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Beijing's stand on Masood Azhar doing material harm to China-India ties: Experts

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Beijing's stand on Masood Azhar doing material harm to China-India ties: Experts
China's repeated move to block efforts at the UN to list Pakistan-based JeM chief Masood Azhar as a global terrorist "grievously undermines" its narrative about the need to take a tougher line on terrorism and is harming its ties with India, top US experts said today.

Last week, China for the fourth time had blocked a bid at the UN by the US, France, and Britain to list Azhar as a global terrorist, citing a lack of consensus among the members of the Al-Qaeda Sanctions Committee of the UN Security Council.

"I think it's an unfortunate move on China's part and I question the logic of continuing to block sanctions on known Pakistan-based terrorists at the United Nations," Jeff Smith, a research fellow at the Heritage Foundation told PTI.

Smith said that China was "clearly" seeing its action as a favour to its all-weather friend, Pakistan.

"But the policy is increasingly undermining China's own strategic interests and stated foreign policy objectives," he said, noting that in September, China had, for the first time, relented to including specific criticism of the Jaish-e- Mohammed (JeM) and other Pakistani terror outfits in the statement issued at the BRICS summit in Xiamen.

During their summit in China this year, Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa named Pakistan-based terror groups like the LeT and the JeM were for causing violence in the region.

They also asserted that those responsible for committing, organising or supporting terror acts must be held accountable.

"It grievously undermines an increasingly prominent Chinese narrative about the need to take a tougher line on terrorism broadly, and in Afghanistan specifically," Smith said.

"It's actions are also doing material harm to the health of a China-India relationship already under duress," he said.

The Permanent Mission of the United States to the United Nations said that the Committee discussions over whether to add an individual or entity to the 1267 sanctions list are confidential to the committee.

"However, we would support efforts to list Azhar, Jaish-e Mohammed's founder and leader, on the 1267 Sanctions List and would encourage others to support his listing as well," a spokesperson for the US mission in New York said.

According to Rick Rossow from Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), an American think-tank, China's latest move affirmed Delhi's belief in Sino-Pakistani collusion.

"By supporting this decision, China could have taken an important step to restart its ties with Delhi, yet Beijing chose a different path," Rossow said.

Rossow alleged that China continued to use the international system where it saw fit, "such as this vote", while undermining the international system in other areas, "such as maritime law".

"The timing is significant, coming on the heels of Washington's stronger rhetoric against Pakistan's support for terrorism. Much like the announcement of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, this decision was another Chinese lifeline to Islamabad at a precarious time," Rossow said.

Director of Initiative on the Future of India and South Asia at Hudson Institute think tank, Aparna Pande, said she was not surprised by Beijing's decision.

"While China worries about Islamist radicals it is concerned primarily with Uyghurs and on that front it will apply pressure on Pakistan," she noted.

"When it comes to Jihadits that target India, China does not see it as in its interest to force Pakistan. Further, being seen as Pakistan's benefactor in the international arena is another benefit for Beijing," Pande said. The JeM, founded by Azhar, has already been in the UN's list of banned terror outfits.

Last March, China was the only member in the 15-nation UN Security Council to put a hold on India's application.

The other 14 members supported New Delhi's bid to place Azhar on the sanctions list that would subject him to an assets freeze and travel ban.

Azhar is accused of several terrorist attacks in India, including one on the Pathankot air force station in January 2016.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ies-experts/articleshow/61541401.cms?from=mdr
 
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China's repeated move to block efforts at the UN to list Pakistan-based JeM chief Masood Azhar as a global terrorist "grievously undermines" its narrative about the need to take a tougher line on terrorism and is harming its ties with India, top US experts said today.
Washington's consistent vetoing of UN Resolutions to make Israel accountable for it's actions in Gaza are "devastating" US position as global leader said top Russian expert.
 
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Washington's consistent vetoing of UN Resolutions to make Israel accountable for it's actions in Gaza are "devastating" US position as global leader said top Russian expert.
Truth is other than Iran no country cares much about Gaza. Iran already has poor relations with US. Protests by bahawalpur madarsa students doesn't count much in world affairs.
Masood Azhar is a different story. He is a clear case of 'extremist Islamist terrorism'. It only favors India if China and Pakistan keep blocking this resolution. He is an identifiable face and helps in highlighting Pakistan sponsored terrorism.
 
