Bilawal: Engaging Taliban still the ‘best path’ forward

[Meengla]

Engaging with the allies in the Taliban(not all Taliban in Afghanistan are friendly) is different with engaging with TTP. IK(and his camp within the establishment) wanted to even get TTP to start engaging in politics.

Correct.
Afghan Taliban are a geopolitical necessity for Pakistan. The Pakistan Taliban are an internal security nightmare. Big difference.
I have been pondering what Pakistan would have been like were the Soviets allowed to tame Afghanistan in the 1980s and made Afghanistan into another 'Stan'?? With more education and women's participation, the Afghanistan of today would have been very different. Sure, it might have a hostile relationship with Pakistan but the ruling class of functioning countries don't like to go to wars over dead-end issues like the Durand Line.
The original sin for Pakistan was joining the American war against the Soviets!!! Pakistan of 1979 was vastly different, peaceful than the Pakistan of 1989. How just a decade changed Pakistan's course in history.
But then how many times Imran Khan has criticized that war?? I may have seen one or two carefully worded statements from him about that 'Jihad' and that too lately as he is trying to build his false narrative. Hypocrite! It's not just the 'generals' of Pakistan. It is Pakistan's political class too since 1977, the year when ZAB was deposed. And I am willing to say if ZAB was not deposed and hanged in 1979, Pakistan would have made more prudent choices about joining the American war against the Soviet.

 

[El Sidd]

United Nations must first recognise the legitimacy of the Afghan government which would pave way for closer cooperation in making sure Afghanistan can start the healing process from a perpetual war lasting half a century.

 

[SQ8]

Best case scenario for Pakistan would be to involve the US into this.

Impress upon them how a stable Afghanistan without the Taliban, or at least the TTP attacking Pakistan is in their interest, and for that to happen, they have to broker a settlement between Pakistan and India regarding Kashmir.

Baki covert ops and all the usual BS chalti rahay, but settling Kashmir and having some cool down will allow us to divert our resources and manpower to this issue.

Sadly, there is no military solution to Afghanistan for Pakistan. We cannot kill all of them, and even if we do, they will keep coming. They don't need to occupy territory, they just need to send 5 men with a jacket and wreak havoc every other week.

For that, intelligence is needed, and a stronger border. Both need money.

Also a neglected part of the whole equation is smuggling. Customs, border officials, and sadly even FC are involved in turning a blind eye to the smuggling trade, allowing finances and personnel to leak through.

Other than ensuring some stability for its partnerships in central asian states the US has no real interest in Afghanistan other than knocking out terrorists from time to time. That can be achieved with a few resources and drones.

The focus is all on China and making sure it ends up like Russia - India is the ideal partner for it and if Pakistan is a hurdle in that policy than Pakistan must be neutered

 

[undercover JIX]

First secure the border than engage with whoever the F you want.

 

[Jango]

Other than ensuring some stability for its partnerships in central asian states the US has no real interest in Afghanistan other than knocking out terrorists from time to time. That can be achieved with a few resources and drones.

The focus is all on China and making sure it ends up like Russia - India is the ideal partner for it and if Pakistan is a hurdle in that policy than Pakistan must be neutered

In that case China could be our best bet to develop Afghanistan and get some sense of normalcy there, a bit like how it did in Africa. But I am pretty sure China wouldn't want to get into that mess.

 

[Vapnope]

Billo bada hi begharati hai,
you send your parliamentarian to meet minister of the neighbour, they refuse to meet,
Just a few weeks after meet they kill civilians on border and attack multiple check post / police stations,
and then billo says "engaging is the best path", self respect apni tashreef me daal di hai
They are not willing to entertain you, the are firing bullets and you are wagging your little tail

Which minister refused to meet? Talibs are making the same mistakes like before and even this time the result would be same for them. Cavemen can try to act tough but once 500 pounders fall from above, even caves are not safe.

