Bhutto, India and the 1971 Surrender in Bangladesh

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

I think what politicians and statesmen did by dividing the countries in religious colours,is weaken the various religions of the subcontinent to a great extent. And at the present,Bangladesh stands as a proof to the country dividers of either sides that such a political endevour could never last in a long term basis and only give rise to various other problems in the future! I am a human,then an Indian,then a muslim. We muslims often refer to certain other religions of the subcontinent as cowardly but what I can't understand is that why we had to run away from the land where our forefathers ruled and are buried,and house the glories of Islamic culture like the Taj Mahal,Qutub Minar,Red Fort etc. Islam is not so weak a religion that it will need states created and often ran by corrupt politicians to survive. It will rule and survive and its culture will even flourish even as a minority if its the wish of the almighty Allah!

 

[Rusty]

kya mughal ke pehle hamne imaarte khadi na ki?? n india mein jitne bhi mosquen hain, woh hindu architecture ke oopar hi bane hain. aap south indian temples ye puri jagannath ko dekhiyen, in terms of scale and size its as impressive as the Taj.
kya mughalon ke aane ke pehle indians khana nehain khate the? that you are saying mughals introduced food to india? what we have has been supplanted by destroying something local and something beautiful like the nalanda and taxila universities and with the the knowledge.
like i said the golden of india is said to be the maurya and the gupta periods and their governments. before islam was even born.
second thing is that read discovery of india.. you will see that the northern part of india was ruined much beofer advent of mughals by guys like khilji, ghori and timur. this caused mass migration of people to varous parts. this is ruin that was brought on india by the west.

I'm sorry, I don't understand that chicken scratch you wrote. Please write in English.

 

[Rusty]

I think what politicians and statesmen did by dividing the countries in religious colours,is weaken the various religions of the subcontinent to a great extent. And at the present,Bangladesh stands as a proof to the country dividers of either sides that such a political endevour could never last in a long term basis and only give rise to various other problems in the future! I am a human,then an Indian,then a muslim. We muslims often refer to certain other religions of the subcontinent as cowardly but what I can't understand is that why we had to run away from the land where our forefathers ruled and are buried,and house the glories of Islamic culture like the Taj Mahal,Qutub Minar,Red Fort etc. Islam is not so weak a religion that it will need states created and often ran by corrupt politicians to survive. It will rule and survive and its culture will even flourish even as a minority if its the wish of the almighty Allah!

Who ran away from What?
You have been drinking the Hindu coolaid my friend.
India was not a county that Pakistan left.
India was a geographic region that was ruled by Britain and when Britain left, we said we don't want to be a minority in our own country so I decided not to joint the Indian Union.
Hindus are still butt hurt over this because they have fantasies of bringing back ancient Indian civilizations (based on Hinduism/Buddhism of course).

 

[OrionHunter]

^^
Dude are you really a Pakistani?
Can't believe one would post these videos.

Why? Because you can't face the truth? Or does this go against the 'true' history written in your text books regarding the Bangla Desh liberation war and the history of Pakistan? Learn to face the truth instead of remaining in a perpetual state of denial.

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

No we muslims are not and never will be a separate nation,we are Indians and thats our first identity. And please don't generalise all muslims thinking that you are their sole representative,we can speak for ourselves,thank you! It is for such cowardly attitude of leaving the land where our forefathers ruled and are buried and even constructed some glories of Islamic culture like the Taj,Qutub Minar,Red Fort etc. that,we muslims of the subcontinent are now divided by nations and brothers from the other side can't even visit and see these places freely!

 

[notsuperstitious]

Tell me please how can a large minority will in anyway be better than a majority Muslim country, even if that country's population is less than half of that large minority?

If you cant achieve what you could have as a majority then you could have done nothing as a large minority!

In India all minorities are doing better than the majority. The only exception are Muslims who have suffered, thanks to the burden of partition with most of their educated class moving to pakistan after partition. A self fulfilling prophecy? Look at pakistan. If being a majority is important for success, you are in Canada now!!!

 

[Dillinger]

@somebozo

On topic, it was a strategic necessity for India to ensure that Pakistan lost its east wing. Given our comparatively weaker posture in the North East with regard to the armed forces we could not afford being sandwiched between two nations (PRC and <East> Pakistan) which could very much coordinate and direct hostilities towards us. We couldn't afford to have two wings of Pakistan surrounding us either, although erstwhile East Pakistan had a negligible role to play in the first two wars between us and Pakistan- given time and resources that situation could have changed. Lastly, letting East Pakistan remain to be extant would have caused a further vitiation in the insurgency in the N.E. All in all, 71 was a job well done, a complete tactical and strategic victory that consolidated our interests in the subcontinent. Dividing Pakistan into two manageable halves and de-linking the Eastern wing from disputes such as Kashmir due to geographic considerations was a highly beneficial achievement. Not to mention that despite parties like the Jamaat, Bangladesh is a manageable nation and no longer a potential security threat in any terms other than illegal migrants.

A well coordinated and executed operation by Field Marshal Sam Hormusji Framji Jamshedji Manekshaw, Lieutenant General Jagjit Singh Aurora, Lieutenant General Jacob-Farj-Rafael, and Prime Minister Indra Gandhi!

