Betrayed, Arabized

[Abu Zolfiqar]

India became a Hindu nation and we all became Hindus...when did that happen.. or is it your general line of thought...Hindu India and such?

he was making a point, perhaps you were a bit slow to pick up on it.....

take some time to review the last part of my previous post. Maybe it would help you.

 

[bandit]

he was making a point, perhaps you were a bit slow to pick up on it.....

take some time to review the last part of my previous post. Maybe it would help you.

And you are too quick to barge in making yourself look like you know what.

He said Hindu India and all of us Hindus, how does that factually false information make a point?

 

[Tanna Tanni]

What was Pakistan's literacy rate in 1947?

What was Pakistan's level of industrialization in 1947?

What was Pakistan's educational and technological base in 1947?

What was Pakistan's infrastructure in 1947?

What was Pakistan's GDP, PCI etc. in 1947?

Yes, various other things could also explain all the improvements from 1947 till now, but one could also say the same about any dominant faith in any nation, so why single out Islam in Pakistan?

What has Hinduism done for India? See how advanced the Christian West is? You should all renounce Hinduism and convert to Christianity!

You did not get the point AM. I did not ask what pakistan has achieved from 1947 till date.

My query is what is the pakistani contributuion to islam (a supposedly foreign/alien religion)? Sufism, Ahmedism, mazar, dargah, urdu etc are all looked down by arabi custodians of faith. Most of them are outright blasphamy in religious context. Islam is compltely anti revisionist and anti accomodative to non- arabic socital/cultural/value system. Its premises is based upon the presumption that the world will remain till eternity, exactly the way it was in 600 AD. (In terms of cultural and social angle)

OTOH khuda hafiz---> Allah hafiz, Ramzan----> Ramadaan. Following is complete list of monkey-aping of arabic tidbits, while completely forbidding local substitutes

Ramazan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem? | Blog | DAWN.COM

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

And you are too quick to barge in making yourself look like you know what

and you are either unwilling or simply unable to come up with even a half-decent retort to what i said!!!

He said Hindu India and all of us Hindus, how does that factually false information make a point?

and you say ''arbi'' and ''Muslim'' and use the terms so loosely; as if to imply that all Muslims are Arabs and all Arabs are Muslim.

again, review my post and come up with a proper counter to it. Otherwise you're posts are just trolling and worthy only for the dustbin.

 

[Jango]

You did not get the point AM. My query is what is the pakistani contributuion to islam? Sufism, Ahmedism, mazar, dargah, urdu etc are all looked down by arabi custodians of faith. It is strongly anti revisionist and anti accomodative to non- arabic socital/cultural/value system.

OTOH khuda hafiz---> Allah hafiz, Ramzan----> Ramadaan. Following is complete list of monkey-aping arabic tidbits, while completely forbidding local substitutes

Ramazan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem? | Blog | DAWN.COM

What?. There was a discussion some pages back on the Allah Hafiz and Khuda Hafiz argument. Check that out please.

And Ramadan Kareem is in Arabic, in Arabic language, the zwad of urdu pronounced as dal of urdu. Hence Ramazan and Ramadan are same thing, no difference really. It is just like saying the difference between saying Javi in spanish and in english. English pronounce Javi and Javi, but the Spanish pronounce Javi as Hjavi kind of sound. So, it all comes down to language difference. Not Arabization of Islam as a world wide religion or Arabization of Pakistan.

 

[Jango]

Tanna Tani and Bandit should properly define an Arab and what they think is the meaning of Arabization of Pakistan and indeed of Islam as a world wide religion, so that we can be on the same page and counter your arguments in the exact way.

 

[muse]

That.. was one big big fact that you mentioned, muse. It requires some serious introspection that you seem to have done into all this. Very deep thinking. Now I know that this might be stinging your fellow countrymen a lot right now as I can see in the comments following yours, but you just surpassed them all.

Very nicely said.

And you will also have noted Salman's comment to the effect that since Islam came to be a religion in Arabia, that it in effect replaced the culture of Arabia with what Salman calls Islam - in effect "Islamization" means the death of culture and it's replacement by the joyless and ultimately, faithless ethic of coerced certitude.

