Bilawal claims credit for Regime Change

[Indos]

Create Harmony and Healthy Democracy

What I see in Indonesia is that political leaders try to create harmony and avoid toxic relation between them. I dont see them pointing finger to other party or political leader as corrupt, what they do just boasting their own party can combat corruption better than the other party.

Indonesia as I frequently said here is like that, this is why Soeharto still respect Soekarno and never put him on jail after Soekarno fall, and Soeharto is also still respected in Indonesia and never been put into jail after he resigned in 1998 (under political pressure)

Indonesia never ban Golkar party that is the government party during Soeharto rule. This Golkar party have split into 3-4 parties and all of them are strong parties (Golkar, Democrat, Gerindra, Nasional Democrat). Golkar is third largest party and Gerindra is second biggest party, while Nasional Democrat party can make Anies Baswedan eligible to run for President together with Democrat and Justice and Welfare Party (PKS). President candidate should get 20% of power in parliament in order to be eligible to run as President candidate in the election.

With healthy relationship between political parties then it can make winning party have much possibility to create strong majority coalition inside parliament in order to make effective government and political stability

Another example, Prabowo Subianto and Sandiaga Uno are both challenging Jokowi during Presidential Election 2019. In order to unite the country, Jokowi invites Prabowo and Sandiaga Uno into his Cabinet as important ministers. You cannot make something like this if the rivalry is so toxic and become so personal.

 

[Indos]

Create Harmony and Healthy Democracy

What I see in Indonesia is that political leaders try to create harmony and avoid toxic relation between them. I dont see them pointing finger to other party or political leader as corrupt, what they do just boasting their own party can combat corruption better than the other party.

Indonesia as I frequently said here is like that, this is why Soeharto still respect Soekarno and never put him on jail after Soekarno fall, and Soeharto is also still respected in Indonesia and never been put into jail after he resigned in 1998 (under political pressure)

Indonesia never ban Golkar party that is the government party during Soeharto rule. This Golkar party have split into 3-4 parties and all of them are strong parties (Golkar, Democrat, Gerindra, Nasional Democrat). Golkar is third largest party and Gerindra is second biggest party, while Nasional Democrat party can make Anies Baswedan eligible to run for President together with Democrat and Justice and Welfare Party (PKS). President candidate should get 20% of power in parliament in order to be eligible to run as President candidate in the election.

Appointed best people on the important position regardless their political view

Sri Mulyani has become Finance Minister since 2004 under Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono administration which is currently acting as opposition in parliament

Silmy Karim has been appointed since SBY administration (which is now an opposition) to make many important state owned company become healthy financially. SOE is important power in Indonesia since its assets is more than half of Indonesian GDP

Anies Baswedan doesnt belong to any party but 3 parties put him as President candidate for 2024 election

Previously we also can see on Jokowi who is not sitting in leadership position in his party PDI-P, but he is just a successful major in one of cities in Java Island

-------------------------------------------

Focus on education and put enough budget on the education.

Improve public transportation and gender equality

See the proportion of working men and women do you see inside Jakarta public transportion. It is captured at 6 PM working days and we can see people are going home from their office

That is what I can suggest.........

Moral of the stories is that : If we are divided then we will become weak, but if we are united then we will likely become strong inshaAllah. Indonesia can be gradually invaded by Dutch because we were not united in the past, with the bless of Allah we can be independent after all local political power get united. Beside due to the bless of Allah SWT (which is also acknowledged in our constitution preamble), our independence is taken through military and diplomacy struggle.

I just wonder how the Pakistani military see current political landscape in domestic politics when major civilian political power are hating each other.

Something that I want to add is that Dont be too personal in politics, long term goal should be prefered over short term political goal. We will be satisified if we can see our nation progress, regardless who is in power currently. Some Indonesian does have this divisive mind set, but AlhamduliLLAH they are not the majority among our people and all of our leaders from what I see understand this, at least until now it is still quite healty AlhamduliLLAH.

 

[Indos]

When Imran wins, he should start the first day by demolishing houses of both these two families.

Look on what this Indian suggest ?

Enemy wants you to keep divided and see politics as Zero Sum Game like what happen in Middle East countries

If one political power win, they abolish the other political power. See what happen in Egypt, Iran, Tunisia, etc

Turkey under Erdogan is also trying to play this divisive short term goal while he doesnt look long term goal of his nation

Even Erdogan play similar thing within his own party, AKP.

 

[RIP Pak LAW]

sHe convinced ?

