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Berlin court allows Prophet (PBUH)’s cartoons to be displayed at rally

What a pathetic excuse. There are many people who deny the holohaox and it is their right to openly express their beliefs just as anyone else would do. I can apply your pathetic excuse to other people who openly express their beliefs: "what are you going to do? Go around announcing that you are rabid homosexual sympathizer, feminists, civil rights activists, animal rights activists"??

Are you out of your mind?! Did I sound like I was giving an excuse? I was wondering as to what these guys would do if they get their freedom. I would very much like them to have the freedom to show-off their Nazi credentials. I would like them to not let the world make any mistakes in taking them for what they are.
 
And how am i a bigot? If you're going to throw accusations at me at least support it with proof. Secondly, where did i sell anyone short?



Nobody ever made that argument, at least not me, unless you are accusing me of saying something, if so prove i said such a thing otherwise this was just a rant on your part.



I stated facts, i don't sugar coat my arguments. Look at the last time when these cartoons were drawn and what happened?

Bring a better argument next time.
You've been told why the Nazi laws were enacted, ignoring the simple fact won't make it any less true.

You think that these laws were enacted to spare the feelings of Jews? You have a German in your avatar, you should know better.

For one, the Desert fox wanted to get rid of Hitler.

Secondly, those laws are in place even today not because they really do not want to offend the Jews but because they do not want anyone to praise their shame. They do not want to glorify the mass execution of 6 million Jews and others who've been murdered in the name of Germany.

Drawing of the prophet sparked violence all over the world. Over 100 people died because of a cartoon. You deny the holocaust existed but that does not make any normal person to want start a riot or bomb embassies just like it happened in 05'.
You can deny all you want, makes no difference to me or anyone whose ever read a history book or visited Poland or went to a library or a museum.
 
Then why don't you go to the German Consulate in New York and tell them to end the Anti-Nazi Laws Passed in Germany in 1947. Till then deal with it.

Here is their address: 871 United Nations Plaza, New York, NY

For the sake of argument here. Whether or not the German consulate will adhere to my words is highly unlikely.
 
And how am i a bigot? If you're going to throw accusations at me at least support it with proof. Secondly, where did i sell anyone short?

How else is anyone supposed to take your previous post? You essentially pointed out that you aren't the easily offended type but went on to detail a segment of Muslims who would take to violence for the same.


Nobody ever made that argument, at least not me, unless you are accusing me of saying something, if so prove i said such a thing otherwise this was just a rant on your part.

I made that argument. The freedoms guaranteed by any nation shouldn't be equated to the degree of offensive things citizens are allowed to pull. This particular case is a waste of the judicial process in my opinion. It should've been thrown out.

I stated facts, i don't sugar coat my arguments. Look at the last time when these cartoons were drawn and what happened?

Bring a better argument next time.

Uhuh. However, all non-Muslims can't live on the philosophy that Muslims(or a specific section) are expected to get mad every time something offensive to their perceptions appear in the mainstream. That's low-balling the expectations of who Muslims are in general.
 
You've been told why the Nazi laws were enacted, ignoring the simple fact won't make it any less true.
No excuse is good enough to deny anyone, whether it be a group of people or a single person, the right to express their beliefs as long as they are not harming anyone, which in the case of openly denying the holohoax (the biggest hoax of the century) no one is being harmed.

You think that these laws were enacted to spare the feelings of Jews?
Obviously, who else do you think? And not only that but what other reason was there (besides the first one) other than to deny the people the right to question a event which they are so ardently taught to believe and take the blame for. One has the right to question any event in history, as is the case in a true democratic and free society.

You have a German in your avatar, you should know better.

For one, the Desert fox wanted to get rid of Hitler.
No he didn't.



Secondly, those laws are in place even today not because they really do not want to offend the Jews but because they do not want anyone to praise their shame. They do not want to glorify the mass execution of 6 million Jews and others who've been murdered in the name of Germany.
And what if you don't believe six million Jews were murdered? Does that still mean you are "praising their shame"???

Regardless, in a democratic and free society no one has the right to deny anyone the right to question something or express their beliefs as long as they are not harming anyone, which in the case of deny the holohoax no harm is being done.

Drawing of the prophet sparked violence all over the world. Over 100 people died because of a cartoon. You deny the holocaust existed but that does not make any normal person to want start a riot or bomb embassies just like it happened in 05'.

Then you are misinformed. There have been attacks on holohoax deniers in the past, life threatening attacks.
 
For the sake of argument here. Whether or not the German consulate will adhere to my words is highly unlikely.

I am just giving you an avenue where you can try to change the Anti-Nazi Laws so that people can have the right in Germany to brandish Swastikas and deny the holocaust.

Till then, respect the laws in Germany or fight to change them.
 
