Biggest deal: IAF may buy 189 jets for $20bn

[Markus]

They are still in development phase, my question was for mid term i.e 10 or so years from now.

PAk-FA and FGFA are slated to become operational by or before 2020.

 

[rockstarIN]

They are still in development phase, my question was for mid term i.e 10 or so years from now.

add 1 sqn. PAKFA/FGFA in 10 years

 

[Abingdonboy]

Well Su30 MKI production is expected to continue till 2017-18 coz the idiot babus at HAL said that they will reduce the MKI production rate after 2014 , from 28 aircraft a yr at present to 13 aircrafts a yr in 2015 ,
the reason for this is that they will divert some skilled labor to LCA production line so as to increase its production from 8 aircraft a yr in 2012 to 20 aircraft a yr in 2016-17
also , since MKI upgrade programme will begin in 2013 , some trained engineer and labor will be diverted for this project

thereafter , in 2018-20 MkI production line would be required for FGFA

This is a joke! Why is HAL/GoI/MoD cutting off its nose to spite its face? Why have the MMRCA built by HAL on a delayed schedule? Just to say- its "made in India"??!! I mean HAL could make a few SQD and still receive 100% TOT and experience. And if HAL clearly is so over-stretched that all it's deliveries for all types of AC are to be delayed, why can't the MMRCA be built simultaneously with AC manufacture? This would be ideal surely? Two birds one stone- rapid induction of MUCH NEEDED AC as two production lines are open at the same time and the original AC manufacture should be able to manufacture the AC much faster ad they have the experience and are unlikely to be as overstretched as HAL.


Why does HAL commit to everything but deliver very little- if they promise something they MUST deliver. Just because they are state owned doesn't mean they should be given preference, this is hampering Pvt players whom, because of capitalist nature and competition could deliver faster and cheaper.

 

[IND151]

i guessed that we will order more than 160 jets. i was right.

i guess 10% of 189 jets means 18 to 20 jets will be trainers which will be used for both training and combat.

 

[Jon Snow]

normally 1 in 4 are trainers - but they are nearly just as effective in combat.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I believe that every SQD (18-20 jets) has 1-2 Trainers.

 

[Jon Snow]

PAk-FA and FGFA are slated to become operational by or before 2020.

pak fa is slated to be operational by 2015 and the fgfa by 2017 - we should have all the pak fa ( 50) and at least 2-3 sqd of fgfa by 2020 - all said and done 80-90 fifth gen fighters by 2020 ( barring any delays)

 

[Jon Snow]

i think a sqd has 4-5 trainers - going by navy's order 16 mig 29s which included 4 mig 29kub trainers

 

[Ryuu]

They are still in development phase, my question was for mid term i.e 10 or so years from now.

Atleast FGFA deal is done,i can surely bet on fgfa then MMCRA/LCA before 2020.

russia are going to introduce it by 2015,fgfa prototype will have trials by 2017

 

[LiberalAtheist]

when is the questionas...we dont see amca or pakfa or even MRCA before 2017..are these sucidal planes still going to fly!!

look at your neighbours with relativly newer airframe they are desparate to replace then in next few years..

while india doesnt has any plans to replace its mig 21 last i heard is lca mark 2 isnt up in till 2014(unless you plan too fly it without an engine) while MRCA india will be lucky to start production around 2015 ..


lastly if you think amca will replace mig 27..it means by that all of your mig 27 would have been crashed with pilots dying along it ..(as amca isnt going to be ready before 2030 for induction!!)

last 10 years have shown 13 crashes..and this is going to go up not down

you think we aren't going to upgrade our MiG-27s? bro don't comment on issues you have no knowledge about

the LCAMK2 will start production in 2017 which will be the time for the MiG-21 bisons service life to end so in all we will replace those MiG-21 bisons with LCAMK2 and will upgrade the remaining LCAMk1 to MK2 the MK2 LCA's will replace the MiG-21's the MMRCA is supposed to replace the completely retired MiG-23 fleet

the MiG-27's have good airframe life left in them we just need to replace its engines so it could serve for a couple more years the point of the AMCA is to replace the Jaguar and Mirage 2000 fleet in the future, the MiG-27's along with the MiG-29's will be replaced by the FGFA and MMRCA

 

[LiberalAtheist]

the FGFA will be ready for IAF before the end of this decade, the AMCA should have its first flight late this decade and should be mass produced by 2025

 

[T90TankGuy]

it not as easy as you say to mass produce a fighter . lines have to be st up and streamlined . it takes time .
plus the MMRCA will not replace the jaguar before 2025 but supplement it .

 

[DarK-LorD]

If we get 190 of these by 2022 it will be more than enough.

 

[Dash]

This is a joke! Why is HAL/GoI/MoD cutting off its nose to spite its face? Why have the MMRCA built by HAL on a delayed schedule? Just to say- its "made in India"??!! I mean HAL could make a few SQD and still receive 100% TOT and experience. And if HAL clearly is so over-stretched that all it's deliveries for all types of AC are to be delayed, why can't the MMRCA be built simultaneously with AC manufacture? This would be ideal surely? Two birds one stone- rapid induction of MUCH NEEDED AC as two production lines are open at the same time and the original AC manufacture should be able to manufacture the AC much faster ad they have the experience and are unlikely to be as overstretched as HAL.


Why does HAL commit to everything but deliver very little- if they promise something they MUST deliver. Just because they are state owned doesn't mean they should be given preference, this is hampering Pvt players whom, because of capitalist nature and competition could deliver faster and cheaper.

As per the previous contract of 230 planes being completed by 2015 and HAL and IAF both are working on the timeline and I am sure it will be delivered, else wait for major set back on MRCA and LCA MK2, which wont be allowed by IAF and they are not. Rest problem is the addition of 42 more MKIs and 2016-17 they will be done, considering they make 15-16 a year. So by the time MRCA comes the production will be open for the new fighters.

While Nashik devision will take care of MRCA which is currently making MKIs, Bangalore can do for LCA.

 

[sancho]

i think a sqd has 4-5 trainers - going by navy's order 16 mig 29s which included 4 mig 29kub trainers

That's their procurement for the carrier, IAF squads (except of MKI) are different and AFAIK includes 18 fighters (16 single seat + 2 trainer). Btw, only Rafale offers a fully combat capable twin seat version, while the EF twin seat is mainly used for training only, so in case Rafale wins, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more twin seaters, than we would if EF wins.

@ Abingdonboy

It's not that easy, because when we say from the start we want more squads produced in the winning vendor country, they will offer less ToT, which will be included over the full production and not from day 1. The first licence produced MMRCAs will mainly be assembled in India, till we absorbed the ToT and are able to produce most of the parts in India itself. The key in MMRCA is obviously to get ToT and the licence production of critical parts like the radar as well (and that's most likely the main reason why the US fighters lost), but even that will need time till our industry is able to improve themself and produce the radars with equal quality. So the deal must be fixed for at least 108 fighters with as much ToT as possible, while the additional orders could be added later and if needed even produced by the winning country.