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

Hahaha! I knw that they nevr teach you in schls of Pakistan that we ruled the land,lived here and our culture flourished,BEING A MINORITY THE WHOLE TIME(surely our Mughal rulers did not export Arabs at a steady rate from outside to make muslims a majority at that certain time,then became a minority once again when the British arrivd)! And yeah the Quaid-e-Azam fulfilled his own RIGHT in gettin a "moth eaten" state(those were hs own words aftr first seein the map of Pakistan) and now it is "RULED" by corrupt politicians and fundamentalists and not by "YOU" and please we are not ruled by anyone here,even now,infact minority votebank politics have gone to such a level that Shinde,the home minister had admitted of "saffron terror" and here in Bengal our CM Mamata Banerjee(judging by her name,she may be a brahmin) dresses in muslim clothes,offers friday prayers with muslim leaders to appease minority sentiments and gain votes! Whereas,if i am nt wrong,in Pakistan,leaders AS PER TRADITION dress in western clothes,buy houses in London,lead pompus lives,doin nothin even to earn majority votes of the muslims(excpt for passing anti-India resolutions in their parliamnt,before electns) and hence the current socio-economic cnditn of Pakistan,leave alone the minority,if there is any minority left in Pakistan!
Thanks.

 

[third eye]

The larger issue is what has been learnt from 1971 ?

Once again a section with what now remains of Pakistan is being hounded & victimised for who they are not for what they do.

 

[Foo_Fighter]

I wonder, how many Pakistani's brothers on PDF wouldn't have been born if the Pakistani general decided to continue and not surrender.

 

[joekrish]

Did Pakistan learn anything from 1971?

I would say NO.

 

[InDoStAnImUsSaLmAn]

I think Bangladesh is an instance where the Bengali culture as a whole won against narrow religious fundmentalism! ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION SO WEAK THAT IT WILL NEED STATES MADE BY POLITICIANS TO SURVIVE. Sadly like the Bengalees who posses more intellect and liberal thinking abilities,developed through the early years of British rule in India,the Pakistanis who mainly constitue of the Punjabis will never learn the lesson of Bangladesh,as the Punjabi culture as a whole has failed to act as a cohesive force and narrow religious fundamentalism has won and got precedence there! Result = Failed state,safe heaven of terrorists conductin terrorist attacks all over the world in the name of religion,in which thousands of HUMAN lives,including those that of THE CHILDREN OF ISLAM are lost! :/ :'(

 

[Guynextdoor2]

@somebozo; 1971 was a tragic phase in Pakistan's history. And sadly enough, it happened inevitably. The leadership of Pakistan carries the blame for it, NOT the ordinary citizens of Pakistan.

THere are some points that need to be understood. As you have mentioned, the feeling for "blood-lust" was running high in Bangla Desh, and for understandable reasons. Which is why both Indira Gandhi and Gen. Maneckshaw (as well as the IA leadership) decided to shift all the POWS to India in a progressive manner. India also then refused to transfer PA soldiers to Bangla Desh to face War Crime Trials. For this, Indira Gandhi had to face vehement criticism from some quarters in India. But she did not relent, and the Indian Army steadfastly supported her stand.

The fact of the matter is that Indira Gandhi was a great supporter of the Democratic process in Pakistan; and to that extent she supported Bhutto whom she saw as a symbol of the democratic process. She again demonstrated that at Shimla; where she agreed to not only repatriate the POWs unconditionally but also did not drive home some points to restructure the border in Jammu and Kashmir which as a victorious power she could have or even use them (the POWs of the PA) as a quid quo pro. Please read Tariq Ali (the Pakistani journalist) about these matters. He has written exhaustively about these matters after numerous meetings with both Indira Gandhi and Z A Bhutto (to whom he had unfettered access). That is the reason why even Benazir and Rajiv had rather cordial relations later. All these actions by Indira Gandhi infact helped Bhutto to assert his primacy over GHQ. Of course, GHQ (and the PA) remained smarting over the turn of affairs (and the debacle) of 1971. Only later was Zia ul Haq able to get even with Bhutto.
But that is another chapter.

I disagree. Does it occur to you that while he in the video above,Bhutto hypocritically defends the 'inordinate delay' in the transfer of power to HIM, the very same logic did not apply when he was supposed to hand over power to Mujib? Fact is this act legitimized the creation of bangladesh, not anything that India did. And the people of west pakistan accepted this fully. they were party to this whole affair- it is an uncomfortable truth, but a fact.
If Bhutto had handed over power to Mujib and the Bengalis, if west pakistan had accepted Mujib as THEIR prime minister,the PM of all Pakistan, where was the need to go to war or ask for secession? Fact is that in crucial moments of their history, the people of west pakistan let down the people of the east.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Just look at history more minutely. The 1935 election in India and Hindu upper caste's prejudice towards Muslims created Pakistan. The way British India was, Muslim would always have been a minority in a Hindu ruled India.

Tell me please how can a large minority will in anyway be better than a majority Muslim country, even if that country's population is less than half of that large minority?

If you cant achieve what you could have as a majority then you could have done nothing as a large minority!

are you talking about congress ministries? they not only did good for their constituents but also tried to be secular. On princile they also resigned from their positions to oppose british.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

No we muslims are not and never will be a separate nation,we are Indians and thats our first identity. And please don't generalise all muslims thinking that you are their sole representative,we can speak for ourselves,thank you! It is for such cowardly attitude of leaving the land where our forefathers ruled and are buried and even constructed some glories of Islamic culture like the Taj,Qutub Minar,Red Fort etc. that,we muslims of the subcontinent are now divided by nations and brothers from the other side can't even visit and see these places freely!

bhai then stay Indian nobody is stopping you, but please don't include us & please don't whine about the partition, we made our choice & you made yours, we are not Indians we don't have & nor do we believe in Indian nationalism, we are Pakistanis & you are Indian ,both are good in their own ways, to you your country to me mine