How else is anyone supposed to take your previous post?
Then you're lacking comprehension skills. Accuse me of something then at least prove it. As the saying goes "innocent until proven guilty", or in our case "innocent until proven bigot", and you have not proven where i made a bigoted remark.

A bigot is one who is intolerant of others beliefs, which many on this thread are since they support this ruling of the court which allows the images of Islam's Holiest figure to be drawn and paraded while on the other hand denies other people from what they believe (in the case of my argument its open holohoax denial).

Either its freedom of expression/speech for all or freedom of expression/speech for none.


You essentially pointed out you aren't the easily offended type but went on to detail a segment of Muslims who would take to violence for the same.
Yeah, so? Your point? Did i not state facts?

Wow, even that israel accepted the fact that people were killed in the aftermath of the cartoon drawings.




I made that argument. The freedoms guaranteed by any nation shouldn't be equated to the degree of offensive things citizens are allowed to pull. This particular case is a waste of the judicial process in my opinion. It should've been thrown out.
Exactly, and my argument (which you failed to comprehend) is that since this has been allowed then so should denying the holohoax (which too is freedom of expression).



Uhuh. However, all non-Muslims can't live on the philosophy that Muslims(or a specific section) are expected to get mad every time something offensive to their perceptions appear in the mainstream. That's low-balling the expectations of who Muslims are in general.
Muslims already have a bad image in Europe (mostly due to their own shortcomings), this will not change anything.
 
.....
Rest of your post i agree with...

Thank you. I hope you spread the true message about Mohammad pbuh that He was known as the most truthful, trustworthy, and tolerant in his time. Unfortunately Muslims in general these days lie till their pants catch fire, no one, I mean not even their uncle trusts them with valuables, and from this thread one can easily see that majority of Muslim posting on this thread are intolerant bunch.



What if you don't believe millions of Jews died? And what if the people denying you the right to express your concern are the jerks?
..


I understand what you are saying. Here is a quick example.

Someone comes to you and says his uncle, brother, sister, or mother was brutally killed by a serial killer. This is it. He is not asking you to join a fight, or kill the serial killer. He is simply narrating the horrendous incident. That's all.

How do you respond to him? using your freedom of speech off course!

A normal person would simply say "Sorry to hear about your loss" and if you want to be even nicer, you can always add " I'll pray for him/her".

Saying Sorry to someone who lost a loved one is a simple act of humanity. You don't go into long discussion about the serial killer's good virtues, or saying no your loved hasn't died, someone is spreading wrong news and all that shebang.


Holocaust did happen, Jews were wrongfully murdered and imprisoned and robbed by the Nazis. there is no denying about that.

Some people say 1000 died, some say 10,000, some say 6 million.

Must we argue about the numbers?

Quran says, killing of one person in a wrongful manner is like killing the whole humanity.


But why would you drag this thread into Jewish thing when they have nothing to do with cartoons or Germany.

Why you are mocking holocaust with teeshirts and all?

Why? This thread has nothing to do with Jews.


Please I urge you to avoid bring bad name to Pakistan and Pakistanis. We were supposed to be clean, and truthful, and honest and tolerant.

Here you are going the opposite way and taking the reputation of the whole country with you. Aren't you the ambassador of Pakistan? Have you got no link to that country?

peace

.....



Muslims already have a bad image in Europe (mostly due to their own shortcomings), this will not change anything.


when you are in a hole, don't dig deeper.

Hope you have heard about this.
 
Then you're lacking comprehension skills. Accuse me of something then at least prove it. As the saying goes "innocent until proven guilty", or in our case "innocent until proven bigot", and you have not proven where i made a bigoted remark.

A bigot is one who is intolerant of others beliefs, which many on this thread are since they support this ruling of the court which allows the images of Islam's Holiest figure to be drawn and paraded while on the other hand denies other people from what they believe (in the case of my argument its open holohoax denial).

Either its freedom of expression/speech for all or freedom of expression/speech for none.



Yeah, so? Your point? Did i not state facts?

Wow, even that israel accepted the fact that people were killed in the aftermath of the cartoon drawings.





Exactly, and my argument (which you failed to comprehend) is that since this has been allowed then so should denying the holohoax (which too is freedom of expression).




Muslims already have a bad image in Europe (mostly due to their own shortcomings), this will not change anything.

All I am pointing towards is that the thinking that Muslims can't be expected to exhibit tolerance is a form of bigotry as well. You can take it at it's face-value. Nobody is denying the aftermath of the cartoons being published. But to never expect restraint from Muslims in the future is akin to writing them off permanently.


Although off-topic, but it might interest you of another recent court order from Germany that brought the Jews and Muslims together on the subject of circumcision. It isn't as if Muslims are being singled out as many might believe.

Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk
 
No excuse is good enough to deny anyone, whether it be a group of people or a single person, the right to express their beliefs as long as they are not harming anyone, which in the case of openly denying the holohoax (the biggest hoax of the century) no one is being harmed.


Obviously, who else do you think? And not only that but what other reason was there (besides the first one) other than to deny the people the right to question a event which they are so ardently taught to believe and take the blame for. One has the right to question any event in history, as is the case in a true democratic and free society.


No he didn't.




And what if you don't believe six million Jews were murdered? Does that still mean you are "praising their shame"???

Regardless, in a democratic and free society no one has the right to deny anyone the right to question something or express their beliefs as long as they are not harming anyone, which in the case of deny the holohoax no harm is being done.



Then you are misinformed. There have been attacks on holohoax deniers in the past, life threatening attacks.

You do not even that much about the person you admire.
Erwin Rommel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rommel, however, opposed assassinating Hitler. After the war, his widow—among others—maintained that Rommel believed an assassination attempt would spark civil war in Germany and Austria and Hitler would have become a martyr for a lasting cause.[79] Instead, Rommel insisted that Hitler be arrested and brought to trial for his crimes. By the time of his head injuries, Rommel had made up his mind to do his part to get rid of Hitler.

You call the holocaust the largest hoax of the century, do you think that angers me? No, it does not.
I do not care what people like you think about the holocaust as you should not care what people think of your Prophet.

If you are so insecure about your faith, that is your problem. Writing lies and complaining about freedom of speech won't make much of a difference unless you clear your mind of obvious decades of propaganda and start think with logic.
 
Thank you. I hope you spread the true message about Mohammad pbuh that He was known as the most truthful, trustworthy, and tolerant in his time. Unfortunately Muslims in general these days lie till their pants catch fire, no one, I mean not even their uncle trusts them with valuables, and from this thread one can easily see that majority of Muslim posting on this thread are intolerant bunch.

I agree with what you're saying, and honestly i believe that had Muslims behaved themselves in foreign lands, particularly in the west, and not indulged in crimes like harassing women, theft, riots, and robbery, maybe these people who draw images of Islam's holiest figure would have received very little or no support, or perhaps they would not have done such a thing in the first place.






I understand what you are saying. Here is a quick example.

Someone comes to you and says his uncle, brother, sister, or mother was brutally killed by a serial killer. This is it. He is not asking you to join a fight, or kill the serial killer. He is simply narrating the horrendous incident. That's all.

How do you respond to him? using your freedom of speech off course!

A normal person would simply say "Sorry to hear about your loss" and if you want to be even nicer, you can always add " I'll pray for him/her".

Saying Sorry to someone who lost a loved one is a simple act of humanity. You don't go into long discussion about the serial killer's good virtues, or saying no your loved hasn't died, someone is spreading wrong news and all that shebang.


Holocaust did happen, Jews were wrongfully murdered and imprisoned and robbed by the Nazis. there is no denying about that.

Some people say 1000 died, some say 10,000, some say 6 million.

Must we argue about the numbers?

Quran says, killing of one person in a wrongful manner is like killing the whole humanity.

Indeed, i agree that killing one person (regardless of his/her faith) is like killing whole of humanity.

However i disagree with your analogy, for one, what did Hitler and the NAZI's do to me that i have been taught in school from childhood to hate them? Why should there be a holohoax memorial in Washington DC and not a Memorial for the 60 million Russians, Ukrainians, and many more who were murdered by Bolsheviks (many of whom were Jews). Or why not a memorial for the millions starved in the Bengal famine initiated by the British Empire?

A few images and videos of charred corpses and starving people don't convince me because its not labeled on the bodies the cause of death, identity, religion, ethnicity, etc? War is a terrible thing and there are losses on every side just as their is a perspective of good and evil on every side, all crime should be condemned. Why should one particular group receive all of the attention?


What about the millions killed by the allies before and after the war?? Why aren't we taught about them?

What about Lazar Kaganavic and the 6 million+ Ukrainians he starved to death (known as the Holodomor)? Is it because he's a Jew that i never even heard of him until i did my own research? And what about the hundreds of former Soviet NKVD and Commissars who happened to be Jews and butchered millions of their own Russian people, add to that the 25,000 Polish Officers and Intellectuals brutally murdered in the Katyn forest, and many of these Commissars and NKVD officials admitted to it in israel decades later but i didn't read about any of this in school or see documentaries on it in History channel, in fact most of these mass murders were blamed on Hitler and Germany.

