Bihar, Caste Divisions & India in 21st Century

[Darmashkian]

Those who expect Bihar not to vote on caste and Biharis to suddenly magically become non-casteist, are living in suspended reality.

Biharis are casteist, very, and it also became a Bihari vs Bahari thing for them.

Both Modi ji and Amit Shah are Gujjus. And lets face it, short of Godhra, the Gujjus are not really seen as a very ballsy people. Not in Bihar definitely.

You might have as well sent Barrack Obama and George Bush to canvas there.

Even those using FB & Twitter are very casteist!! I have observed many Bihari Yadavs on twitter celebrating & abusing UCs & SCs...

I agree BJP should have projected local leaders instead of Modi & Shah..

TBH according to inputs, the development & vikas talk during the campaign didn't help at all! BUT the beef & pakistan talk ironically helped to get a few more seats.
The fact that Phase 4 &5 (where the statments weremade)>Phases 1-3 proves it.(in terms of seats)
I am currently doing a post-poll analysis of why the RJD won,will post it soon & tag you there.

Not so simple. While a lot of OBC reservations are politically driven, reservations for the likes of the SC are difficult to argue against. It is not just about financial backwardness, you can't just erase 1000's of years of social oppression & deprivation overnight.

SC,ST reservation must remain for the reason you mentioned above.

OBC reservation category seekers/beneficiaries are of 2 types:-
1)Those who deserve it i.e. the EBCs & MBCs.
2)Those who gave got it through nos. & Politics i.e. the BCs.

 

[peacekeeper]

Scholarships to the financially backward students should help.
Education is the basic right of everyone living in India, it is government's responsibility to ensure that every child gets minimum basic education. But for higher studies, government should come up with schemes to provide scholarships.
Let me remind you, it is will not be government's job to find them placement.
I'm sure we all know of atleast a few rich "backward caste" families. How prudent will it be to let such people avail the quotas?

Well, scholarship to financially backward is not an option either. Many will show pretty low income and will get the benefit. Free basic education and education system like Germany will be help. However, it will be costly but i think it will be the best option.

 

[vsdoc]

How about if the government abolishes the caste system totally and all Hindus are made to change their surnames to caste neutral generic ones ?

Like the millions of "Khan's" among the Muslims.

And the surnames could be based on linguistic, regional or ancestral birth place lines.

And slowly over a few generations, on family business or profession lines.

Of course, this would need a giant ladle to churn properly the giant pot, so that people get mixed, and don't keep score and find workaround identifiers.

And then use that as the base for social and economic programs of opportunity (education, health, housing, jobs) to provide caste neutral social enablers for a few generations.

Just a thought on mass social restructuring.

But then again, would Hinduism remain Hinduism without its caste based structure?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

How about if the government abolishes the caste system totally and all Hindus are made to change their surnames to caste neutral generic ones ?

Like the millions of "Khan's" among the Muslims.

And the surnames could be based on linguistic, regional or ancestral birth place lines.

And slowly over a few generations, on family business or profession lines.

Of course, this would need a giant ladle to churn properly the giant pot, so that people get mixed, and don't keep score and find workaround identifiers.

And then use that as the base for social and economic programs of opportunity (education, health, housing, jobs) to provide caste neutral social enablers for a few generations.

Just a thought on mass social restructuring.

But then again, would Hinduism remain Hinduism without its caste based structure?

Cheers, Doc

I am the least caste-oriented person going, but you take my name away, the name that my ancestors bore, when I am dead and lying on the ground. Don't even think about it.

How about if the government abolishes the caste system totally and all Hindus are made to change their surnames to caste neutral generic ones ?

Like the millions of "Khan's" among the Muslims.

And the surnames could be based on linguistic, regional or ancestral birth place lines.

And slowly over a few generations, on family business or profession lines.

Of course, this would need a giant ladle to churn properly the giant pot, so that people get mixed, and don't keep score and find workaround identifiers.

And then use that as the base for social and economic programs of opportunity (education, health, housing, jobs) to provide caste neutral social enablers for a few generations.

Just a thought on mass social restructuring.

But then again, would Hinduism remain Hinduism without its caste based structure?

Cheers, Doc

I know that your muscular brand of vicarious patriotism forbids reading, but you might like to read up on how the Athenians solved this problem. How the Athenian tribes were constituted.

