Beating the Indian Navy without going broke

[Crixus]

Still not understand why we use carriers against Pakistan Navy , shore based aircrafts are enough to do the job .... isn’t it an over kill to use aircraft carrier against PN

Chinese voted against them in FATF ...... and they still Chinese will do whatever Pakistan want ....

It's like this. If IN finds out they are being targeted by ASBMs using data from Chinese satellites, then you can expect them to take out the Chinese satellites using ASATs. You really think the Chinese will actually help you so blatantly?

China will help you with logistics, intelligence etc. But if you are expecting all sorts of cutting edge technologies, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I like when some good-for-nothing imbeciles from across the border come here to tell us what we have.

lol. This is truth. They are so insecure.

 

[randomradio]

Still not understand why we use carriers against Pakistan Navy , shore based aircrafts are enough to do the job .... isn’t it an over kill to use aircraft carrier against PN

The presence of an aircraft carrier creates a huge psychological effect on the enemy. It's a moving piece of land that you can't attack using ground forces, while it denies you the airspace. And its support assets deny the enemy the use of the sea. A CBG is the only fighting unit that completely denies the enemy all 4 dimensions, including time.

 

[Crixus]

I agree with you but I dont in the current status of Pakistani Navy 1 quadron of Jags with anti ship missiles , 3 Kolkata clas destroyers , 1 Scorpene class sub and 1 P8I are enough ....... aircraft carriers are over kill even psychological ..... Navy is more focused on China

The presence of an aircraft carrier creates a huge psychological effect on the enemy. It's a moving piece of land that you can't attack using ground forces, while it denies you the airspace. And its support assets deny the enemy the use of the sea. A CBG is the only fighting unit that completely denies the enemy all 4 dimensions, including time.

 

[randomradio]

I agree with you but I dont in the current status of Pakistani Navy 1 quadron of Jags with anti ship missiles , 3 Kolkata clas destroyers , 1 Scorpene class sub and 1 P8I are enough ....... aircraft carriers are over kill even psychological ..... Navy is more focused on China

Carrier fighters help us get around their defences from Baluchistan. Kill more, die less.

 

[Crixus]

The total coastline of Pakistan is around 1000 Kms ..... CBGs for them is overkill and their Navy is weakest of all 3 Pakistani services ....

Carrier fighters help us get around their defences from Baluchistan. Kill more, die less.

 

[FuturePAF]

Anti-Ship Ballistic Rockets/Missiles with MARV warheads with ranges of 100-700 km
Launch salvos of missiles against any task force threatening the coast. With the threat of MARV warheads, even older missiles with older warheads will be engaged if they come close enough to Carrier battle groups. Launch a few dozen at a CBG, and make the battle group use up their defensive missiles. Then Launch a couple dozen MARV armed Missiles and knock out those ships.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

How about engage in strategic sabotage in peace time and delay the deployment of such strategic assets.

They have the ability to do the same.

 

[Kharral]

They have the ability to do the same.

There is a huge disparity in their strategic military capability buildup and ours. Think of it as asymmetric warfare in a more civilised fashion but with a much much bigger impact.
Besides they are already working against our strategic projects i,e CPEC, DAMS.

 

[Basel]

It's like this. If IN finds out they are being targeted by ASBMs using data from Chinese satellites, then you can expect them to take out the Chinese satellites using ASATs. You really think the Chinese will actually help you so blatantly?

China will help you with logistics, intelligence etc. But if you are expecting all sorts of cutting edge technologies, you are sadly mistaken.

India don't have ASAT while China have one, so before chest thumping you should consider what will China do with Indian satellites, so India can not take war to space as it will suffer much more.

Carrier fighters help us get around their defences from Baluchistan. Kill more, die less.

PN is not sitting idle, for the first time since 1947 they are being transformed into a very capable fighting force which could create huge damage to IN, China knows the importance of enhancing maritime capabilities of Pakistan for CPEC that is why they are rapidly providing required equipment.

 

[CHI RULES]

The Chinese are sensible enough to arm you to the point that they will not get burned by it.

Join your own military and then find out by yourself how much real time information you actually get from the Chinese.

The Chinese will not fight your wars for you. You are on your own.

Allies only help or facilitate they do not enter in direct war same as India got free ammo from South Africa and satellite images from USA spy satellites. However though China is providing Pak gadgets on credit basis but they are not free and Pak can get only which they can afford or which is up to mark.