In that case China could be our best bet to develop Afghanistan and get some sense of normalcy there, a bit like how it did in Africa. But I am pretty sure China wouldn't want to get into that mess.

China is already in Afghanistan but the cavemen there have no sense or direction to do anything useful. They are all about lashing women and extortion.

 

[epebble]

Allama Iqbal and Quaid e Azam foresaw this back then - had the Indian leadership then any head and settled Kashmir, Pakistan was to serve as the buffer state against the Afghan frontier from India and offer it stability against what was then the Soviet Union. A US -Canada situation except politics especially that mixed with religion was never to let it be.

Now, while Pakistani is the buffer it also has the potential to spill next to India if things collapse.

Doesn't compute. Afghanistan and Soviet Union are/were friend and ally of India. There is no 'against'

 

[epebble]

Best case scenario for Pakistan would be to involve the US into this.

Impress upon them how a stable Afghanistan without the Taliban, or at least the TTP attacking Pakistan is in their interest

US spent many years, a few thousand lives and a few trillions doing it and finally gave up because Pakistan loved Taliban more than itself.

 

[Ghessan]

Best way is to close the border indefinatly until and all hostilities cease and cross border infiltration stops.

you cannot stop smuggling which is bread and butter to the boots.

you cannot stop dollar drain when it goes to the pockets deep abroad.

 

[Goritoes]

Why can't world come together and Accidently drop few nukes of Afghanistan? Ops, sorry that was a accident.

 

[nahtanbob]

Correct.
Afghan Taliban are a geopolitical necessity for Pakistan. The Pakistan Taliban are an internal security nightmare. Big difference.
I have been pondering what Pakistan would have been like were the Soviets allowed to tame Afghanistan in the 1980s and made Afghanistan into another 'Stan'?? With more education and women's participation, the Afghanistan of today would have been very different. Sure, it might have a hostile relationship with Pakistan but the ruling class of functioning countries don't like to go to wars over dead-end issues like the Durand Line.
The original sin for Pakistan was joining the American war against the Soviets!!! Pakistan of 1979 was vastly different, peaceful than the Pakistan of 1989. How just a decade changed Pakistan's course in history.
But then how many times Imran Khan has criticized that war?? I may have seen one or two carefully worded statements from him about that 'Jihad' and that too lately as he is trying to build his false narrative. Hypocrite! It's not just the 'generals' of Pakistan. It is Pakistan's political class too since 1977, the year when ZAB was deposed. And I am willing to say if ZAB was not deposed and hanged in 1979, Pakistan would have made more prudent choices about joining the American war against the Soviet.

Why miss a chance to board the the gravy train ?

 

[Goritoes]

Radiation will reach Israel very quickly, so that's unacceptable for . . .

It won't, use low yield nukes but enough to make sure that country is finished. No more Taliban or TTP or AQ or Drug production, smuggling , or Hathyaar humara Zeewar etc, World would be a much better place.

 

[python-000]

Us & israel made this terrorist group named (ttp) for destabilized Pakistan & Afghanistan...

 

[Trango Towers]

Us & israel made this terrorist group named (ttp) for destabilized Pakistan & Afghanistan...

Indeed and they also made ISIS. The Israelis are well know for airlifting and medical treatment of ISIS. The yanks are on record for air dropping weapons and ammo to ISIS.

 

[Olympus81]

It is a complex issue. Let me try to address this.

Taliban are a net liability to Pakistan - in terms of socio economic and from security perspective (the concept of strategic depth is a thing of the past post nukes era)

Short term - Pakistan continues to engage Taliban, tell them to integrate with the outside world and start focusing on human development. In addition, convince them to assign resources to secure the Pakistan Afghan border. While Pakistan army goes after TTP in a low intensity conflict.

Medium term - if Taliban become civilized, well and good. But knowing Taliban, they would refuse to be tamed and continue with their jahil ways, which will have continuous spill over effects on Pakistan in terms of increasing extremism. Hence, Pakistan will have to tackle them. And this will need to be done for Pakistan’s long term security.