But Culture is a difficult thing to kill, it's the proverbial tube of tooth paste, you squeeze from one end, it finds a way to express itself from the other end of the tube - and squeeze at both ends and you end up wrecking the tube.

Pakistan is experiencing pretty much what I have described to you above, as a matter of fact, all societies which have experienced "Islamization" and this includes Iran, have developed a more deeper, and richer intellectual and gut level response to the experience of Islamization and in Pakistan this is further aggravated by the association of the idea that Islamization equals Arabization - poor arbi, he doesn't know what he's in for - because when the pendulum swings the other way, will leave a lot of Pakistanis not just questioning but I am sure you have noticed, Pakistanis seem to have developed a sense of entitlement with regard to expressing themselves violently when it comes to questions of religious certitude...and that does not bode well for Al Brince.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

What?. There was a discussion some pages back on the Allah Hafiz and Khuda Hafiz argument. Check that out please.

And Ramadan Kareem is in Arabic, in Arabic language, the zwad of urdu pronounced as dal of urdu. Hence Ramazan and Ramadan are same thing, no difference really. It is just like saying the difference between saying Javi in spanish and in english. English pronounce Javi and Javi, but the Spanish pronounce Javi as Hjavi kind of sound. So, it all comes down to language difference. Not Arabization of Islam as a world wide religion or Arabization of Pakistan.

well stated.......zabardast


or rather, should i say ''jabardast''

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Here is the issue - Arabization is a cultural proposition - islam is a relgious proposition - Should Islam in Pakistan be a Arab cultural proposition?

Other have argued that yes, since Islam itself began as a Arab proposition and was rooted in the culture of Arabia, therefore, Islam not just in pakistan but everywhere, is essentially a arab cultural proposition (note the arguments about Quran in Arabic and such)

So the question arises, if indeed, we accept that islam is itself a arab cultural and religious proposition, rooted in arab, culture, then of course, Pakistan's cultural identity is mute, it's history irrelevant, because with the acceptance of Islam, the greater meaning is the acceptance of arab culture - is this not so ??

Pakistan , Islamic Republic of Pakistan I might add is a Muslim nuclear nation.

And we follow the teachings of Mohammad

Arab culture is is not in Pakistan here is how.....

a) In our weddings do you see our brides wearing white or red ?
b) In our weddings do you see a different atmosphere ? Yes we do separate feeling
c) Pakistanis do not think its cool to take their Jeep and go and have a party in desert
d) Pakistanis do not , eat a goat from one gigantic plate and we are talking a big goat roasted
e) Pakistanis do not necessarily wear same attire as its popular in arab lands some try but they can't get it right
f) You don't see Arab wearing Shalwar Qamis


So in essence , we really are not inheriting the culture that is Arabic culture

What we are getting is Faith - , religion which is same 100% and ideology in life

But I don't see any reason why we should not learn Arabic , and why can't we even dress similarly we wear jeans and shirts like Europeans lol ....whats so wrong about being Arabic influenced

We have about 1000 years + living with Indian culture so we have been influenced by Indians and that is just natural process of life but if we pick up some habits form Arabs its normal

It is completely natural for people to adapt to each other's culture 100% natural provided they are with in same acceptable level of religious tolorence

The Pakistani Culture itself is a derivative of Persian , Indian , Arab and perhaps Afghanisatan/Paktoon regions and this is 100% natural now we have given birth to a unique identity which we call as Pakistani Culture

Bruce Lee says ....

"Don't flow against the river , let the river guide to where you want to go , be water which adapts to which ever form its put in when put in glass take shape of glass, when put in lota take shape of lota ... BE WATER ... BE WATER MY FRIEND"

Just in case you need a reference from the Master

 

[r3alist]

You are right r3alist, bones should be stopped from being given . Some people just dont have a rational and logical argument.

thank you sir.

i hope you realise that its attention that they want, that its doubt and controversy that certain people want to create, its under the guise of being a maverick you see, very very cunning you see MWAHAHAHAHAHAH.

why do you think muse only picks on the weakest arguments, because it gives him oxygen.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

My query is what is the pakistani contributuion to islam (a supposedly foreign/alien religion)? Sufism, Ahmedism, mazar, dargah, urdu etc are all looked down by arabi custodians of faith. Most of them are outright blasphamy in religious context. Islam is compltely anti revisionist and anti accomodative to non- arabic socital/cultural/value system. Its premises is based upon the presumption that the world will remain till eternity, exactly the way it was in 600 AD. (In terms of cultural and social angle)

If some people feel that way, that is their choice ....

