Boeing 777-300 ER May Replace Boeing 747-400 as Air India One

[Echo_419]

The only 4 engined planes suitable for this task are the 747-8 and A380. Of these the 747-8 makes a lot more sense and the A380 is just unrealistic for this role.

Perhaps a Upgraded 747 then

 

[Tshering22]

A380 will be epic

Too expensive. India is not some fat, oil rich country. Last of all it would be PM Modi to indilgenin such luxuries. Evening Pranab Mukerjee is a simple man.

 

[CONNAN]

Too expensive. India is not some fat, oil rich country. Last of all it would be PM Modi to indilgenin such luxuries. Evening Pranab Mukerjee is a simple man.

totally agree with you bro just one of those dream wishes

 

[illusion8]

Too expensive. India is not some fat, oil rich country. Last of all it would be PM Modi to indilgenin such luxuries. Evening Pranab Mukerjee is a simple man.

Plus not many countries have strips and facilities for a A380 to land and take off..

In regards to the IAF taking up complete op for vvip transit @Abingdonboy - wouldn't it be tedious and rather difficult for IAF to coordinate with foreign airport ground personnel and maintenance guys compared to AI which happens to have agreements with many airports and have their own or leased facilities - plus the availability of other civilian AI planes on site if something goes wrong with the original India one...for eg, IAF will need to fly in 2 aircrafts on every vvip trip as opposed to AI's operations that will in most likelihood have a spare or arrange one at short notice.

 

[Judge]

For gods sake transfer the PM's plane to the IAF.

Enough of Air India. Let them just manage to run their commercial operations decently.

 

[coolguy_ghk]

Excellent decision! Boeing is proving to be a better manufacturer of reliable planes!
For more such news - Please visit:
indiandefensenews.in/

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Same old news being reported.

-The MoD/GoI are still to decided on the twin engine vs four engine issue
-It has not been decided whether the Air India One fleet should continue to be in Air India's hands or the IAF's (a far better solution)


The IAF should follow the USAF's example and get a couple of customised 747-8s for this role.

+ @Chanakya's_Chant the title of this thread is misleading- it should be Boeing 777-300 ER MAY replace....

It's official!

New take-off: Boeing 777s to replace 747s in PM’s Air India One fleet​

PM Narendra Modi at Sri Guru Ram Dass Ji International Airport in Amritsar. Sameer Sehgal/HT​

The government has chosen the ultra long-haul Boeing 777-300 (extended range) aircraft to replace the ageing B747s that serve as Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Air India One fleet.

AI has a fleet of 12 B777s, out of which two would be transferred to the defence ministry for VVIP use, a senior AI official said. “The decision was taken at a recent meeting between defence and aviation ministry officials and attended by top AI brass,” the official said.

In a significant departure from the past and on the lines of the US President’s Air Force One fleet, the two B777s once handed over to the defence ministry won’t be used for commercial operations by AI at all. At present, the B747s are deployed for commercial operations by AI when not in use for VVIP flights.

“An in-principle decision has been taken to transfer two B777s to the VIP fleet,” an AI spokesperson told HT. The planes in the VIP fleet are used by the Prime Minister and the President.

According to discussions, the government will buy out the two planes from AI, sources said.

“The planes would need extensive modifications and done up according to VIP requirements. It would also be fitted with sophisticated communication equipment and security kits for which certification would be needed from Boeing,” the official said.

“Other modalities are being worked out in consultation with Boeing officials. The transfer (of the planes) would not take place before the second half of 2015-16,” another senior AI official said.

As part of the arrangement being worked out, the aircraft would be maintained by the defence ministry with help from AI engineers, and pilots and cabin crew might be requisitioned from AI depending on requirement, sources said.

The five B747s are around 20 years old. The B777s were inducted by AI between 2009 and 2010 and the two that would be transferred would have had the least number of landings.

“On most international routes we are operating the B787s while the B777s are used only for non-stop flights to North America. Once the B787s come in, we will have surplus capacity,” he added.

Source:- New take-off: Boeing 777s to replace 747s in PM’s Air India One fleet

 

[Tshering22]

Plus not many countries have strips and facilities for a A380 to land and take off..

In regards to the IAF taking up complete op for vvip transit @Abingdonboy - wouldn't it be tedious and rather difficult for IAF to coordinate with foreign airport ground personnel and maintenance guys compared to AI which happens to have agreements with many airports and have their own or leased facilities - plus the availability of other civilian AI planes on site if something goes wrong with the original India one...for eg, IAF will need to fly in 2 aircrafts on every vvip trip as opposed to AI's operations that will in most likelihood have a spare or arrange one at short notice.

AI works in tandem with the IAF personnel of the SPG division managing the aircraft fleet. They are painted just like any commercial jet so as to keep everyone guessing.

Air India has some of the largest maintenance and overhaul facilities of these jets in Asia. They may seem sluggish but just take a visit at their maintenance facilities. Fabulous! They have a robust infrastructure to maintain everything from engines to the tiniest nut.

