Blasphemy Law Possible Modifications!

[Mutee]

Mr asim just read the post where he mentions companions of prophet P.B.U.H and then realize it's what u want tonpromote on your website in the name of meaningful discussions mr muse is your think tank member so kindly realize what we are pointing towards It's serious sir

 

[Awesome]

Mr asim just read the post where he mentions companions of prophet P.B.U.H and then realize it's what u want tonpromote on your website in the name of meaningful discussions mr muse is your think tank member so kindly realize what we are pointing towards It's serious sir

He has used words. That is the theme of this entire discussion. We have to tolerate each other's POV. However if you still feel something if off, please click the report post button on the relevant post. This is not the place where you can raise such objections.

 

[Awesome]

your frustration and personal attack suggest that you have lost the war of arguments.

Prove u'r majority, shouting in forums will prove nothing!

I just said we're a minority... The problem is Mullahs are a "Laaton ka bhoot". Till you don't start killing them, they won't get it. The other bigger problem is that by definition, this minority is a peaceful, tolerant one. We can't fight intolerance by being intolerant of it.

Vicious cycle. But I'm sure if the decision was done to rid Pakistan off the Mullah scourge at some level we'll be able to justify it some way or the other.

 

[BoseDK]

All the laws and legislation in pakistan are meant to serve the ruling elite and majority. Common man will have to suffer it is his fate. And if the common man is a Hindu or christian or unfortunately a women then more worse. Blasphemy law is one of the example.

Plus Zia thought that only Islam can unite the different ethnicities in pakistan otherwise pakistan will fall apart. SO he introduced Islam as a form of nationalism. Purer Islam, more nationalist the individual and society. So the less impurer ones are wajib-ul kattal by the purer salafist/wahibi deobandis.

 

[PoKeMon]

your frustration and personal attack suggest that you have lost the war of arguments.

Prove u'r majority, shouting in forums will prove nothing!

Where did Asim declares that people of his kind are in majority???

There is no point in taking pride of being in majority. Being in majority doesn't gurantee you being right. However it gives you power to dictate terms and thats what is happening in Pak in case of unhuman blasphemy rule.
Haven't you heard a very logical statement by shakespeare "Majority is of @#$%"?

 

[BoseDK]

In my view if we go into maicro analysis, the root of the problem is 2 nation theory. Pakistan created under pretext of Islam. SO being more Islamic is like being more pakistani. Problem to all pakistans woes is that we havent been Islamic enough. SO thats why floods, earthquakes, corrupt government,Kashmir etc etc. is the popular belief in pakistan

There are equal number of muslims in India and they have the audacity to criticise your state of affairs and worsenig conditions right here on PDF. That is a slap on the two nation theorists. They are dwelling in harmony with hindus, sikhs, parsis, christains etc. (ofcourse some sad incidences do occus but its is million times better than what is happening in pakistan. 2 blasts in two days? muslims killing less pure muslims??). Indian muslims are having equal oppurtunities. The mistake of greedy feudals and Muslim league is what is causing problems

 

[Awesome]

The real minority that needs to be promoted and strengthened are the secularists of Pakistan. These people are extremely smart and have been in charge of keeping Pakistan in one piece in some form or the other. Right from Pakistan's creation.

Granted, this minority has lost a lot of battles against the Mullahs since then as well. Starting from Bhutto's capitulation in the 70s.

This is the minority that unlike the Hindus or the Christians does get to speak up (and does get itself killed now and then) because they are fundamentally Muslims. Muslims that are confident in their own beliefs and do not need to become rondhu tantrum throwers like the jhahil Mullahs.

 

[BoseDK]

Asim bhai, if secularists need to be promoted then that contradicts the two nation theory. Dont you think?

If the state does not interferes in religious beliefs of individuals and concentrates on development, education, healthcare, defence only then what is the point in being India and Pakistan?

Let us all be one like we were before partition and let the elected ones and the state manage the country without interferening or imposing religious believes on individuals .

