nuclear holocaust or not. If they are smart they will call back their invading forces, but if they want to retaliate in full force, it will ensure the destruction of South Asia. As soon as your strategic nukes appear on Pakistan's radar screens, expect Pakistan to unleash all its nukes towards India. Thus, this tactical nuke makes sense because its the insurance policy Pakistan wants to tame India's Cold Start Doctrine. A first overwhelming strike from Pakistan will ensure that South Asia will be fried up. Also pre-emptive strike is out of the question because both the assembly of strategic nukes is impossible to hide, the eye in the sky and human intel on ground will ensure that an activity like this is not gone un-noticed.

 

[axisofevil]

Informing Pakistan woud allow them to hide key members who may be aligned to the ISI. In order to fully execute the above plan, we need real time satelite surveillance and humnit to get evidence of such actions. Above all, we need to make sure there are no mistakes in such accusations. A repest of the 26/11 list mishandling cannot be repeated.

 

[deckingraj]

Buddy i have so much respect for you but i am sorry this logic does not go in my head.....Ok Let me ask you some questions...

Look at it this way, this nuke is more of an insurance. If the Indian IBG's manage to break through and are on their way to capture an important strategic point, this nuke will be fired off at the advancing IBG. This will be a message to India that Pakistan has reached its nuclear threshold limit, thus it will be up to India to up the ante or not.

What is that nuclear threshold??? Are you saying that Pak has lowered her nuclear threshold than what it was earlier??? If not then we anyways were not going to cross the nuclear threshold....

As soon as this tactical nuke will be fired off, mostly likely the message will go out to prepare and get the strategic nukes ready. After Pakistan explodes the tactical nuke, it takes time for India to assemble its strategic nukes and get them ready. Thus most likely, both nations will have their strategic nukes ready by the same time.

Do you see how many assumptions you have taken???? B/w pardon my lack of knowledge but are tactical nukes always in the state to lauch???

The decision will up to the Indian High Command whether they want to turn this into a nuclear holocaust or not. If they are smart they will call back their invading forces, but if they want to retaliate in full force, it will ensure the destruction of South Asia. As soon as your strategic nukes appear on Pakistan's radar screens, expect Pakistan to unleash all its nukes towards India. Thus, this tactical nuke makes sense because its the insurance policy Pakistan wants to tame India's Cold Start Doctrine. A first overwhelming strike from Pakistan will ensure that South Asia will be fried up. Also pre-emptive strike is out of the question because both the assembly of strategic nukes is impossible to hide, the eye in the sky and human intel on ground will ensure that an activity like this is not gone un-noticed.

And the same thing will go unnoticed for India when Pak plans to use tactical nukes?? Anyhow let me assume whatever you said is true and both countries prepare their nukes at the same time, India fire her nukes and the moment our nukes appear on your radar you unleash yours...result Pakistan fried up India fried up...Now question is why to let India fry Pakistan...why not unleash that from the word go, because you are assuming that India will act wise and will not retaliate....In short even if Pak use a tactical nuke on our forces India will still not use her nukes....this is big assumption and have the same flaw that you guys criticize cold start for - which is gauging enemy's response....

Also what about if India use a similar tactical nuke???

 

[ares]

Look at it this way, this nuke is more of an insurance. If the Indian IBG's manage to break through and are on their way to capture an important strategic point, this nuke will be fired off at the advancing IBG. This will be a message to India that Pakistan has reached its nuclear threshold limit, thus it will be up to India to up the ante or not. As soon as this tactical nuke will be fired off, mostly likely the message will go out to prepare and get the strategic nukes ready. After Pakistan explodes the tactical nuke, it takes time for India to assemble its strategic nukes and get them ready. Thus most likely, both nations will have their strategic nukes ready by the same time.

The decision will up to the Indian High Command whether they want to turn this into a nuclear holocaust or not. If they are smart they will call back their invading forces, but if they want to retaliate in full force, it will ensure the destruction of South Asia. As soon as your strategic nukes appear on Pakistan's radar screens, expect Pakistan to unleash all its nukes towards India. Thus, this tactical nuke makes sense because its the insurance policy Pakistan wants to tame India's Cold Start Doctrine. A first overwhelming strike from Pakistan will ensure that South Asia will be fried up. Also pre-emptive strike is out of the question because both the assembly of strategic nukes is impossible to hide, the eye in the sky and human intel on ground will ensure that an activity like this is not gone un-noticed.