 

[ziaulislam]

Bhutto/PPP wasn't punjabi... in fact Nawaz Sharif clan themselves are not pure punjabi.

Fact of the matter is "pindi badmash" will select whoever he chooses, and you will be forced to obey. I will not be suprised if this queer scumbag is "elected" PM soon.

Normally elite belongs to central punjab and thus they work together in sink.

The one exception was Bhutto but he was their candidate in 1970(ayub made Bhutto)

 

[FuturePAF]

Look on what this Indian suggest ?

Enemy wants you to keep divided and see politics as Zero Sum Game like what happen in Middle East countries

If one political power win, they abolish the other political power. See what happen in Egypt, Iran, Tunisia, etc

Turkey under Erdogan is also trying to play this divisive short term goal while he doesnt look long term goal of his nation

Even Erdogan play similar thing within his own party, AKP.

Even here in the US, the political landscape has become divisive. What keeps the political parties in Indonesia from doing corruption and short term brinkmanship?

 

[Indos]

Even here in the US, the political landscape has become divisive. What keeps the political parties in Indonesia from doing corruption and short term brinkmanship?

Corruption is not really eliminated in Indonesia, I believe we only can minimize it, the same also happen in other country, even developed ones.

Last time high rank political party is taken into jail is one of Golkar leaders, he is part of parliament chairmant.

I see Indonesian leaders are in majority quite wise. It can be seen as well in latest criminal law that is criticized by Western nation as the law is a compromise between Islamist and Nationalist parties. The divide between secular nationalist and Islamist nationalist parties are also blur, I mean it is not secular nationalist vs Islamist nationalist confrontation that happen in our politics, the different is more toward policy different.

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Top Lawmaker Azis Syamsuddin Becomes Graft Suspect: Reports​

BY :THE JAKARTA GLOBE
SEPTEMBER 23, 2021

Jakarta. House of Representatives Deputy Speaker Azis Syamsuddin has been named a corruption suspect for allegedly bribing an anti-graft investigator, according to local media reports on Thursday.

The news has been widely anticipated since his alleged role was mentioned publicly several times, including in the indictment against the disgraced investigator in July.

The Golkar Party politician has allegedly bribed Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) investigator Stepanus Robin Pattuju in an attempt to drop graft investigation into budget allocation for the district of Central Lampung, Lampung province, in 2017.
He is also alleged to have asked the same favor for a fellow party member.

Top Lawmaker Azis Syamsuddin Becomes Graft Suspect: Reports

Azis has allegedly bribed a KPK investigator to drop a case against him and asked a similar favor for a fellow party member.

jakartaglobe.id

 

[PeterboroughAli]

26:30-27:30

“When we removed Mr. Khan from his prime ministership, it was the first time in Pakistan’s history … for the first time, parliament voted them out, that idea, that proposition came from me. But it took me two years to convince everyone else because no one believed that it would happen.

I watched this video a few times. This interview indicates Bilawal is being pushed as a potential future prime minister and which is why the PTI really needs to strengthen its left wing, especially amongst Overseas Pakistanis.

Also, the global narrative by PTI, or at least in the US, IMHO, should use rhetoric that the current struggle is one between “Democracy vs. Autocracy” as the US claims to be championing. Also, PTI needs to state the the PDM undermined democracy by buying politicians to carry out the vote of No concordance,

I think your worrying too much

 

[FuturePAF]

Corruption is not really eliminated in Indonesia, I believe we only can minimize it, the same also happen in other country, even developed ones.

Last time high rank political party is taken into jail is one of Golkar leaders, he is part of parliament chairmant.

I see Indonesian leaders are in majority quite wise. It can be seen as well in latest criminal law that is criticized by Western nation as the law is a compromise between Islamist and Nationalist parties. The divide between secular nationalist and Islamist nationalist parties are also blur, I mean it is not secular nationalist vs Islamist nationalist confrontation that happen in our politics, the different is more toward policy different.

-------------------------------------

Top Lawmaker Azis Syamsuddin Becomes Graft Suspect: Reports​

BY :THE JAKARTA GLOBE
SEPTEMBER 23, 2021

Jakarta. House of Representatives Deputy Speaker Azis Syamsuddin has been named a corruption suspect for allegedly bribing an anti-graft investigator, according to local media reports on Thursday.

The news has been widely anticipated since his alleged role was mentioned publicly several times, including in the indictment against the disgraced investigator in July.

