AliFarooq
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Another conspiracy theory in the making..... good going
when you already have so many, one more won't make a big diffrence.
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Another conspiracy theory in the making..... good going
when you already have so many, one more won't make a big diffrence.
You can definitely find statements by politicians and some government officials about the ISI and links with Taliban and crap of that variety. But then I can quote several instances of politicians and political commentators in other countries blaming India for genocides, occupation of illegal territory and so on. That is not important.
What is important is how different nations shape their policy with respect to your stance and your interests. India wants to use world opinion to isolate Pakistan in meaningful ways - not through mere statements. These 'meaningful' ways would be sanctions, blocking arms supplies, diplomatic boycots, curbs in economic activity, stoppage of project support from institutions like the ADB etc.
Statements are a dime a dozen, and political opinions are cheap.
Now, with this in mind, please explain to me how Pakistan has been isolated, or why you think Pakistan's stance is not "believed".
1. Pakistan still being used as the primary conduit to supply ISAF (Whatever became of those central asian routes? Hmmm.)
2. The Pakistan Army still being called upon to be, alternatively, both the hammer and the anvil to ISAF's forces. Do you have close military coordination with someone you don't "believe" or have truly deep doubts about?
3. Pakistan continues to participate in international military exercises and is constantly invited by western, middle eastern and eastern nations in this regard.
4. Pakistan continues to participate in strong and growing economic partnerships with countries as diverse as the US, China, Iran, Turkey, the EU, Malaysia etc. A lessening of these being totally out of the question, trade, JVs and participation across almost all parameters has been increasing YoY. How can this be looked upon as the world "believing" India in its usually vicious claims about Pakistan?
5. Basically, the entire world looking upon Kashmir as disputed territory. Remember, India's claim is that Kashmir is part of India. Pakistan's claim is that it is disputed territory. You would be hard pressed to find even a third the number of countries in India's camp as would agree with Pakistan's characterization of this issue.
And one can go on at length. But other than meaningless statements which are not reflected in official national policies, what can you point to that would substantiate your rather broad claim?
India, Sir, has taken every opportunity during the last 63 years to destabilize and harm Pakistan. Whether it was refusing to give us our rightful share of resources at the time of partition - particularly military resources - or the refusal to honour UN resolutions prior to any 1965, Simla Accord or other issues, or the support of insurgents and terrorists on Pakistani soil, or diplomatic campaigns against Pakistan, or the nuclearization of South Asia at Pokhran, or the completely unprovoked nuclear tests of 1998, or the assistance to Mukti Bahini during 1971 etc., the crystal clear violation of the IWT (and PLEASE don't ask me "how" - I have replied to this specifically in 3 other threads you can search TechLahore IWT and get the answer) and on and on and on.
I don't wish to debate the above issues with you because I know the gulf is way too wide. I am just telling you that your gracious statement about India meaning no harm to Pakistan when 80% of your army is at our borders, and in the context of the above history, is not going to find sympathetic ears in Pakistan. We have exactly ZERO trust in the Indian government, military and Indian policies. That is just a fact.
Hyderabad was ruled by a Muslim who wanted to maintain an independent Muslim state. What happened there? India invaded it.
Basically, the Indian argument boils down to the theory that any means of India obtaining control of a territory was legal, and everything else was illegal.
Muslims were in majority in both Bengal and Punjab (overall), yet those states were divided. Kashmir had a significant muslim majority but ruled by a Hindu, so accession was legal in that case. Hyderabad was hindu majority (though not to the extent that Kashmir was muslim majority) but muslim ruled, so therefore the decision of the Nizam to stay independent had no weight and invasion by India was legal.
Yes indeed. Everything you do is legal. And everything someone else does is illegal. And then you ask why we don't believe your pure intentions viz Pakistan.
Let's just face the facts. Kashmir was captured by India because Nehru was a Hindu Pandit from Kashmir and couldn't live with the thought of giving up his ancestral home. As simple as that. The man couldn't overcome his personal desire for the sake of peace in the sub continent. But then, overcoming personal desires was never a strong suit with him, as Edwina Mountbatten might confirm.
As to the "you will lose more than you have", I assure you, if it comes to a full fledged conflict, India will lose exactly as much as Pakistan. And the answer in both cases will be 100%.
I mean no disrespect, but the first sentence above truly made me laugh. After reading your post - entirely from an Indian perspective - you are asking us to consider "the other side's point of view".
Our options are pretty simple. I) We can either give up our legitimate demands and make a forced peace with India until the next issue (water, air, fire - whatever) comes up,
II) We can give better than we get and make sure that if there is no resolution and we aren't given what we believe is rightfully ours, then we ensure that India is made to pay a price for its unfairness also. And please. Let's not go down the "terrorism" path here. Afghanistan is one good example of Pakistan using its position to harm and destroy Indian interests without any question of "terrorism" coming up.
III) Destroy each other and ensure that not a single soul on either side survives and those that do, pray for their end
V) We can both understand that there will be no long term peace until the core issue of Kashmir is addressed, and then sit down at the table - like President Musharraf and PM Vajpayee did - and hammer out a mutually acceptable solution with both sides considering the other an equal.
There is nothing to get worked up about. We have been here for thousands of years and are not going anywhere.