It's like this. If IN finds out they are being targeted by ASBMs using data from Chinese satellites, then you can expect them to take out the Chinese satellites using ASATs. You really think the Chinese will actually help you so blatantly?

China will help you with logistics, intelligence etc. But if you are expecting all sorts of cutting edge technologies, you are sadly mistaken.

Beidu is reality whether you like it or not.

 

[randomradio]

India don't have ASAT while China have one, so before chest thumping you should consider what will China do with Indian satellites, so India can not take war to space as it will suffer much more.

It's not difficult to make ASATs with our current tech.

Also, China still does not have a deployed ASAT capability.
This is a 2018 report.
https://spacenews.com/u-s-intellige...tional-anti-satellite-weapons-in-a-few-years/
U.S. intelligence predicts that “destructive” Russian and Chinese anti-satellite weapons probably will reach “initial operational capability in the next few years.”

And we have all the tech necessary to make our own ASATs. It's an extension of our BMD program. We have a midcourse BMD in the works also. This will have an altitude of 1000Km.

And:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...an-be-made-in-3-days/articleshow/61746668.cms
Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) is developing a small launch vehicle that can be assembled in just three days...
...this rocket will have the total payload capacity of 500 to 700 kg and can launch satellites only up to the polar sun-synchronous orbit or near-earth orbit (500-700 km in altitude)."

So we have the ability to make up for any losses in satellites very quickly.

India and China are not adversaries and the Chinese will not risk a position of weakness versus Japan and the US by butting heads with India for the sake of Pakistan.

PN is not sitting idle, for the first time since 1947 they are being transformed into a very capable fighting force which could create huge damage to IN, China knows the importance of enhancing maritime capabilities of Pakistan for CPEC that is why they are rapidly providing required equipment.

PN's current and known future make up present no actual threat to the IN.

Even the Australians are comfortable saying the RAN, with a far superior navy than PN, will stand no chance against the PLAN. Otoh, PN is decades away from even coming up to par with Australia.

If you want the PN to compete with the IN, you need to provide them with carriers, SSNs and AAW destroyers, apart from a robust satellite capability. Decades.

Beidu is reality whether you like it or not.

It's a navigation system. It can't find carriers.

 

[danger007]

I agree with the author but most of these things are already implimented by pakistan navy. Amd there are a few measures author forgot to memtion whuch have already been taken by naval strategic command. Recently navy is busy in area denial strategy development. Along with navies like iran, indonesia and china. Sinking carrier groups has been part of pakistan navy's prime excercises since 80's when we faced a chance of indian and soviet carriers and later after 2007 united states carriers.

Leave about Indian and Soviet flotilla but USN CBG ? Are you joking... are you aware of USN CBG fire power ??

 

[Arsalan]

Read a bit carefully, @randomradio mentions satellite tracking for guiding an ASBM to which an esteemed member claimed all you need to use an asbm is sonar. As far as ego is concerned, isn't it a Pakistani author jotting down how to beat the "IN"? talk about paradigm blindness, jeez.

I would recommend reading the posts again. Particularly posts 10, 12, 13 and 14.

Ok so here is post 10

Pakistan does have most of the systems mentioned in the article.
GIDS makes towed array radar SLTA for Pakistani surface ships and submarines. The thing can detect submarines and ships from a very long distance.
http://gids.com.pk/slta

Whats wrong with it? He is right about this.

Sonars only provide bearing. It's worthless information for targeting a carrier from far away.

NO! multiple sonars CAN be used to triangulate position. The dont ONLY give bearing.

So again, @MilSpec , i have read carefully but again is see NOTHING but a troll trying to talk about half a dozen different things just so the thread is derailed, as always.

 

[randomradio]

NO! multiple sonars CAN be used to triangulate position. The dont ONLY give bearing.

I wonder if you know how triangulation actually works.

And I wonder if you know how much effort is actually needed to first find a target and then get close to a target for triangulation to actually work.

Ever heard of marine traffic?

So again, @MilSpec , i have read carefully but again is see NOTHING but a troll trying to talk about half a dozen different things just so the thread is derailed, as always.

Silly argument. He talked about sonars, I talked about satellites.

As I pointed out before, if you need only sonars to get accurate targeting data, then why do you need ASBMs at all? Anything significantly cheaper can do the trick.

Of course, it's a different story that more capable navies cannot easily do what you have suggested, that's why we need more expensive methods like satellites and ASBMs, but I suppose Pakistan has found a way.