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Last week, China for the fourth time had blocked a bid at the UN by the US, France, and Britain to list Azhar as a global terrorist, citing a lack of consensus among the members of the Al-Qaeda Sanctions Committee of the UN Security Council.



The other 14 members supported New Delhi's bid to place Azhar on the sanctions list that would subject him to an assets freeze and travel ban.


https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ies-experts/articleshow/61541401.cms?from=mdr

This is confusing.
So China claims there is a lack of consensus on the banning of Masood Azhar, but 14 out of 15 members barring China supported the ban.
So where the **** is the consensus or lack therof? lol

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Can someone provide perspective here?
 
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This is confusing.
So China claims there is a lack of consensus on the banning of Masood Azhar, but 14 out of 15 members barring China supported the ban.
So where the **** is the consensus or lack therof? lol

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Can someone provide perspective here?

It is a closed session, nobody knows who voted for what. Even the Indian government's official statement refused to name China.

This "14 out of 15" joke came from the Indian media, same as the joke that all members of the NSG voted for India. And we saw how that lie caught up with them. :lol:

P.S. To reach consensus, all veto welding members must agree.
 
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This is confusing.
So China claims there is a lack of consensus on the banning of Masood Azhar, but 14 out of 15 members barring China supported the ban.
So where the **** is the consensus or lack therof? lol

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Can someone provide perspective here?
Chinese are waiting for Pakistan army approval on this otherwise Chinese will be like headless chickens running on cpec and their investment going down the drain . Pakistani army itself seems confused about how to deal with Masood Azhars fighting for azadi.
 
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He is an identifiable face and helps in highlighting Pakistan sponsored terrorism.
As the case of USA demonstrates you invade countries like Iraq on dubvious if not outright lies and it does not count jack. USA can block vetoes against Israel in regards to West Bank it does not count jack. I could list other terrible injustices meted out by USA but that has never dented by the slightest US shine and power in the world. After everything is said and done only two very related things matter - economic power and military might. You have these and you can do you what you want.

colin-powell-un.jpg



And China is fast heading for being the hyperpower. We will witness "might is right" Chinese style. We already have had 50 years of US "might is right". At least this time Pakistan like Israel did will have "buddy in high places" Now you can paste this Mullah whatever his name is on every taxi cab from New York to Tokyo but it won't count for jack as long as China blocks it. And you really think out there in the real world people are going to make decisions based on what China did with regards to Mullah Azhar? Like hell they are.

The only people who will cry on about this is Indians. But you don't need Mullah Azhar and China's adoption of realpolitik to look down on China. You already do.
 
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As the case of USA demonstrates you invade countries like Iraq on dubvious if not outright lies and it does not count jack. USA can block vetoes against Israel in regards to West Bank it does not count jack. I could list other terrible injustices meted out by USA but that has never dented by the slightest US shine and power in the world. After everything is said and done only two very related things matter - economic power and military might. You have these and you can do you what you want.

colin-powell-un.jpg



And China is fast heading for being the hyperpower. WE will witness "might is right" Chinese style. We already have had 50 years of US "might is right". At least this time Pakistan like Israel did will have "buddy in high places" Now you can paste this Mullah whatever his name is on every taxi cab from New York to Tokyo but it won't count for jack as long as China blocks it. And you really thing out there in the real world people are going to male decisions based on what China did with regards to Mullah Azhar? Like hell they are.

The only people who will cry on about this is Indians. But you don't need Mullah Azhar and China's adoption of realpolitik to look down on China. You already do.
Right
As the case of USA demonstrates you invade countries like Iraq on dubvious if not outright lies and it does not count jack. USA can block vetoes against Israel in regards to West Bank it does not count jack. I could list other terrible injustices meted out by USA but that has never dented by the slightest US shine and power in the world. After everything is said and done only two very related things matter - economic power and military might. You have these and you can do you what you want.

colin-powell-un.jpg



And China is fast heading for being the hyperpower. WE will witness "might is right" Chinese style. We already have had 50 years of US "might is right". At least this time Pakistan like Israel did will have "buddy in high places" Now you can paste this Mullah whatever his name is on every taxi cab from New York to Tokyo but it won't count for jack as long as China blocks it. And you really thing out there in the real world people are going to male decisions based on what China did with regards to Mullah Azhar? Like hell they are.

