BJP chief claims English bad for India, triggers outrage

[Indianpatriot1]

lol, I dont think highly of your intelligence either but you might prove me wrong in your future posts. If you dont have anything else to say(other than some personal attack), I would stop disussion here.

But why should things come to such a pass that we have to learn about Hinduism from Wikipedia?? Even if you dont know Sanskrit, there are very good books on the various scriptures written by learned practicing Hindus themselves.

 

[sankranti]

But why should things come to such a pass that we have to learn about Hinduism from Wikipedia?? Even if you dont know Sanskrit, there are very good books on the various scriptures written by learned practicing Hindus themselves.

No you heard him.

He thinks its better to learn Hinduism from Christians and Muslims. ...............best to wish him luck and move on.

Is this Parth ?

 

[livingdead]

But why should things come to such a pass that we have to learn about Hinduism from Wikipedia?? Even if you dont know Sanskrit, there are very good books on the various scriptures written by learned practicing Hindus themselves.

although it looks like a rhetorical question... my guess will be... lack of interest? lack of any need to know? hinduism as in practice does not force many things on followers?

 

[Indianpatriot1]

religious discussion is frowned upon here although people engage in it. I am not really keen to do now. It is possible to discuss about bible, its origin and influence etc without talking about divinity. (how god send his child to pay for sin of mankind.. etc)

Dont reply to me if you consider this to be a religious discussion.

I agree. But thats relevant only for a scholar or a person interested in the secular side, not a practicing Christian.

Similarly, the dating of the vedas and the sequence of Devas is irrelevant and false to a Hindu because for him the Vedas are timeless divine scriptures.

No you heard him.

He things its better to learn Hinduism from Christians and Muslims. ...............best to wish him luck and move on.

Is this Parth ?

the wages of secularism. more fashionable to learn religion from Non-Hindu, secular sources.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Yes..................there is a version where Mary gets raped by Joseph and bears his child called Jesus.

No there is a theory that marry was probably pregnant from someone other that Joseph, that is according to atheists.

these is also a theory that marry had probably many other children from Joseph other than Jesus, this theory is supported by atheists as well as some Christians.

Another theory that Jesus married a wh-ore and had kids......... many of such research are by christians and are at an intellectual level and purely academic base. Many of them are by muslims.

Do you have a point ?

yes there is a theory, and I believe that is also a probability, this is what happens when there is no clear but conclusions can be reached, when one person is called with several names,different persons with same names , conflicting verses, etc comes up in holy books and ancient texts.

 

[livingdead]

I agree. But thats relevant only for a scholar or a person interested in the secular side, not a practicing Christian.

Similarly, the dating of the vedas and the sequence of Devas is irrelevant and false to a Hindu because for him the Vedas are timeless divine scriptures.

well, I should have clarified when I started discussion. lol. my bad. I thought we are talking history.

No there is a theory that marry was probably pregnant from someone other that Joseph, that is according to atheists.

these is also a theory that marry had probably many other children from Joseph other than Jesus, this theory is supported by atheists as well as some Christians.

there is another and very plausible theory that jesus is myth, never existed in first place. Another one is, he existed but as a saint (or prophet as they call such people there) but was popularized much later.

 

[Indianpatriot1]

well, I should have clarified when I started discussion. lol. my bad. I thought we are talking history.

The Vedas are eternal. So what history can there be? Hinduism, unlike Christianity, does not base itself on particular historic events - it is Sanatan Dharma.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

well, I should have clarified when I started discussion. lol. my bad. I thought we are talking history.




there is another and very plausible theory that jesus is myth, never existed in first place. Another one is, he existed but as a saint (or prophet as they call such people there) but was popularized much later.

he could be a mythical character also. but I think Jesus could be just a man who's thought were more advanced an the people of his time. the miracle stories, killing of thousands of baby's to kill Jesus(could be from Hinduism), miracles must be add on's and fairy tales.
There is one theory that Jesus came to India and studied under budha saints.. and many more, people who show "no one else should study and interpret a religious book other than a person from same religion is the decades old " bhramanikal argument that no one other than brahman should study Sanskrit or vedas "

 

[Bang Galore]

Only part I understood is that you have some desperate need to make me understand that I am 'full of it' ......was that the whole point of the debate ?

Make you understand? No...but let everyone else know it? Absolutely Can't think of many better reasons....It's not like thousands of years of religious philosophy will be decoded by us today...

Anyways...all in good fun. I try & not make this personal, it's just a forum after all... Fun to bring you down a peg when you are wallowing intoxicated by the power of your own verbosity... (courtesy Churchill). Not a bad idea after all, to follow the example set by a certain Dark Lord (not the Harry Potter type) and his promise to his aunt about the number of transgressions of her son that he would overlook.......