Perhaps reading Greek history would be a useful corrective for fans of the Achaemenidae. Something like cod liver oil.

 

[vsdoc]

Personally I feel the state should be equal for everybody.

Reservation on anything but current need based lines sucks.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

you know I mentioned I'm converted into Christianity from SC... before I mentioned, I always has pleasant support from all Indian members in every argument... but later I noticed drastically change in some members.. may be you didn't.. .. in the very same thread where I mentioned am converted.... people started insulting Christianity and accusing evangelists.... you can understand why the topic changed to Christianity right after I told am converted...... they forgot not all Christians are evangelist.... I don't understand the necessity to bring evangelist there.... not just in one thread, they keep bringing Christianity and evangelists whenever I post something on topics related to Dadri or BJP or Rss dalit remarks etc.... they are talking like I don't have right to talk against BJP or attack on dalits.... they are talking like they are victims of Dalits and minorities for thousands of years... what it supposed to do with Muslim rulers in the past to present muslims.... generations are changed.... do we need to accuse them for what happened hundreds of years ago... I tried to compare fake baba's with pastors who are using Christianity for their own gains..... immediately they jumped In bring Vatican.... I don't have any stake in Vatican....for Christ sake... what Christianity supposed to do with Vatican... some people are talking my posts personal from the day one I told am converted..... .. .
am calling them bhakts(from past 2 days) for a reason


there plenty ways to discriminate others.... if you know what am talking about...

You are making up your own statements and calling yourself the victim here. Criticizing Hinduism is fine. Critiquing Christianity is fine too. And evangelists should be fair game in any rational society. Get over it.

You always had and will continue to have support. As an Indian.

But don't expect the same amount of respect when you call others bhakts etc.

 

[vsdoc]

You are making up your own statements and calling yourself the victim here. Criticizing Hinduism is fine. Critiquing Christianity is fine too. And evangelists should be fair game in any rational society. Get over it.

You always had and will continue to have support. As an Indian.

But don't expect the same amount of respect when you call others bhakts etc.

I actually thought he was Muslim from his last few posts directed at me.

It's the pigeon holing based on expected narratives at play here.

 

[Darmashkian]

I actually thought he was Muslim from his last few posts directed at me.

It's the pigeon holing based on expected narratives at play here.

He is a Telugu Christian from Andhra Pradesh. Doesn't like BJP & TDP & sympathizes with Congress & YSRCP.

I've been reading his posts & especially those related to events in the telugu states for quite some time

 

[danger007]

I actually thought he was Muslim from his last few posts directed at me.

It's the pigeon holing based on expected narratives at play here.

and Pakistani posters thought am Hindu for years...



It's the pigeon holing based on expected narratives at play here........ if you think like that it's your choice... it just like hindus being victims of minorities...

 

[vsdoc]

and Pakistani posters thought am Hindu for years...

It's the pigeon holing based on expected narratives at play here........ if you think like that it's your choice... it just like hindus being victims of minorities...

Regardless of which faith you follow, you are an Indian brother for me.

 

[danger007]

You are making up your own statements and calling yourself the victim here. Criticizing Hinduism is fine. Critiquing Christianity is fine too. And evangelists should be fair game in any rational society. Get over it.

You always had and will continue to have support. As an Indian.

But don't expect the same amount of respect when you call others bhakts etc.

I never criticised Hinduism... when I say something against particular person or particular institution some guys really trying hard to show me as anti hindu ... until last year I don't even bothered to read religious threads or articles... I started calling bhakt after months of facing lot looney toon posts against.... whatever my post is members like you started bringing evangelist to blame Christians... check how many times you guys bring those lame excuses to blame me.... just because I am converted into some religion which you hate, doesn't mean am anti Hindu... no matter what I say here..... when you always mind that am converted.... you feel am an anti hindu... isn't it you guys bring Evangelist in the very same thread, where I told am converted into Christianity.. immediately started insulting Christians that we are converting into Christianity for money... how fair is that? show me if I call anyone bhakt before Bihar elections... or you go and digg the threads.... where Indian members(some) criticising Christianity for every post of mine.....