The states having muslim majority political parties will be fielding muslim candidates. They would be elected and take care of their respective states/constituencies and their vote banks be it muslim or hindu or anything else. We have muslim CM for JK, Sikh CM for punjab, Bangali CM for Bengal, Marathi CM for maharashtra, similarly we could have pashtoon CM for kyber, dsindhi CM for sindh etc Just like you and we are having today. Whats the point in drawing the border.

 

[Ahmad]

i mean, they claim that there are millions of seculars/liberals in Pakistan. Just bring them out and silence the minority fundamentalists.

my personal observation is that the sane people are outnumbered by the religious fanatics, here the number might or might not be important,but it takes only one suicide bomber to kill many liberals in their rally. so they are human being like you and me, they have families and they want to live. But, thanks to the interent and these social networking sites that we all can express ourselves freely without the fear of being killed. I am pretty sure that the interenet and all these discussions would have a very positve effect on the way we think--- i mean all of us including the mullahs. so, try to teach the mulahs using computere and the internet, it is good for our future.

 

[Awesome]

Asim bhai, if secularists need to be promoted then that contradicts the two nation theory. Dont you think?

I've disagreed with that in the past. It's a very broad debate. Judging from what Jinnah had explicitly said about Pakistan, that is not the definition of the "Two nation theory" and raising it here is counter productive. It can be debated in its own thread, no problem.

This is a purely a Pakistani fight any help, like the one given by Hillary, would be counter productive or it would be worse off from India.

 

[Abu Basit]

I just said we're a minority... The problem is Mullahs are a "Laaton ka bhoot". Till you don't start killing them, they won't get it. The other bigger problem is that by definition, this minority is a peaceful, tolerant one. We can't fight intolerance by being intolerant of it.

Vicious cycle. But I'm sure if the decision was done to rid Pakistan off the Mullah scourge at some level we'll be able to justify it some way or the other.

not long ago i was seeing tiny secular/liberal flying high in air, i'm glad that the realization has come. Don't try to impose western/secular interpretation of ISlam on us.

 

[Abu Basit]

my personal observation is that the sane people are outnumbered by the religious fanatics, here the number might or might not be important,but it takes only one suicide bomber to kill many liberals in their rally. so they are human being like you and me, they have families and they want to live. But, thanks to the interent and these social networking sites that we all can express ourselves freely without the fear of being killed. I am pretty sure that the interenet and all these discussions would have a very positve effect on the way we think--- i mean all of us including the mullahs. so, try to teach the mulahs using computere and the internet, it is good for our future.

you are free to give u'r observation.

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

Mr asim just read the post where he mentions companions of prophet P.B.U.H and then realize it's what u want tonpromote on your website in the name of meaningful discussions mr muse is your think tank member so kindly realize what we are pointing towards It's serious sir

you are wasting your time.

 

[BoseDK]

not long ago i was seeing tiny secular/liberal flying high in air, i'm glad that the realization has come. Don't try to impose western/secular interpretation of ISlam on us.

Ok no western secular imposition on Islam. But cant you tolerate local interpretaion of Islam? Local interpretation of Islam in south Asian terms is the Ganga Jamuni Tehzeeb. The Tehzeed that led to make Bahdur shah Zafar, a muslim, as the new emperor of India by the rebels (mostly Hindus) in first war of independence 1857.{So much to your 2 nation theory now } That is being continuosly eroded and a new wahabist/salafist "Arabic" interpretaion is gainig prominense.

 

[Ahmad]

you are free to give u'r observation

and the beautiful thing here is that the bigots cant kill me.

 

[Awesome]

my personal observation is that the sane people are outnumbered by the religious fanatics, here the number might or might not be important,but it takes only one suicide bomber to kill many liberals in their rally. so they are human being like you and me, they have families and they want to live. But, thanks to the interent and these social networking sites that we all can express ourselves freely without the fear of being killed. I am pretty sure that the interenet and all these discussions would have a very positve effect on the way we think--- i mean all of us including the mullahs. so, try to teach the mulahs using computere and the internet, it is good for our future.

