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Boeing Sees Two-Year Wait for World's Biggest Fighter Jet Deal

It has been shown that if you induct at least 100 aircrafts of a single type, there are no more synergies to be had by inducting more.
200 Rafales will have higher cost of operations than 100 Rafales and 100 Gripen E.
CAATSA would block LCA as well, since it is using the GE F404, and Kaveri is still far away.
F404 could always be replaced with a French or Russian alternative. If we induct more Rafales, the French govt would push Safran to fastrack the development of Kaveri along with DRDO/ADA and if India ropes in our private defense players

Fair point.I agree,but if we can't afford rafale then we might be forced to.
We should impose a self arms-embargo. We did wonders in space research and nuke tech during the time of sanctions and that is the only way to go if we want to achieve significant indigenization. We don't have a war coming anytime soon except for the war hysteria that media portrays and we should follow on the lines of China by achieving maximum indigenization by including private players and offering our products to foreign countries
 
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F404 could always be replaced with a French or Russian alternative. If we induct more Rafales, the French govt would push Safran to fastrack the development of Kaveri along with DRDO/ADA and if India ropes in our private defense players

Still looking at a number of years delay to all LCAs.
It would be surprising, if the Rafale is 100% free of US parts.
 
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I think being is very optimistic. I do not believe this will happen and USA will withhold vital tech transfers and India will big down negotiations
 
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US reputation has reached a point that no serious nation will buy their equipment if they fear getting sanctions. India will never again buy a major US weapon system. Nor will any other major natio

US is much boosted by selling billions of dollars equipment to Middle Eastern fools. Saudis recently inked 110$ billion deal so US really didn't need to give up her sanction threat while dealing with other countries. As long as their defense tech companies are making $$$ in the form of F-35s and Saudis , US Govt will boss around countries as per their liking.
 
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Rafale may have a few US parts but Gripen has most of it's major subsystems from the US
Nah, the engine comes from the US, but most of the imported stuff is non US.
http://www.airframer.com/aircraft_detail.html?model=JAS_39_Gripen

(Gripen C/D but not dissimilar to Gripen E vendor base).
It is enough to block one critical component, which is not easily redesigned, and the Rafale sale is a no-no.

The point is that if the US really wants to, it has power to put pressure.
Since the Presidents men are out seeking waivers, they do not really want to,
but Congress may spoil the party.
They may choose to spoil the Make in India, by blocking engine sales to India, but not block Aircraft sales containing said engine.
 
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Boing should see forever wait to any big tocket purchase from India specially if they are selling any non 5th generation fighter and USA expecting India to stop buying from Russia.
 
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If what you say comes true mate,no one will be happier than me.But i'm always 'skeptical' about our defence acquisition process.Lets hope.

We will know in about 2 years actually. By then, we will be signing up for 36 more Rafales (since we bought infrastructure for 72 jets) and the IN's tender winner will be announced by then.

Right now, Gripen E uses more advanced technologies that Rafale F3.

I agree. But the difference is not too much. I believe that in air to air, Gripen E will be better than Rafale F3+.

But that's irrelevant, we are talking about post 2025, so Rafale F4.

The Rafale F4, which would be the version catching up, only started development last year,
and is far far away.

It will take us that long to procure aircraft. Minimum 7-8 years to get the first jet from the 110 contract.

Saab is playing catchup, not Dassault.

It does not make it more advanced.


360 degree radar.

Why is the Rafale One-Way data link to the Meteor more advanced than the Gripen/EuroFighter Two-Way Datalink?

This is only one such advantage. Gripen does have some advantages, but Rafale's greater range and payload is more important.

Rafale will get a new radar anyway.

Why is it more advanced to require a full Rafale S/W requalification by Dassault to support new ordonnance? For Gripen E, India can write an App, with minimum support from SAAB.

Rafale is a stealth aircraft. Every time something new is added, it needs to undergo RCS testing so that the Rafale can maintain stealth with the new payload.

Gripen E will have to undergo the same circus once its ready since neither aircraft have IWBs. You can't compare Gripen C with E.

I doubt you have any real fact based comparision between Gripen E and Rafale to support your claims. And No, the Swiss evaluation does not count here, since they applied a derating factor on Gripen data, because it was not available. Come up with something better.