P.S: Haven't really read most of the other posts since my last response here, so someone who responded to me may not get ant replies - no time to read all that and respond.
Please do, I would really like to know what other nations think about my nation. Although, please refer to those who do not have bilateral issues with India.
The last Nizam did not wanted to give up his rule, when it was clear that the world and especially India wanted to turn to the rule of democracy leaving behind monarchy. India made repeated persuasions to him before finally deciding to act. But not that India killed him or the people there, after that. And also geographically, it was not possible to have a monarchy in the center of the country while the rest was going to be a democracy. India's decision was correct and not even the people of Hyderabad will tell you otherwise.
That is totally your perception and rightly a false one, and until you drop your anti-India sentiment and then judge her, you will continue to tread the wrong path.
An unknown group calling itself the Laskhar-e-Taiba Al Alami claimed on Tuesday it was behind Saturday’s bomb attack in Pune that killed nine people.
A person who identified himself as Abu Jindal called The Hindu here, described himself as the spokesman of the LeT Al Alami (international), and claimed the group had carried out the attack because of what he said was India’s “refusal” to discuss Kashmir in the forthcoming talks with Pakistan.
The telephone number that showed up on the caller identity carried an area code common to the Waziristan tribal area and Bannu, the adjoining district in the North-West Frontier Province.
When this correspondent tried calling back the number, a recorded voice message said the number was temporarily not in use.
Kashmir jihadists do not believe in India-Pakistan talks on Kashmir and have long said their aim is to seize the State by force from India in order to “liberate” it, which makes the caller’s statement intriguing and difficult to reconcile with the standard jihadist line.
The caller also gave India’s “alliance” with America as another reason for the attack. Asked if there were any other reasons, he said: “These are the only two reasons”.
“Joh bhi America ka ittehad hoga, hum uskey khilaf jang ladengey, chahey who India ho ya Pakistan (we will wage war against any ally of America, whether it is India or Pakistan).”
He said the group had split from the Laskhar-e-Taiba because it took orders from Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence.
The caller sounded like an educated boy in his late teens or early 20s. He said he was calling from Miramshah in North Waziristan and declined to divulge the name of the group’s leader. Asked how the group had carried out the Pune attack, he said it had its “sources” in India and had activated them to carry out the attack.
Your entire response is composed of nothing other 'I say it, therefore it is' like justifications for India.
Even when it comes to invading an independent state, you use ridiculous lines of logic such as 'they had a monarchy', 'we really pleaded with them first to change their form of government'.
I am done with you - I didn't realize I was responding to an unthinking propagandist. No further responses from me.
Ex-Pak Army officers planned Pune blast
By By DC Correspondent
Feb 16 2010
Feb. 15: Saturdays blast at German Bakery in Pune was planned four to five months ago by former officers of the Pakistan Army who are now key members of banned terror outfit Lashkar-e-Tayyaba (LeT) in Karachi.
Khwaja, 27, of Malakpet in Hyderabad, said the retired Pakistani officer asked him and IM terrorists Abdul Aziz, Ameen Raza Khan and his brother Asif if they could plan attacks on the targets in Pune. Kuch kar paogey? Kaafi foreigners hain yahan, (Can you do something? There are a lot of foreigners here.) Khwaja quoted the ex-Pak Army officer as saying.
Source URL:
Ex-Pak Army officers planned Pune blast | Deccan Chronicle
Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast
NIRUPAMA SUBRAMANIAN
An unknown group calling itself the Laskhar-e-Taiba Al Alami claimed on Tuesday it was behind Saturdays bomb attack in Pune that killed nine people.
A person who identified himself as Abu Jindal called The Hindu here, described himself as the spokesman of the LeT Al Alami (international), and claimed the group had carried out the attack because of what he said was Indias refusal to discuss Kashmir in the forthcoming talks with Pakistan.
The telephone number that showed up on the caller identity carried an area code common to the Waziristan tribal area and Bannu, the adjoining district in the North-West Frontier Province.
When this correspondent tried calling back the number, a recorded voice message said the number was temporarily not in use.
Kashmir jihadists do not believe in India-Pakistan talks on Kashmir and have long said their aim is to seize the State by force from India in order to liberate it, which makes the callers statement intriguing and difficult to reconcile with the standard jihadist line.
The caller also gave Indias alliance with America as another reason for the attack. Asked if there were any other reasons, he said: These are the only two reasons.
Joh bhi America ka ittehad hoga, hum uskey khilaf jang ladengey, chahey who India ho ya Pakistan (we will wage war against any ally of America, whether it is India or Pakistan).
He said the group had split from the Laskhar-e-Taiba because it took orders from Pakistans Inter-Services Intelligence.
The caller sounded like an educated boy in his late teens or early 20s. He said he was calling from Miramshah in North Waziristan and declined to divulge the name of the groups leader. Asked how the group had carried out the Pune attack, he said it had its sources in India and had activated them to carry out the attack.
The Hindu : News / National : Unknown Pakistani group claims responsibility for Pune blast
As I see it, India opened a front in Punjab (I think) to relieve pressure from Kashmir 1947 style attack. The attempt to repeat 1947 blew up into a full scale war and the original strategic objectives of Pakistan were not met.. Really speaking everything else is not so relavant..