One Question

For arguments sake, what will be your response if instead of an asymmetrical response..we decide to give you symmetric response and tac-nuke one your of army divsions..just to even out the odds?

 

[deckingraj]

Informing Pakistan woud allow them to hide key members who may be aligned to the ISI. In order to fully execute the above plan, we need real time satelite surveillance and humnit to get evidence of such actions. Above all, we need to make sure there are no mistakes in such accusations. A repest of the 26/11 list mishandling cannot be repeated.

Talks doesn't necessarily mean you tell the address where and whom you are going to hit...It can also be like - Look i have no option left now....Sorry but can't help...

The intention has been made clear...Our attack is not against Pakistan but since GOP is not able to fix her side we need to act....

Note : This is my hypothesis ....

 

[notorious_eagle]

Buddy i have so much respect for you but i am sorry this logic does not go in my head.....Ok Let me ask you some questions...

Feelings mutual, glad that your not a fanboy

What is that nuclear threshold??? Are you saying that Pak has lowered her nuclear threshold than what it was earlier??? If not then we anyways were not going to cross the nuclear threshold....

You breach the N5 highway cutting off Islamabad and Karachi, you have reached Pakistan's nuclear threshold. I was just giving you an example in the previous post, Pakistan's nuclear threshold will be crossed when the country is on the brink of collapse under the face of advancing Indian Armour Formations.

Do you see how many assumptions you have taken???? B/w pardon my lack of knowledge but are tactical nukes always in the state to lauch???

They are small and fast to assemble, can be mobilized at a much quicker pace as compared to strategic nukes which are big and take time. Tactical nukes are likely going to be deployed on the battlefield under the command of most likely a Colonel or a Brigadier whom is the leading officer of the theatre. Thus, most likely tactical nukes will always be assembled and during a period of tense stand off will be under the command of the leading officer of the theatre. Strategic nukes for security purpose are always kept in components and usually away from each other for security reasons.

And the same thing will go unnoticed for India when Pak plans to use tactical nukes?? Anyhow let me assume whatever you said is true and both countries prepare their nukes at the same time, India fire her nukes and the moment our nukes appear on your radar you unleash yours...result Pakistan fried up India fried up...Now question is why to let India fry Pakistan...why not unleash that from the word go, because you are assuming that India will act wise and will not retaliate....In short even if Pak use a tactical nuke on our forces India will still not use her nukes....this is big assumption and have the same flaw that you guys criticize cold start for - which is gauging enemy's response....

Not possible, India is too big and Indian nukes are well hidden underground to withstand a first strike nuclear attack from Pakistan. Similarly, Pakistan's nukes are hidden well underground to withstand an Indian nuclear attack. Also keep in mind the Indian Nuclear Submarines are coming operational soon thus India maintains a second strike capability, thus Pakistan does not has the necessary firepower to tame India's nuclear arsenal. In fact, not even China can tame India's nuclear arsenal in first strike. The only country that can achieve this feat is the US, but chances of US nuking India are close to nil.

Also what about if India use a similar tactical nuke???

In Pakistan's territory, that would be the declaration of a nuclear war. Pakistan intends to use a tactical nuke on her territory, not India's.

One Question

For arguments sake, what will be your response if instead of an asymmetrical response..we decide to give you symmetric response and tac-nuke one your of army divsions..just to even out the odds?

In our territory, that would be declaration of a nuclear war as i mentioned before.

 

[ares]

In our territory, that would be declaration of a nuclear war as i mentioned before.

Seemingly then your tac nuke does not give you any inherent advantage or even brings anything new to the table...

End result is much the same....rest assured once you use nuclear weapons against Indian cities or Indian forces..India will launch its nukes..however response can be asymmetric ..a massive nuclear strike against Pakistan or smaller tactical nuclear strike against its armed forces.

This is a part of India's official nuclear doctrine...ie the Indian threshold.

The sub-paragraph of interest of the press release subsequent to the Cabinet Committee on Security endorsing the nuclear doctrine of 04 Jan 03 reads: “(ii) A posture of “No First Use”: Nuclear weapons will only be used in retaliation against a nuclear attack on Indian territory or on Indian forces anywhere; (iii) Nuclear retaliation to a first strike will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage.”

Reviewing India

 

[deckingraj]

Feelings mutual, glad that your not a fanboy

...