Rafale's engine is better. It ends right there.

Gripen E's TWR is really low. Its payload and range are too less. Its weapons layout is inferior. Too many reasons.

Other than that, Rafale is a proven aircraft while Gripen E's airframe has a long way to go.

The only tender lost was India, since it did not have an AESA radar in 2011.

Gripen lost due to other reasons, not radar. The AESA radar that Saab brought to the game was adequate. So was Eurofighter's radar.

Gripen is simply better bang for the buck.

We don't want a better bang for the buck. We want high end capability. MCA will be our cheap option.

The Indian government came under criticism for corruption because of the Rafale purchase.

It's nothing.

They revamped the Single Engine Project simply because otherwise they would have faced similar accusations. The Economic Facts have not changed.

No, IAF was supposed to have two different tenders, SE and TE MII. Gripen was supposed to participate in the SE MII, but IAF cancelled it and chose MCA instead. So that's gone.

TE MII is really a Rafale tender. The current tender is focused on the Rafale.

Gripen is only 20-30% cheaper than the Rafale. Not to mention, during MMRCA, the unit cost difference was only $3M.

The IAF has been told recently that India cannot fund their wet dreams.
A advanced single engine fighter at half the cost of a Rafale (total cost of ownership)
seems to be a much more attractive deal then.

MCA is even better in that case. We believe we can build a Gripen equivalent aircraft on our own.
 
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And the admission is certified, LCA Tejas are the biggest failures of India!
 
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Is that why IAF wants 324 jets?


I donot understand the inferirity complex in IAF and India in general, first they make LCA Tejas as some super human aircrafts, when it the project failed, India bought Rafale jets, and now even Navy is now looking at EF, Gripen, and F18.

Wants or not, India doesnot have money, how will it ever pay for 324 fighters?
 
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I donot understand the inferirity complex in IAF and India in general, first they make LCA Tejas as some super human aircrafts, when it the project failed, India bought Rafale jets, and now even Navy is now looking at EF, Gripen, and F18.

Wants or not, India doesnot have money, how will it ever pay for 324 fighters?

LCA as the name suggests has always remained a light multi role interceptor and not in the league of Rafale or SU 30's. Maybe HAL will offer a line of credit to the user.
 
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I donot understand the inferirity complex in IAF and India in general, first they make LCA Tejas as some super human aircrafts, when it the project failed, India bought Rafale jets, and now even Navy is now looking at EF, Gripen, and F18.

Wants or not, India doesnot have money, how will it ever pay for 324 fighters?

LCA isn't a navy fighter. And Rafale requirement is totally different from LCA.

What makes you think LCA failed? Again, why do you think we are ordering 324 jets?
 
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LCA as the name suggests has always remained a light multi role interceptor and not in the league of Rafale or SU 30's.
Maybe HAL will offer a line of credit to the user.

How will HAL offer a line of credit, has it ever done before, I have serious doubts its a bluff, India doesnot have money, it cannot pay for 324 aircrafts.

LCA is light then what is Su30MKIs, seems IAFs is confused, indecisive and afraid of opponents capability!

LCA isn't a navy fighter. And Rafale requirement is totally different from LCA.

What makes you think LCA failed? Again, why do you think we are ordering 324 jets?

LCA Failed because for last 30 years, not a single squadron is on operational deployment. It is a failed project which has far exceeded the Project budget and timelines. It is a failed Project cuz no one wants to buy it.

Your member friend AMCA said, 324 planes are to be ordered.

Or pls put down what are the Rafale requirements, LCA requirements, SU30mki requirements, and new EF/F18 requirements.
 
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How will HAL offer a line of credit, has it ever done before, I have serious doubts its a bluff, India doesnot have money, it cannot pay for 324 aircrafts.

HAL has never provided line of credits but it can. Its a profit making company and has enough resources to release as a line of credit(Even though it wouldn't be necessary as the order is going to be split into 10 years or more).

LCA is light then what is Su30MKIs, seems IAFs is confused, indecisive and afraid of opponents capability!

Are you serious?? LCA is in the 7 ton category whereas the SU-30 MKI is a 19 ton monster which is more than double the weight of Tejas. Each of which has a use of its own in the forces.
 
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