Regardless of which faith you follow, you are an Indian brother for me.

but not everyone thinks like that.... You know I avoided to confront in many places... where few members mocking Christians... by saying we converted for money.... there should be limits for everything... be it for hindus or Christians or men or women....

 

[vsdoc]

I never criticised Hinduism... when I say something against particular person or particular institution some guys really trying hard to show me as anti hindu ... until last year I don't even bothered to read religious threads or articles... I started calling bhakt after months of facing lot looney toon posts against.... whatever my post is members like you started bringing evangelist to blame Christians... check how many times you guys bring those lame excuses to blame me.... just because I am converted into some religion which you hate, doesn't mean am anti Hindu... no matter what I say here..... when you always mind that am converted.... you feel am an anti hindu... isn't it you guys bring Evangelist in the very same thread, where I told am converted into Christianity.. immediately started insulting Christians that we are converting into Christianity for money... how fair is that? show me if I call anyone bhakt before Bihar elections... or you go and digg the threads.... where Indian members(some) criticising Christianity for every post of mine.....

It would be a good idea on online forums to deal with each individual on the basis of his or her posts, and not bracket a group under a "you guys"

I can't stand some Muslims. I get along very well with some.

Ditto for Hindus. And Christians.

Sadly or happily, for Parsis, you only get me.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sky lord]

but not everyone thinks like that.... You know I avoided to confront in many places... where few members mocking Christians... by saying we converted for money.... there should be limits for everything... be it for hindus or Christians or men or women....

It's easy to forget one's manners on an anonymous forum. It is totally unacceptable to mock in the way you describe, you need to give it back to them in spades.

 

[vsdoc]

It's easy to forget one's manners on an anonymous forum. It is totally unacceptable to mock in the way you describe, you need to give it back to them in spades.

Or disengage. And set up the revs.

 

[danger007]

It's easy to forget one's manners on an anonymous forum. It is totally unacceptable to mock in the way you describe, you need to give it back to them in spades.

Or disengage. And set up the revs.

if you have time read them...

So you meant except Hindus rest of people are not son of this soil???? everyone has equal rights like anyone... be it Hindu Christian or Muslim etc... why dragging religion for someone personal thing??? what do you mean by Hindu Rastra???? what you want to do???? do you think their mentality to be loyal on someone else will be changed after forcing them to accept Hinduism??? this shows your hatred on other religion. . yet you are blaming others.... how can you say minorities will get equal rights in Hindu Rastra??? when they don't have choice or right to practice their religious faith???? why not equal rights without Hindu rastra?? you are changing total definition of Unity in diversity. ... Our history is history now... we are not living medieval era to imply your religious practice on others... generations are passed... stop pulling silly reasons to pressure minorities. ..

This is what people who held highest post in their field say about level of "TOLERANCE", after those fake attacks on churches in Delhi. And why they said what they did? Just because GoI wants to ban NGOs funded by Evangelists? If being secular you support Soul Harvesting then why cringe on thought of Ghar Wapsi?

As a Christian, suddenly I am a stranger in my own country, writes Julio Ribeiro | The Indian Express

'Fear Among Christians Can Hit Armed Forces': Ex-Navy Chief Echoes Julio Ribeiro

ye lo bhai... am not bringing any anti articles here.... cause i have no time for the sh..... both sides can dig hundreds of articles if not thousands against each other.... you are trying to drag me as anti hindu.... because i said something against RSS...

Yes Hindus are sons of this soil no one else.
where did i drag religion? i already said i have no problem with islam. i have problem with muslims of south asia. that means i am against particular group of people because of their wrong doing in past. and i want it should not happen in future.
Hindu Rashtra means Nation for Hindus so that no other religion will have any right to demand partition on the basis of religion.
minorities will get equal rights same way as in Pakistan where minorities are getting equal rights.
minorities will be free to practice their faith in Hindu Rashtra.
there can not be unity between Hindu and muslims. so get over of this unity in diversity.
History always teaches us lessons. we should not repeat mistakes made in past. biggest mistake was we thought we can live with muslims.

so am foreigner???? lolz.... another gem post......

dont be so sure.


If you are muslim your motherland is Makka and Madina.

I never have prob to move on... but some people just mind that am converted... so whenever they see my post, instead of sticking to the topic, they are dragging Islam/ Christianity in response to my posts... that makes lot of difference... easy to blame ain't it....