The only people who will cry on about this is Indians. But you don't need Mullah Azhar and China's adoption of realpolitik to look down on China. You already do.
Right but there is a difference. Almost nobody cares about Gaza but lot many fear extremist islamism. This guy Masood symbolizes it by waging jihad and spewing venom across world. India can always nicely ask UK that this guy killed few European, involved in many terrorist attacks, plane hijack, jihad preaching in UK, Germany, usa etc...we want to ban his organization and seek Pakistans support in his capture and trial. This guy alive is much more useful for us. He is a terrorist. If China allows this resolution then our next step would be to ask Pakistanis for his handover. Pak army might be full of good fighters and music record producers but diplomacy is not their forte
 
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@AshishDelhi You what always surprises me about South Asians? South Asian culture and practice is perfect exhibition of "might is right". Go to any city, town, village in South Asia and this fact slaps you in the face. Justice, fairness and what is right are commodities that can be purchased with Rupees or with social position. Most poor Dalits in India or poor Christians in Pakistan have rights and access to justice like the rats a*ss. Those with power in South Asia regularly display that they are above the law. Any poor person in South Asia knows there is pecking order and the survival instince means most then abide by those conventions.

Yet in the international order South Asians expect somehow that countries will all behave and exhibit fairness or be guided by moralty. If you can dispense moralty inside your own country how the frigg do people expect you can get it in the international setting? Only the size of the barrel of the gun and size of money bag counts.

Right but there is a difference.
The issue here is not about good/bad. If it was Blair, Bush, Colin Powel would be in prison for causing mass genocide in Iraq - arguable this bunch caused far more deaths then Mullah Azhar can ever even in dreams cause. What it all boils down to is international geopolitical expediancy. China will cover Pakistan's flank insofar as it's intersts go. If at any point the costs of supporting Pakistan on MUllah Azhar exceed it's geostrategic interests in Pakistan even by one Yuan China will dump Mullah Azhar and in private tell Pakistan in no certain terms "dump him now".

And trust me Pakistan will oblige.
 
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It is a closed session, nobody knows who voted for what. Even the Indian government's official statement refused to name China.

This "14 out of 15" joke came from the Indian media, same as the joke that all members of the NSG voted for India. And we saw how that lie caught up with them. :lol:

P.S. To reach consensus, all veto welding members must agree.

Hold on, so you're telling me that the vote count itself is wrong?
Are you claiming 14 out of 15 did not vote to ban Azhar? Are you saying that the technical hold on the Azhar issue was not placed by China?
Don't think the above is so secret. A technical ban has to be raised by a specific country. And it is known which country excercises its veto. How else would we know that US has used its veto to protect Israel on various occasions.

@Joe Shearer can you please chime in on the matter?
@hellfire your input would be appreciated as well.
 
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Hold on, so you're telling me that the vote count itself is wrong?
Are you claiming 14 out of 15 did not vote to ban Azhar? Are you saying that the technical hold on the Azhar issue was not placed by China?
Don't think the above is so secret. A technical ban has to be raised by a specific country. And it is known which country excercises its veto. How else would we know that US has used its veto to protect Israel on various occasions.

@Joe Shearer can you please chime in on the matter?
@hellfire your input would be appreciated as well.

No, he's saying that there is no consensus, that if all five don't agree, that is no consensus. And technically speaking, he's right.

I don't think he mentioned the technical hold; he knows he can't, he'd lose on that one. And it's not secret voting, AFAIK.

It's just that Chinese posters are naturally bullies, and like to promote fiction as narrative.
 
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No, he's saying that there is no consensus, that if all five don't agree, that is no consensus. And technically speaking, he's right.

I don't think he mentioned the technical hold; he knows he can't, he'd lose on that one. And it's not secret voting, AFAIK.

It's just that Chinese posters are naturally bullies, and like to promote fiction as narrative.

Haha..I figured as much.
Yeah I agree, "consensus" on the issue = all parties have to vote in favor.