To argue that 'they are wrong' is just as bad as them arguing 'we are wrong'. If some choose to reject the Sufi/Barelvi traditions and culture, so be it - that is precisely what gives rise to differences in theology and different sects/denominations.

If everyone agreed with everything, then there would be no sectarian or denominational divide now would there?

So I fail to see what the point of your query is - people have to be free to choose what they want to believe, whether it be Sufism/Barelvism or Salfism/Wahabism.

What should be addressed and what should be the concern are regressive practices/interpretations in ANY sect or faith. Target those practices, not the entire culture/faith/sect - otherwise Indians and Pakistanis have a lot of cultural and religious perversions being practiced without any 'external influence', and these 'derogatory generalizations' being thrown at 'Arabs' would apply just as well to Hindu's, Muslims and Sikhs, Indian and Pakistani.

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------

OTOH khuda hafiz---> Allah hafiz, Ramzan----> Ramadaan. Following is complete list of monkey-aping of arabic tidbits, while completely forbidding local substitutes

And what about the 'monkey-aping' of Bollywood in Pakistan, or the West in India and Pakistan? Why is it just the Arab influences that concern some when it comes to harmless things like these 'tidbits'?

 

[Jango]

Well , nobody complains we are getting westernised by wearing jeans, sleeveless shirt, almost bare clothes and so on and so on.

 

[Awesome]

You did not get the point AM. I did not ask what pakistan has achieved from 1947 till date.

My query is what is the pakistani contributuion to islam (a supposedly foreign/alien religion)? Sufism, Ahmedism, mazar, dargah, urdu etc are all looked down by arabi custodians of faith. Most of them are outright blasphamy in religious context. Islam is compltely anti revisionist and anti accomodative to non- arabic socital/cultural/value system. Its premises is based upon the presumption that the world will remain till eternity, exactly the way it was in 600 AD. (In terms of cultural and social angle)

OTOH khuda hafiz---> Allah hafiz, Ramzan----> Ramadaan. Following is complete list of monkey-aping of arabic tidbits, while completely forbidding local substitutes

Ramazan Mubarak or Ramadan Kareem? | Blog | DAWN.COM

One must not also be Arab allergic and think everything is Arabization. A lot of Pakistanis frequent between Pakistan and the middle east. Ramadan Kareem is a highly marketed term used by all the big companies including the government. It just creeps in. It's not Arabization but generic globalization.

It's like I remember my very early interaction with Christians was exclusively with Indian Christians and the generic holiday wishes were Happy this and that. Especially Happy Christmas. A few years later Americans globalized "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year" and that was that, Christmas has always been Merry not Happy since then.

Americanization toh hum log sar jhuka ke Globalization ke naam pe Kabool karlete hain, lekin Arbion ki joon bhi reeng jaye toh khwamkha ke dramay.

Khuda Hafiz, Allah Hafiz... both are not Arabic goodbye terms. Ma salama is more common than anything else. Other Champions say Asalamalaykum even for goodbyes. Jo marzi kaho, I say tokne wala kasoor waar hai, bolne wala nahi.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Please refrain from derogatory comments against a religion, culture, nation and people. This post of yours insulted and demeaned an entire religion (Islam) and an entire people (Arabs).

This will be the only warning on these kinds of posts.

I have an infraction pending for 'derogatory language' which will result in an automatic two week ban for you, unless you can explain/edit/apologize for the comments made above.

Ahem ........

 

[Jango]

well stated.......zabardast


or rather, should i say ''jabardast''

Yeh to Indian ki ijjat hi bhag gayi!! Yeh log shamjhtay hain keh yeh Pakistan kay baray main zyada jantay hain hum shay!!