There have been thousands of horrendous atrocities committed by many people, including Jews, in which millions were killed, massacred, and starved, yet this one particular event is given so much emphasis, so much attention, and if one were to slightly point this out and question it one is labeled a "racist", "anti-semite", "bigot", and so many insulting words and defamed to such an extent by the media corporations (i don't need to mention who owns 96% of the worlds media, i'm sure you already know) that others would fear facing the same consequences if they are associated with you in any way. This is repression, this is bigotry in its truest form, this is tyranny, and this is what leads people to question this lie which is supported through force and coercion.

Why are they so defensive about the holohoax if someone denies it and brings up a counter argument to what we have been brainwashed with for years? One only gets extremely defensive and rude when they are trying to cover a lie.


But why would you drag this thread into Jewish thing when they have nothing to do with cartoons or Germany.

Why you are mocking holocaust with teeshirts and all?

Why? This thread has nothing to do with Jews.


Please I urge you to avoid bring bad name to Pakistan and Pakistanis. We were supposed to be clean, and truthful, and honest and tolerant.

Here you are going the opposite way and taking the reputation of the whole country with you. Aren't you the ambassador of Pakistan? Have you got no link to that country?

peace


Can't i point out the hypocrisy of the Western Angel governments that so ardently support invasions of intolerant barbaric Muslim countries based on their poor record of human rights, freedom, and equality for all?

I'm only exercising my freedom of expression, i'm only representing myself as a individual and those who share my views, not any particular country. Is it not my right to do so, so as long as i don't infringe on anyone's rights?
 
we should hold a demonstration with anti holocaust cartoons hold a pro-naxi rally complete with SS uniforms and heil hitler salutes.
 
You do not even that much about the person you admire.
Erwin Rommel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rommel, however, opposed assassinating Hitler. After the war, his widow—among others—maintained that Rommel believed an assassination attempt would spark civil war in Germany and Austria and Hitler would have become a martyr for a lasting cause.[79] Instead, Rommel insisted that Hitler be arrested and brought to trial for his crimes. By the time of his head injuries, Rommel had made up his mind to do his part to get rid of Hitler.

This link was posted by your very own Solomon2:
The real Rommel: Enduring myth of the decent Nazi is debunked | Mail Online

You call the holocaust the largest hoax of the century
I call it what it is.

, do you think that angers me? No, it does not.
And neither do i care if it does or not, i'm only spreading awareness.

I do not care what people like you think about the holocaust as you should not care what people think of your Prophet.
And i don't because a few ignorant people drawing images of Muhammad (pbuh) won't change my faith.

If you are so insecure about your faith, that is your problem. Writing lies and complaining about freedom of speech won't make much of a difference unless you clear your mind of obvious decades of propaganda and start think with logic.

There's your insecurity highlighted. Why did you bother to label my beliefs as "lies" or " decades of propaganda" (even though i have been taught the holohoax was an actual event since elementary school) if you don't care and are not insecure? And you're saying i'm insecure?
 
1-
Al-Nasaa’i narrated (4071) that Abu Barzah al-Aslami said: A man spoke harshly to Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq and I said, ‘Shall I kill him?’ He rebuked me and said, ‘That is not for anyone after the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) .’”

(Saheeh al-Nasaa’i, 3795)

2-
In the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (2683) narrated that Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqaas said: “On the Day of the Conquest of Makkah, the Messenger of ALLAH (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him) granted safety to the people except for four men and two women, and he named them, and Ibn Abi Sarh… As for Ibn Abi Sarh, he hid with ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan, and when the Messenger of ALLAH (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him) called the people to give their allegiance to him, he brought him to stand before the Messenger of ALLAH (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him). He said, “O Prophet of ALLAH, accept the allegiance of ‘Abd-Allah.” He raised his head and looked at him three times, refusing him, then he accepted his allegiance after the third time. Then he turned to his companions and said: “Was there not among you any smart man who could have got up and killed this person when he saw me refusing to give him my hand and accept his allegiance?” They said, “We do not know what is in your heart, O Messenger of ALLAH. Why did you not gesture to us with your eyes?” He said, “It is not befitting for a Prophet to betray a person with a gesture of his eyes.”

(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 2334)

3-
Abu Dawood (4361) narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas that a blind man had a freed concubine (umm walad) who used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him) and say bad things about him. He told her not to do that but she did not stop, and he rebuked her but she did not heed him. One night, when she started to say bad things about the Prophet (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him) and insult him, he took a short sword or dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it and killed her. The following morning that was mentioned to the Messenger of ALLAH (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He called the people together and said, “I adjure by ALLAH the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right over him that he should stand up.” The blind man stood up and said, “O Messenger of ALLAH, I am the one who did it; she used to insult you and say bad things about you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not give up her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was kind to me. Last night she began to insult you and say bad things about you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.” Thereupon the Prophet (peace and blessings of ALLAH be upon him) said: “Bear witness, there is no blood money due for her.”

(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 3655)
 

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