 

[sankranti]

No there is a theory that marry was probably pregnant from someone other that Joseph, that is according to atheists.

these is also a theory that marry had probably many other children from Joseph other than Jesus, this theory is supported by atheists as well as some Christians.

yes there is a theory, and I believe that is also a probability, this is what happens when there is no clear but conclusions can be reached, when one person is called with several names,different persons with same names , conflicting verses, etc comes up in holy books and ancient texts.

Then you have missed the whole point of having a religious text.

The whole point is to help people take right decisions in moments of crisis. Decisions that is in their best interests and in the interest of society.

In history centrist religions like Christianity and Islam, the historic narrative become important because that narrative lays the foundation for faith.

For Dharmic religions like Hinduism , Buddhism etc........history is not so important as the message it gives.

That is what Bangalore fails to understand and that is what I meant by saying 'view Hindu scriptures with christian eyes' .

When you/they try to do the same and try and interpret the Vedas as you try and interpret the bible, you are most certain to go wrong in understanding Hinduism. You have to view it with its proper context and in its wholeness.

Cherry picking will get you scoring points but you will end up missing the forest for the trees.

 

[sankranti]

Make you understand? No...but let everyone else know it? Absolutely Can't think of many better reasons....It's not like thousands of years of religious philosophy will be decoded by us today...

Anyways...all in good fun. I try & not make this personal, it's just a forum after all... Fun to bring you down a peg when you are wallowing intoxicated by the power of your own verbosity... (courtesy Churchill). Not a bad idea after all, to follow the example set by a certain Dark Lord (not the Harry Potter type) and his promise to his aunt about the number of transgressions of her son that he would overlook.......

I was not attempting to 'decode Hindu philosophy' with you help. I have other scholars to whom I refer too, when I have doubts.

You first say that you were attempting to 'bring me down a peg' and then say its not personal. You see the Irony ?

I still do not see how you have managed to do so .....but if it helps you feel better, so be it.

 

[Bang Galore]

he could be a mythical character also. but I think Jesus could be just a man who's thought were more advanced an the people of his time. the miracle stories, killing of thousands of baby's to kill Jesus(could be from Hinduism), miracles must be add on's and fairy tales.

Jesus? More fun? Maybe you should look more closely at that guy who was closely associated with Varuna...Mithra...!. If you know the story of what happened to Mithra...you will get quite a bit of your answer....

There is one theory that Jesus came to India and studied under budha saints.. and many more, people who show "no one else should study and interpret a religious book other than a person from same religion is the decades old " bhramanikal argument that no one other than brahman should study Sanskrit or vedas

That is made feasible because there is a story of Jesus -the new born (refer my above comment)...and one of him as an adult...with nothing in between............The India story is as much probable as anything else.....

 

[Bang Galore]

You first say that you were attempting to 'bring me down a peg' and then say its not personal. You see the Irony ?

All in good humour my dear chap...no malice whatsoever..... (As for you only going to other scholars & not needing my help - good for you. I'm sure I gave you some questions.... A bit of humility won't hurt, sport; there should be no bar in learning from anyone...)

 

[Dash]

The issue is not whether he can research or not. For all I care, he may write tomes on his research. The issue is why should I bother about interpretations made by a non Hindu when adifferent interpretation is given by learned Hindu sources, including the Arya Samaj.

I may write all I like on the Bible / Quran but do you think a Christian or Muslim will pay even the slightest attention to it.

There are so many schoalars among us who have made false interpretations out of Vedas...

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Then you have missed the whole point of having a religious text.

The whole point is to help people take right decisions in moments of crisis. Decisions that is in their best interests and in the interest of society.

In history centrist religions like Christianity and Islam, the historic narrative become important because that narrative lays the foundation for faith.

For Dharmic religions like Hinduism , Buddhism etc........history is not so important as the message it gives.

That is what Bangalore fails to understand and that is what I meant by saying 'view Hindu scriptures with christian eyes' .

When you/they try to do the same and try and interpret the Vedas as you try and interpret the bible, you are most certain to go wrong in understanding Hinduism. You have to view it with its proper context and in its wholeness.

Cherry picking will get you scoring points but you will end up missing the forest for the trees.

The difference is I am not interpreting anything, interpretations are given by various eminent scholars, it is up on each person to read and understand each of them and decide for himself that which interpretation is more suitable, more likely, more accepted by scholars, etc

once again belief is one thing, research and study is another thing. a believer could simply a believer as well as a researcher, a scholar could be believer or a non believer..faith is not a necessity in studying religion, in fact faith sometimes takes a scholar away from facts or logical conclusion.