The Golkar Party politician has allegedly bribed Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) investigator Stepanus Robin Pattuju in an attempt to drop graft investigation into budget allocation for the district of Central Lampung, Lampung province, in 2017.
He is also alleged to have asked the same favor for a fellow party member.

Top Lawmaker Azis Syamsuddin Becomes Graft Suspect: Reports

Azis has allegedly bribed a KPK investigator to drop a case against him and asked a similar favor for a fellow party member.

jakartaglobe.id

Thanks for your answers. I gives us a nation, with a vision of how to reconcile its twin desires and an example we can ask our own politicians to look towards.

Btw, besides the ballot box, what is the punishment for failures of policy?or more accurately can bad policies be prevented from takin gf effect? In the Us We have auditing departments like the CBO; congressional budget office that estimates the cost to new policies for the public to pressure their representatives to support or reject.

 

[FuturePAF]

I think your worrying too much

IMHO, I think not enough worry his being out on Bilawal and the “junior” members of the entire political class.I don’t want the younger generation to fall into the same patterns as the older generation. Also, if you notice in the video, Bilawal claims to be the one to have made this plot to use a vote of no confidence to overthrow Khan, so don’t underestimate him. Better to expose his party’s past performance to the majority young electorate and young people around the world while Bilawal is still young.

I’m not saying he or his party should be disqualified.

Rather, the rules of Pakistani politics need to be brought more in line with a performance based democratic system that also respect our culture and values like Indonesia.

 

[Indos]

Thanks for your answers. I gives us a nation, with a vision of how to reconcile its twin desires and an example we can ask our own politicians to look towards.

Btw, besides the ballot box, what is the punishment for failures of policy?or more accurately can bad policies be prevented from takin gf effect? In the Us We have auditing departments like the CBO; congressional budget office that estimates the cost to new policies for the public to pressure their representatives to support or reject.

Basically the same like in other democracy country

1. Debate on TV /Pressure from media, analists, expert, etc
2. Of course budget needs to be approved by parliament, the same like happening in USA. This is for Budget for any fiscal year, Budget for 2024 for example needs to pass the parliament before August 2023.

SOE doesnt need approval from parliament, but if some big event happen, usually parliament will call SOE leaders for questions

Currently happening the debate between one of SOE, PT Pertamina, with parliament member, talking about oil depot in Jakarta, as we had accident on the depot recently

Indonesia largest company CEO is woman and was in parliament Today. That is live conversation, can be seen by any one using parliament Youtube channel

 

[etylo]

absolutely.... may be these wumao lizards here may have some excretions which have better aphrodisac properties.... they will source it from china too ....

cring.... yuk....

Fool, shut up your shithole mouth on Chinese, dont drag Chinese in your comments into your shithole all the time.

 

[Enigma SIG]

He is a prime PM candidate for Pakistan, he can easily fake western accent, so it will be easier for him to negotiate with IMF for future bailouts.

He has a chitti bund as well. Biden loves his chitti bund.

 

[FuturePAF]

Basically the same like in other democracy country

1. Debate on TV /Pressure from media, analists, expert, etc
2. Of course budget needs to be approved by parliament, the same like happening in USA. This is for Budget for any fiscal year, Budget for 2024 for example needs to pass the parliament before August 2023.

SOE doesnt need approval from parliament, but if some big event happen, usually parliament will call SOE leaders for questions

Currently happening the debate between one of SOE, PT Pertamina, with parliament member, talking about oil depot in Jakarta, as we had accident on the depot recently

Indonesia largest company CEO is woman and was in parliament Today. That is live conversation, can be seen by any one using parliament Youtube channel

I would hope the powers that be in Pakistan, allow elections to happen ASAP, or at least put all of them together (provincial and national) in June, like Zalmay Khalizhad wrote in a recent election.

In the mean time, I hope they invite Indonesian officials from the government and military to see if a similar democratic evolution can occur in Pakistan. IMHO, Pakistan needs an election to bring in a government with the consent of the govern, as well as move away from divisive politics (so all allegations need to be handled in court in a transparent and honest manner) as well as a restoration of faith of the people with all institutions of the state including the powers that be.

Would you say this was achieved over the last 25 years in Indonesia?

 

[Olympus81]

@Indos

There has been reconciliation in Pakistan before.

It is called NRO 1 and NRO 2. First one happened in late 2000 and the second in 2023.

It included every corrupt party including establishment exonerating each other of all wrongdoings (murder, corrupting, money laundering).

You know what happens to nations that legalize crime and encourage the spread of fitna. This is what exactly is happening to Pakistan.