People watching from the outside usually don't understand Pakistan. It's easy for the Mullahs to claim the majority as their own while the majority sits comfortably in no man's land. Pakistanis are traditionalists, so its easy for them subscribe to theocracy. Some very good people are only seemingly intolerant till they are shown a better way.

Of course that works the other way too, some seemingly good people might end up violently intolerant too. But the majority title is up for grabs, right now pro-intolerance people like Basit are only claiming victory by default statuses.

I mean before tooting their own horns, lets see them win at least one election... ever?

Death of Pakistani Secularism Much Exaggerated | Informed Comment

There has been a lot of hand-wringing about religious extremism in Pakistan in the wake of the assassination of Punjab governor Salman Taseer. On Sunday the fundamentalist religious parties held a rally some 40,000 strong in the southern port city of Karachi against repealing Pakistan’s blasphemy law, as the Pakistan People’s Party MP Sherry Rahman proposes.

It would be foolish to deny that Pakistan has a problem with religious extremism. But outsiders do not actually understand the country very well and have no sense of scale, so it is hard for them to judge the significance of these events. Here I want to offer five ironies of religious extremism in that country, in an attempt to signal that the story is more complicated and requires more nuance than you find at typical American anti-Muslim hate blogs. Let me just signal the important difference between religious traditionalism and religious fundamentalism. Many Pakistanis are traditionalists– they attend at saints’ shrines, pray, sing religious songs (qawali), etc. Fundamentalists reject the idea of saints, of shrines, and of spiritual music. So on to the ironies:

1. The Pakistani parliament never passed a blasphemy law. It was promulgated in the 1980s by fiat by military dictator Gen. Zia ul-Haq. Gen. Zia made a coup in 1977 against the populist and left-leaning Pakistan People’s Party, and received the warm support of the United States, especially after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Gen. Zia was a fundamentalist who sought support in civil society for his illegitimate regime among small fundamentalist parties such as the Jama’at al-Islami. The US raised no objections.

2. The murderer of Taseer, Mumtaz Qadri, is not a fundamentalist. He had a long affair with a lover in Karachi before marrying about a year ago. He is no puritan. He sometimes trimmed back his beard, something Pakistani religious conservatives usually avoid. He sometimes went to saints’ shrines, which fundamentalists would denounce. He has no connection to any known terrorist group, and says he acted alone. He belongs to a moderate school of Islam. Many press reports have said that Taseer’s murder points to the rise of Pakistani fundamentalism, but you could not prove it by Qadri’s profile. He seems to represent no one but himself.

3. The rally of 40,000 in favor of the blasphemy law just isn’t that big in Karachi, a city of over 15 million people. The 9/11 Commission estimated that there are some 200,000 students in the religious academies or madrasahs in Karachi, so the rally did not even attract very many of them, much less a significant number of the religiously committed persons in the megalopolis.

4. The people of Karachi vote for the militantly secular if rather thuggish MQM (Muttahidah Qaumi Movement) party, which runs their municipal government and represents them in the national parliament. The MQM vehemently denounced the killing of Taseer. Fundamentalists are not important in Karachi politics, except insofar as they are violent infiltrators.

5. The MQM not only controls Karachi, it has become a swing party in parliament, the ruling Pakistan People’s Party needs the MQM secularists to stay in power. That is, the story-line of the Western press about Pakistan’s descent into fundamentalist barbarism has to be tempered with a narrative of how an unabashedly secular party is the pillar of the political establishment.

Pakistani fundamentalist parties do not typically do well in elections, and don’t appear to have that much support in a country of 170 million. The issue of the blasphemy law is a godsend to them because even Pakistani traditionalists have strong feelings about public insult to the Prophet Muhammad. It isn’t that fundamentalists are necessarily about to take over anything, but rather that the Pakistani religious Right found a momentary wedge issue. It remains to be seen whether they can parlay that issue into any significant increase of popularity at the polls when there are next parliamentary elections (now scheduled for 2013).