You breach the N5 highway cutting off Islamabad and Karachi, you have reached Pakistan's nuclear threshold. I was just giving you an example in the previous post, Pakistan's nuclear threshold will be crossed when the country is on the brink of collapse under the face of advancing Indian Armour Formations.

I am sorry but cutting National Highway b/w Islamabad and Karachi???? We reach there and you are going to use only tactical nuke??? Are you kidding me buddy....Are we crazy that we will go that deep in Pakistan against a terror attack???? May be you know something that i have no clue about but i don't see any offensice action apart from P-O-K...rest of the areas will be opened just to divide your response....Intention is clear...Get in there quick and then be punitive to the PA formations coming after IBG's to clear the area....

They are small and fast to assemble, can be mobilized at a much quicker pace as compared to strategic nukes which are big and take time. Tactical nukes are likely going to be deployed on the battlefield under the command of most likely a Colonel or a Brigadier whom is the leading officer of the theatre. Thus, most likely tactical nukes will always be assembled and during a period of tense stand off will be under the command of the leading officer of the theatre. Strategic nukes for security purpose are always kept in components and usually away from each other for security reasons.

Thanks for the info.....

Not possible, India is too big and Indian nukes are well hidden underground to withstand a first strike nuclear attack from Pakistan. Similarly, Pakistan's nukes are hidden well underground to withstand an Indian nuclear attack. Also keep in mind the Indian Nuclear Submarines are coming operational soon thus India maintains a second strike capability, thus Pakistan does not has the necessary firepower to tame India's nuclear arsenal. In fact, not even China can tame India's nuclear arsenal in first strike. The only country that can achieve this feat is the US, but chances of US nuking India are close to nil.

There is no way all the nukes can be knocked down...However i will reduce damage....

In Pakistan's territory, that would be the declaration of a nuclear war. Pakistan intends to use a tactical nuke on her territory, not India's.

How come...it is still a tactical nuke??? In short Pak using a tactical nuke on our IBG's not a declaration of nuclear war but India using a tactical nuke is one?? Are you saying unless and until a nuke is launched on enemy's soil there is no ground for nuclear war??? Anyhow this is all hypothesis...I am sure you are aware of our stated doctorine...it says any nuke attack on our homeland or against our interests will call for retaliation....

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Any attack on our land will be considered an act of war...........our policy...... u send ur troops..... we nuke em.

Dont cross LOC ur fine.

 

[ares]

Any attack on our land will be considered an act of war...........our policy...... u send ur troops..... we nuke em.

Dont cross LOC ur fine.

Don't harbor terrorist in your country..we won't need to send our troops.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Don't harbor terrorist in your country..we won't need to send our troops.

No proof........ Pak state doesnt support any armed struggle in india....its on record.

So if india attacks the STATE OF PAKISTAN tht will be considered an act of war.............

 

[The HBS Guy]

No proof........ Pak state doesnt support any armed struggle in india....its on record.

So if india attacks the STATE OF PAKISTAN tht will be considered an act of war.............

You are a very cute baby.

You also talk like babies.

 

[ares]

No proof........ Pak state doesnt support any armed struggle in india....its on record.

So if india attacks the STATE OF PAKISTAN tht will be considered an act of war.............

Time to hide behind such flimsy excuses is over.

if state of Pakistan is not in control of things in their country ie terrorist from all around world can roam scot free in your country with or without your consent... you are not a sovereign country anymore!!

We will be there to hit the terrorist and not state of pakistan..just don't stand in our way to protect them.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Time to hide behind such flimsy excuses is over.

if state of Pakistan is not in control of things in their country ie terrorist from all around world can roam scot free in your country with or without your consent... you are not a sovereign country anymore!!

We will be there to hit the terrorist and not state of pakistan..just don't stand in our way to protect them.

Be logical not emotional............ The world will support us in such a case........ If somethin like mumbai happens again ..... Which has no links with GoP..... Than u couldnt do anything........ why coz of world pressure........ coz the Pakistani state would not be involved......... so if u go ahead and strike violating the UN laws....... We wouldnt sit back........ And in such a case we would hit u back witj full force.............. the world would already not support u coz of ur illegal attack...... hence they couldnt stop us frm nuking ur soldiers on "OUR" soil (in worst case)................. And if ur govt is really stupid and goes nuclear ............. thn this will happen :