IAF simply directs. AI obeys and SPG defines the whole process.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

For long haul, ‘Desi Air Force One’ on horizon

File Photo: Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his Canadian counterpart Stephen Harper onboard Air India One flight.​

NEW DELHI: PM Narendra Modi will now get a plush, highly-secure, office high in the sky. Fitted with advanced self-protection suites to jam and beat hostile incoming missiles and encrypted satellite communication facilities, the new 'Desi Air Force One' is set to be cleared soon.

Sources on Monday said the defence acquisitions council, chaired by minister Manohar Parrikar, will take up acquisition of two Boeing 777-300 (extended range) aircraft for exclusive use by President Pranab Mukherjee and Modi for extra long-haul overseas flights.
​

READ ALSO: PM Modi's Air India One develops snag, standby plane sent​

The two 777-300 (ER) aircraft will be "bought" from Air India, which has a dozen such relatively new wide-bodied planes, and then specially configured for VVIP travel and retrofitted with the sophisticated self-protection suites by Boeing.
​

They will replace the ageing Boeing 747 'Jumbo Jets' used for VVIP duties under 'Air India One' call sign after pulling them out from commercial duties as and when required. "These old aircraft do not have anti-missile defence systems, which the SPG holds is necessary. The decision was taken after a committee of secretaries from top ministries and aviation experts examined the matter," said a source.

It also gained urgency after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine last year, just around the time Modi's 747-400 aircraft was using a nearby air corridor to return to New Delhi from Frankfurt. Last month, India was also forced to dispatch a stand-by aircraft to Berlin after the 747-400 being used by Modi developed engine problems during his three-nation tour.

The two modified 777-300 (ER) aircraft will be based with the Air HQ Communication Squadron at Palam, which is tasked with ferrying the President, PM and other VVIPs in and around the country. Though Air India may still collaborate with IAF in terms of pilots, engineers and cabin crew, the call sign of the PM's new 777-300 (ER) ride could well be 'Air Force One' like the US President's iconic 'flying Oval Office'.

The 777-300s will have robust defence systems including 'radar warning receivers', which basically sound an alert if a hostile radar 'paints' the aircraft before letting loose missiles, and 'missile-approach warning systems'. Advanced electronic counter-measures on board the aircraft will be able to jam enemy radars, along with defence systems geared to shoot metal chaff or flares to throw off-track radar-guided or heat-seeking missiles.

Incidentally, the IAF Communication Squadron has three Boeing Business Jets, with similar defence systems, which were inducted for VVIP travel in 2009 under a Rs 937 crore deal. But these 'mini Air Force Ones' have a limited range of 3,000 nautical miles. The CAG had slammed the deal since the aircraft cannot fly VVIPs non-stop to international locations like London due to their limited range.
​

Source:- For long haul, ‘Desi Air Force One’ on horizon - The Times of India

 

[Abingdonboy]

The two modified 777-300 (ER) aircraft will be based with the Air HQ Communication Squadron at Palam, which is tasked with ferrying the President, PM and other VVIPs in and around the country. Though Air India may still collaborate with IAF in terms of pilots, engineers and cabin crew, the call sign of the PM's new 777-300 (ER) ride could well be 'Air Force One' like the US President's iconic 'flying Oval Office'.

Best bit of news- this a/c NEEDS to be in the possession of the IAF 24/7, the current situation vis a vis the 747 being "borrowed" by the IAF for the PM and President's travel is just stupid and pound foolish.

I will be interested to see if they go for a new paint scheme on these birds.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Best bit of news- this a/c NEEDS to be in the possession of the IAF 24/7, the current situation vis a vis the 747 being "borrowed" by the IAF for the PM and President's travel is just stupid and pound foolish.

I will be interested to see if they go for a new paint scheme on these birds.

Firstly,with the technology today a 2 engine a/c is very reliable and offers a better economy than a 4 engine a/c.

Secondly,its not practical for IAF to maintain 2 777 because it all comes down to how many hours the pilot will get in the end and with Modi i doubt the pilots will get anything more than 100 hours a year which is 1/10 what a average airline pilot gets.

Hence,they will be on checks regularly and wont have the required experience on the type.

So,its not a practical thing at all and the a/c is rightly with AI who have very well trained and experienced pilots and most suitable for the job as they regularly fly to europe and north america and have a know how of the route/procedure/approaches which the AF pilots lack.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Firstly,with the technology today a 2 engine a/c is very reliable and offers a better economy than a 4 engine a/c.

True bro.

Secondly,its not practical for IAF to maintain 2 777 because it all comes down to how many hours the pilot will get in the end and with Modi i doubt the pilots will get anything more than 100 hours a year which is 1/10 what a average airline pilot gets.

What do you mean "with Modi" they won't get many hours? He is here there and everywhere the jet setting PM


And whilst I agree that getting enough hours on the type will be a challenge I am sure the IAF will figure out a solution, probably just more simulator hours, right? The IAF's BBJs don't get too much use either and the IAF have clearly had to come up with a fix.