But consensus as the article quotes almost makes it seem like there were other countries that were undecided.

Thanks for the clarification.
 
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Right

Right but there is a difference. Almost nobody cares about Gaza but lot many fear extremist islamism. This guy Masood symbolizes it by waging jihad and spewing venom across world. India can always nicely ask UK that this guy killed few European, involved in many terrorist attacks, plane hijack, jihad preaching in UK, Germany, usa etc...we want to ban his organization and seek Pakistans support in his capture and trial. This guy alive is much more useful for us. He is a terrorist. If China allows this resolution then our next step would be to ask Pakistanis for his handover. Pak army might be full of good fighters and music record producers but diplomacy is not their forte

Ask UK?! Since when UK become a factor in international diplomacy? Why shall Pakistan listen to UK?
 
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Masood Azhar's nephew, two aides killed in J&K
Security forces scored a major success on Tuesday, killing Jaish-e-Muhammed chief Maulana Masood Azhar's nephew, Talha Rasheed, along with Pakistani national Mehmood Bhai and local JeM cadre Wasim Ahmed Ganai, in Pulwama's Aglar village. Talha's death is seen as significant as he was involved in several terrorist attacks, including those at the Pulwama police lines and Srinagar airport recently. Sham Sunder, a soldier of 44 Rashtriya Rifles (RR), was also killed in the gunbattle. The killing of Talha is also seen as evidence of the "next phase of militancy" in the Valley with Jaish members from Pakistan taking the lead.

Talha's death is seen as significant as he was involved in several terrorist at tacks, including those at the Pulwama police lines and Srinagar airport recently. Sham Sunder, a soldier of 44 Rashtriya Rifles (RR), was also killed in the gunbattle. The killing of Talha is also seen as evidence of the "next phase of militancy" in the Valley with Jaish members from Pakistan taking the lead. Instead of local cadres, Jaish-e-Muhammed from Pakistan carried out attacks on security forces in J&K. There were reports that Talha might be the son of Abdul Rauf, a brother of Masood Azhar, who was involved in the IC-814 hijacking. Officials said terrorist groups were being forced to respond to continuous Indian Army , CRPF and J&K police operations eliminating their leaders, and that this had led to JeM sending trained fighters to India in large groups.

These terrorist groups, along with local cadres, are scouting for opportunities like last year's spectacular attack on the Pathankot IAF base. In the last few months, several top Hizbul Mujahideen commanders have been killed in security operations.
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Briefing the media, Maj Gen B S Raju, commander of the Rashtriya Rifles' Victor Force, said the recovery of US-made M4 carbines was significant. "This carbine is at present with a lot of armies within Nato. This is used by the special forces of the Pakistan Army so we have a reason to believe that this weapon was given by the Pakistan Army to JeM cadres."

There could be at least 25 JeM cadres from Pakistan still present in the Valley, said a top source. The JeM terrorists have been hiding in caves in Nooristan forest area of Tral where local cadres provide information about security forces. "The number of local militants has come down, which has compelled JeM to take centre stage in the Kashmir insurgency once again," said J&K IGP Muneer Khan.
About Talha, sources said that he and Waseem were part of the same JeM 11-member "Afzal Guru squad" that had entered India in the intervening night of August 16-17. Six of them were killed in the Pulwama police lines and BSF camp (Srinagar airport) attacks before Talha was killed on Tuesday. The new JeM fighters, sources say, are being equipped with sophisticated weapons. Apart from M4 carbines, security forces found an AK-74 rifle and a binocular that resembles the one recovered after the January 2016 Pathankot attack.

The M-4 carbine is considered very effective in close combat. It's lightweight and stable and its rounds can penetrate normal bullet-proof protection. "The recovery of the US-made carbine shows the complicity between JeM and the Pakistani establishment," Muneer Khan said. JeM spokesperson Hassan Shah identified Talha as Masood Azhar's nephew. The Jaish spokesman, while paying tribute to the slain militants, said their sacrifice wouldn't go waste. The J&K police, meanwhile, said it would ask Pakistan to take the body of Talha Rasheed.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...illed-in-jk/articleshow/61555092.cms?from=mdr
 
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