Bhensa has been controlled.

[TankMan]

In the aftermath of these disappearances, one conservative ideologue stated that ‘liberal extremists’, such as the four in question, were actually worse than militants. The rationale underpinning this assertion was that the hurt caused by words lasts for far longer than the physical violence of actual terrorists. This is not an isolated viewpoint. It is one shared by many others populating our airwaves and writing in mainstream media outlets.

The writer fails to take into account the fact that liberal extremists (or, more accurately,pseudo-Liberals), actually support the other extreme's narrative as well, inadvertently perhaps.

Look at Bhensa's famous tweet - "Islam is a khooni religion". That is exactly what the Taliban say - they say Islam is a violent religion.

The only difference is that the Taliban say we should 'embrace' 'religious' violence while the pseudo-Liberals say we should abandon Islam entirely (or, euphemistically, 'reform' the religion).

Both of their arguments are based the same basic idea - that Islam is inherently violent. That idea is fundamentally flawed and being a Muslim, I refuse to accept it.

The actual goal of such viewpoints is to show that somehow the average Pakistani is caught between two extremes. On the one hand, you have those who wish to turn Pakistan into a theocratic state, and are willing to deploy gruesome violence to achieve those ends. On the other, you have foreign-funded liberals, who want to turn Pakistan, its law books, and all who reside within its boundaries into a godless, amoral mass.

That is, essentially, the truth. Is that not the main goal of Pakistani secularists? To emulate the West?

If you want to protect minorities, you can do that within Islam. In fact, Islam strongly encourages it. That's actually what the much-maligned 'Dhimmi' concept is about - it actually means that it is Muslims' responsibility to protect minorities living within their countries, but it is often portrayed as reducing them to 'second class citizens' or something equally misleading. (note: I am aware of IslamQA's stance regarding blasphemy laws and disagree with it, but in this case their arguments are correct and supported by the scripture)

So, why not argue from this perspective? Why not attempt to reclaim religion from the fundamentalists?

No political party in Pakistan is running on a platform of vocal secularism.

MQM. First thing on their website; "MQM is a liberal political party of Pakistan and believes in Realism and Practicalism".

To date, the number of people killed by these designated liberal extremists who run rationalist web pages and protest against religious discrimination and persecution is zero. The number of people abducted or threatened by what is pejoratively called the candlestick mafia is also zero

That depends... MQM says it's secular. Do their crimes count? And if we look at a larger context - does the Soviet Union count?

Surely if ISIS counts as an example of religious extremism, the Soviet Union must be an example of secular extremism.

I know the author is talking about contemporary Pakistani secularists, but he seems to reject the idea that secular extremism can exist, which is why I brought up the Soviets.

The belief that voicing support for religious minorities and their equal treatment is worthy of punishment is scary.

Textbook example of a strawman argument.

Nobody is saying "voicing support for religious minorities deserves punishment". What people are saying is that Bhensa etc are focused on promoting separatism and insulting Islam with the express intent to incite a violent reaction- they are not 'activists' for religious minorities.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Going to any FB page is a matter of choice. If one does not like the content, why visit it at all? Go to another FB page where the content is according to one's own views. Problem solved.

And that exactly is how Allah tells us in the Holy Quran to deal with Blasphemers; avoid them :



وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ


And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation.... [4:140]

 

[VCheng]

And that exactly is how Allah tells us in the Holy Quran to deal with Blasphemers; avoid them :



وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ


And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation.... [4:140]

Then why do these self-declared vigilantes take it upon themselves to voluntarily read such material by visiting pages they do not agree with?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Then why do these self-declared vigilantes take it upon themselves to voluntarily read such material by visiting pages they do not agree with?

Because among Muslims, The Holy Quran is the most revered, but the least understood Book ....... The most read, but the least followed one

 

[VCheng]

Because among Muslims, The Holy Quran is the most revered, but the least understood Book ....... The most read, but the least followed one

What a pitiful state of affairs. And yet they try to force upon everyone else what they themselves do not understand? Pathetic!

 

[M. Sarmad]

Haha kid take the high road . Your friends are currently in the hospitality of government institutions. They are taking good care of them

Sir, they are not my friends ... Until a few days ago, I, just like 99.99 % of other Pakistanis, didn't even know that who those people were, and what were they up to .... But now thanks to a few right-wing zealots, they are Internationally recognized free-speech activists/martyrs .....

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Good work and keep these leftist Marxist jerks in check

 

[Zibago]

Well, the ruling/political class in Pakistan always had an excuse for everything. In Punjab, same people are actually utilized for political gain and power. In Sindh, many gangs are covered and provided shelter for the same job as well as like in Karachi. Sardars in Baluchistan used to do the same thing that gangs were widely used against the opposition so the thing is, they have to support such cults as being cowards sometimes. These type of people are actually afraid of results hence expect support from them and be safe and who knows, how many political leaders are hired guns by powers abroad for a specific cause.

On topic: We can see a special set of people and group of Media is like bonkers. Those badmouths are missing and they would have many threats as well like from TTP etc due to provocation and TTP availing a chance to prove itself a Muslim defender though from both end, the purpose is to serve the master either TTP did it for sympathy among people or the gang did it to cause harm and anger in society and malign Pakistan. Picture is still unclear so soon we will hear about.

Someone tried to take the game to next level but crying now desperately and having the taste of own medicine so let it be.

Those who mock our dead shouldnt cry when state acts against them

And that exactly is how Allah tells us in the Holy Quran to deal with Blasphemers; avoid them :



وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلَا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّىٰ يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ ۚ


And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation.... [4:140]

leave blasphemy argument aside his anti national narrative alone is enough for him to be arrested and dont give me excuse of we should ignore India arrested people for not standingip during anthem

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The word "controlled" in the thread title should be changed to "abducted".

Fair speech and rule of law are rights. Sedition and promoting anti national organizations and politics does not fall under the banner of "free speech"

 

[mymeaningislion]

A nobody, who talks form his behind.

Like ACE VENTURA..........

Who is forcing you to live in Pakistan?

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

So-called peace activist on hajj stampede that resulted in so much death.
I had mentioned earlier that my best friend died in that stampede.
if he can say thisopenlyy using his real name, I wonder what kind of expressions come out of his mouth using a moniker or a pseudonym.

 

[Inception-06]

View attachment 369024
So-called peace activist on hajj stampede that resulted in so much death.
I had mentioned earlier that my best friend died in that stampede.
if he can say thisopenlyy using his real name, I wonder what kind of expressions come out of his mouth using a moniker or a pseudonym.

Thats really sad, I pray for your friend, Inshallah he will get his place in janat !

 

[Zibago]

The word "controlled" in the thread title should be changed to "abducted".

And anyone who mocks dead Pakistanis and spreads Indian propoganda in Pakistan deserves the same
You never visited bhensa page i did i know what filth he shared

 

[Kabaddi]

Bhensa ab Muslamaan ho gaya so the many PDF wana be atheist liberals

 

[VCheng]

Fair speech and rule of law are rights. Sedition and promoting anti national organizations and politics does not fall under the banner of "free speech"

Can you please quote the law that makes these abductions without any due process legal based on such accusations? If they are guilty of what you say, then let a competent authority present the evidence in court and follow procedure.

Right now, those abductors, whoever they might be, are just as much criminal as any other thug.