The USAF must face similar issues with Air Force One and must tackle it in some fashion.

Hence,they will be on checks regularly and wont have the required experience on the type.

It is clear the new deal is a break from the past, these birds will be under the sole ownership of the IAF and in their possession 24/7 (just like the BBJs) so not returned to the Air India fleet when not in PM/President use as is the current arrangement, Air India are likely to take care of all the MRO and assist in the training side but the planes will be the IAF's and this is how it should be.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

True bro.


What do you mean "with Modi" they won't get many hours? He is here there and everywhere the jet setting PM


And whilst I agree that getting enough hours on the type will be a challenge I am sure the IAF will figure out a solution, probably just more simulator hours, right? The IAF's BBJs don't get too much use either and the IAF have clearly had to come up with a fix.


The USAF must face similar issues with Air Force One and must tackle it in some fashion.


It is clear the new deal is a break from the past, these birds will be under the sole ownership of the IAF and in their possession 24/7 (just like the BBJs) so not returned to the Air India fleet when not in PM/President use as is the current arrangement, Air India are likely to take care of all the MRO and assist in the training side but the planes will be the IAF's and this is how it should be.

With Modi i mean The Indian PM doesnt fly like Obama who goes everywhere in his 747 and he travels a lot being the President of a superpower.

The maintenance will be with AI who have experienced engineers for the type since many years and i am happy that the AF will be keeping the plane.

But bro the problem is with the pilots.I have no idea how the AF functions but in airlines we have a pair of pilots and for international flights we have 2 pairs and i have no idea how many pairs of pilots will be needed for Modi.

Now the Captain needs to be experienced on the route/approach/airport before a pair is allowed to fly a particular route and should have tens of landing on the particular runway he will be landing or they are not released to fly.

And in airlines this needs to be in real aircraft and not simulator.Simulators are to show your skill and they can in no way make up for the real thing.What you are suggesting doesnt happen and can be dangerous in Europe where the weather is not very good always.

AI pilots have tons of experience flying there doing Instrument approaches and know the procedures of those countries which AF pilots lack due to lack of exposure flying there.

I would say they should go with AI pilots.

Haha..i am laughing remebering one incident where i saw a 777 bounce 6 times on the runway in New York...we dont want that to happen to Modi..do we?

 

[Abingdonboy]

With Modi i mean The Indian PM doesnt fly like Obama who goes everywhere in his 747 and he travels a lot being the President of a superpower.

It's true that for domestic travel the IAF will use the BBJs for the PM whilst the POTUS always uses the 747 for travel domestic and international however there shouldn't be a huge disparity in the amount of international travel the PM of India and POTUS engage in these days, especially Modi.

They are just one person after all and they have to be "home" as often as possible. Additionally "Air India One" will be used by the President of India when the PM doesn't require it so the fleet are going to get used pretty extensively in IAF service- of course nothing like as much as if they were in commercial use (which is a good thing naturally).

The maintenance will be with AI who have experienced engineers for the type since many years and i am happy that the AF will be keeping the plane.

But bro the problem is with the pilots.I have no idea how the AF functions but in airlines we have a pair of pilots and for international flights we have 2 pairs and i have no idea how many pairs of pilots will be needed for Modi.

No doubt the maintenance services will be handled by AI especially MRO (AI recently set up the largest MRO facility in Asia for just this) but gradually the IAF will take over the day to day maintenance duties as is natural.

But bro the problem is with the pilots.I have no idea how the AF functions but in airlines we have a pair of pilots and for international flights we have 2 pairs and i have no idea how many pairs of pilots will be needed for Modi.

Now the Captain needs to be experienced on the route/approach/airport before a pair is allowed to fly a particular route and should have tens of landing on the particular runway he will be landing or they are not released to fly.

AFAIK AI currently has an additional (third) crew for all PM/President flights on the 747 along with a secondary (backup) a/c with a similar crew size kept on standby somewhere around the world.

AI pilots have tons of experience flying there doing Instrument approaches and know the procedures of those countries which AF pilots lack due to lack of exposure flying there.

I would say they should go with AI pilots.

Of course very fair points and I am certain the IAF will work very closely with AI in the early stages, they are not going to make any compromises on flight safety but will naturally bring all these activities under their ambit in the long term. It is going to take a while for the AF crews to get up to speed and I'm sure there will be a lot of mixed crews and shadowing going on in those early days/months/years.


I would point to the fact that the IAF have successfully integrated the BBJ (and 737 before it) into their fleet and they are owned,maintained and flown exclusively by the IAF now (even the cabin crew are AF) so they have the blueprint right there within their own force. I'm not quite sure how much involvement AI had with the IAF's BBJs though as the AF has been operating the 737 for a long time now.

Anyway, these guys know what they are doing and will work something out.





Not that it is really related to anything but it's a cool pic:

+ Still really interested to know if the IAF will keep these markings (doubtful IMHO) or bring the 777s in line with the rest of their Communication Sqn fleet: