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Beaten up by China for going fishing

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Beaten up by China for going fishing
By Humphrey HawksleyBBC News, Vietnam
  • 8 January 2016
  • _87548723_e4fbba63-433d-45ad-a15e-30fefb560d28.jpg

  • Vietnamese fishermen say they are being attacked by China with increasing regularity. Their boats have been rammed, equipment broken and crewmen beaten up. Vietnam accuses Beijing of trying to force them out of waters in the South China Sea where their families have fished for generations.

    As the breaking dawn casts a red-orange rim around the horizon of the South China Sea, Vo Van Giau kneels on the front deck of the fishing boat and locks his hands behind his head.

    "That is what they made me do," he says, pushing his head hard down. "Then they beat me with steel rods and a hammer like this." He pulls a heavy wooden mallet from a bundle of fishing equipment and strikes himself softly on his shoulders and against his sides.
  • _87563682_south_china_sea_060116_624_v3.png

  • "My father fished these waters, my grandfather and my great-grandfather. From ancient times they have belonged to Vietnam. Now China has claimed them and invaded them illegally," says Van Giau.

    This boat is owned by a friend, 62-year-old Vo Van Chuc who has had fishing nets and tackle, together with his catch of fish, stolen by the Chinese coastguard. "All of us are threatened every time we go out," says Van Chuc.

    The boat is small and cramped and cluttered. A faded Vietnamese flag flies on a mast at the front and another above the wheelhouse. Inside there is no state-of-the-art marine equipment, just a radio, a compass and old, rusting dials.

    The two fishermen and four young deckhands all come from Ly Son, 20 miles (32km) from the Vietnamese mainland. It is a dusty, underdeveloped community which only got a reliable electricity supply last year and for generations has lived from fishing.
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Ly Son fishermen have become so crucial to Vietnam's national security that they are exempt from the country's compulsory military service. Their job is to keep working far out at sea and face down the Chinese threat against Vietnamese territory.

More and more are coming into head-on confrontation with the Chinese coastguard and navy.

The island lies on the edge of what is referred to in Vietnam as the Cow's Tongue because of the horseshoe shaped area of some 90% of the South China Sea that Beijing says is its sovereign territory.

The claim is not new. But in 2009 it lodged it formally with the United Nations. Since then it has tried to reinforce its case by building runways and ports on newly created islands in the Spratly archipelago where, in 1988, it attacked and occupied one of Vietnam's garrisoned islands with heavy loss of life.

It seized the Paracel Islands in two separate military operations in 1956 and 1974, and in 2012 reinforced its control by announcing the new Sansha prefecture there - a civilian administration which is part of Hainan province.

These waters between Vietnam and the Paracels are what Ly Son islanders call their traditional fishing grounds. Beijing has never published the exact geographical coordinates of the area it claims as its own, so the Vietnamese crews have no idea how far they can go without running into a Chinese naval or coastguard vessel.

_87508670_tranngocnguyen..jpg

"Vietnamese fishermen do not scare easily," says Tran Ngoc Nguyen, chairman of the Ly Son island district. Drawing the line of the Cow's Tongue with a blue marker pen on the map on his desk, he brushes it right next to Ly Son island. "We will keep fishing in those waters in the same numbers. It is normal that we face attack from the Chinese and it is getting worse. Of the 50 boats that went into that area this year 20 were attacked."

Close to Ngoc Nguyen's shabby office is a statue of three historic sentinel-like figures revered for protecting Vietnamese fishermen at sea over the centuries. Next to it is a small museum, filled with old maps from Britain, the United States and China itself. The idea is to show that none of these maps contain a reference to China's control of the South China Sea.


Phan Thi Hue, Former fisherman
The Ly Son fishermen are foot soldiers of this dispute, tasked by the government to make a show of resisting China's claim. Vietnam is also replenishing its outdated navy with submarines and warships from Russia, while steadily increasing its military contacts with the United States, Japan, Britain and other Western governments.

"There is more intelligence sharing, so the Vietnamese have a better awareness of what the Chinese are doing," says Murray Heibert of the Centre for Strategic and International studies in Washington DC. "China's actions are definitely pushing Hanoi closer to America."

The South China Sea, a crucial trade route for oil and freight, is fast becoming a test of wills between Washington and Beijing. More than 60% of Japan's, South Korea's and Taiwan's energy supplies come along this route.


For its part, China says it has the right to enforce measures against boats that have illegally entered its waters. A foreign ministry spokesperson would not address directly the Vietnamese allegation of the fishing boat attacks but said that China "stays unswervingly committed to peacefully resolving relevant disputes with countries directly concerned".

So far China has implemented an annual May to August fishing ban, arguing that it safeguards fish stocks, which Vietnam does not recognise. It is significant that Van Giau was beaten up in July while it was in force - although other attacks have been reported throughout the year.

We want the Chinese to stop attacking us
Vo Van Giau, fisherman
In Hanoi exhibits at the Military History Museum of captured helicopters, battle plans and crashed warplanes underline the point that Vietnam is not a country to be messed with. In its modern history it has taken on three of the five permanent members of the UN Security Council and won each time - against France in 1954, the United States in 1975 and China in 1979.

On Ly Son, Van Giau, Van Chuc and others live in a close-knit community. At a gathering of three generations at Van Chuc's sparsely furnished but spotlessly clean house, it is far from clear how long fishing will remain the bedrock of island life.

Vo Van Giau has a 17-year-old son and two daughters aged 13 and eight. So far they have expressed no enthusiasm to follow their father's career. Vo Van Chuc's 36-year-old son, Phan Thi Hue, began work as a fisherman but has now gone into tourism while his wife runs a shoe shop. "Fishing is too hard with very little money," he says. "It is also becoming dangerous."

Among the group is 81-year-old Phan Din who still crews on fishing boats. He has lived through all the conflicts of Vietnam's modern history and fully intends to keep fishing.

"We are used to having enemies," he says. "But we are clever people. I began work under the French colonialists as a driver for their officers. I had to take them to the beach with their mistresses and make sure their wives didn't find out."

As for Vo Van Giau, he has no plans to stop fishing. With his own boat repaired he will head out again to disputed waters. "We need to fish without this threat and we hope diplomatic negotiations quickly bring us peace," he says. "But we want the Chinese to stop attacking us."

n 2014 the BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes travelled across the South China Sea in a fishing boat and became the first journalist to observe close-up how China is constructing new islands on coral reefs. In December he returned to the area in a small aircraft - provoking a furious response from the Chinese Navy.

Beaten up by China for going fishing - BBC News
 
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Knock on their head and they don't know that it is unacceptable to fish illegally. LOL
How would you feel if you were assaulted despite being in territorial waters of your country like those Vietnamese?

Also if you think that it is illegal to fish for Vietnamese in their own territorial waters then by your standards Chinese are illegally fishing in their own territorial waters, that is what you basically said/claimed and I don't expect logic nor facts and I expect sticking to past and vilation of treaties and international laws that you agreed, you and your goverment continue to show that you aren't capable to act responsibly.
 
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How would you feel if you were assaulted despite being in territorial waters of your country like those Vietnamese?

Also if you think that it is illegal to fish for Vietnamese in their own territorial waters then by your standards Chinese are illegally fishing in their own territorial waters, that is what you basically said/claimed and I don't expect logic nor facts and I expect sticking to past and vilation of treaties and international laws that you agreed, you and your goverment continue to show that you aren't capable to act responsibly.
How is it in their territorial water when they fished inside the 12nm of Parcels which is completely owned and administered by us? Use your brain!

Any responsible country will protect their national boundary, water, and interest. The issue is unless we give permission, DO NOT attempt to fish in area we deem our national water. International law even allows 12nm and these Vietnamese continue to fish there. They are lucky that we are not doing what Indonesia did which is blow their fishing boat up which will end their livelihood.
 
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How would you feel if you were assaulted despite being in territorial waters of your country like those Vietnamese?

Also if you think that it is illegal to fish for Vietnamese in their own territorial waters then by your standards Chinese are illegally fishing in their own territorial waters, that is what you basically said/claimed and I don't expect logic nor facts and I expect sticking to past and vilation of treaties and international laws that you agreed, you and your goverment continue to show that you aren't capable to act responsibly.
That's Chinese territorial waters and it's despicable that Vietnamese government employs human shield strategy by sending fishermen there trying to establish status quo . If they keep coming eventually we have to arrest them for illegal fishing.
 
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How is it in their territorial water when they fished inside the 12nm of Parcels which is completely owned and administered by us? Use your brain!

How can I use my brain which I already use while you "use your brain" yet you claim that it is Chinese territorial waters despite being Vietnamese as you proceed to violate and break treaties which your goverment accepted knowingly that they don't have actual foundation for rule today.

Any responsible country will protect their national boundary, water, and interest.

How is it responsible to invade someone elses territory? How is it responsible to break treaties? How is it responsible to lie in the face of the international community? How is it responsible to steal?

The issue is unless we give permission, DO NOT attempt to fish in area we deem our national water. International law even allows 12nm and these Vietnamese continue to fish there. They are lucky that we are not doing what Indonesia did which is blow their fishing boat up which will end their livelihood.

Why should Vietnamese fishermen ask permission to fish in their own territorial waters? Because of structures? Structures on islands that belong to Vietnam according to international law that your goverment accepted thus how can illegal structure be a foundation based on legallity which those structures lacks because they are on Vietnamese islands.

That's Chinese territorial waters and it's despicable that Vietnamese government employs human shield strategy by sending fishermen there trying to establish status quo . If they keep coming eventually we have to arrest them for illegal fishing.

Vietnamese isn't Chinese, you can't claim someone elses territorial waters as your own except if you want to break international law that your country agreed with, how is that responsible?

Okay, arrest them for illegal fishing in Vietnamese waters... Oh wait...[/QUOTE]
 
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How can I use my brain which I already use while you "use your brain" yet you claim that it is Chinese territorial waters despite being Vietnamese as you proceed to violate and break treaties which your goverment accepted knowingly that they don't have actual foundation for rule today.



How is it responsible to invade someone elses territory? How is it responsible to break treaties? How is it responsible to lie in the face of the international community? How is it responsible to steal?



Why should Vietnamese fishermen ask permission to fish in their own territorial waters? Because of structures? Structures on islands that belong to Vietnam according to international law that your goverment accepted thus how can illegal structure be a foundation based on legallity which those structures lacks because they are on Vietnamese islands.

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I'm not going to sit here and waste to,e educating you about the geographical feature of SCS okay? Our message is clear: anyone who dare violating our territorial rights and fishing illegally in our national water will be arrest and beat up as a warning.

Lastly, you are a pretty stupid so I'm not sure why I even bother responding to you. Retard, go learn about SCS feature and who owned what before you talk. LOL
 
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Check Wikipedia on Paracel islands to get your facts straight, China has every right for those islands .Who ever dares to rob them from us....The world knows how powerful China is and how powerful she will become, so, think twice before you do anything stupid. China is being a nice giant to small countries now , She has more than enough ability to force her will, but she chose not to. don't take it as a sign of weakness
 
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I'm not going to sit here and waste to,e educating you about the geographical feature of SCS okay? Our message is clear: anyone who dare violating our territorial rights and fishing illegally in our national water will be arrest and beat up as a warning.

Its your territory if you're a Vietnamese...

Lastly, you are a pretty stupid so I'm not sure why I even bother responding to you. LOL

I am stupid because you keep claiming like an idiot that Vietnamese territorial waters and islands are Chinese despite being Vietnamese and despite your goverment accepting international law and now wants to break it despite not having any legal foundation except outdated documents, by your logic my country could claim half of Poland, third of Ukraine and small parts of few other countries and south-western parts of Iran if they cared about past that happened over 1000 years ago.

Check Wikipedia on Paracel islands to get your facts straight, China has every right for those islands .Who ever dares to rob them from us....The world knows how powerful China is and how powerful she will become, so, think twice before you do anything stupid. China is being a nice giant to small countries now , She has more than enough ability to force her will, but she chose not to. don't take it as a sign of weakness

I already have done so and again, how is legal to claim that Vietnamese islands belong to China?
 
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Its your territory if you're a Vietnamese...



I am stupid because you keep claiming like an idiot that Vietnamese territorial waters and islands are Chinese despite being Vietnamese and despite your goverment accepting international law and now wants to break it despite not having any legal foundation except outdated documents, by your logic my country could claim half of Poland, third of Ukraine and small parts of few other countries and south-western parts of Iran if they cared about past that happened over 1000 years ago.



I already have done so and again, how is legal to claim that Vietnamese islands belong to China?





reported for trolling,, seems like you will get banned again very soon!
 
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I already have done so and again, how is legal to claim that Vietnamese islands belong to China?

It has been Chinese territory for thousands of years and China took them back from Japan after Japan was defeated right after WWII. Even French colonialists admitted that they belong to China when they ruled Vietnam. and as I mentioned ,we can do that by force with our overwhelming might. but we chose not to, this very fact shows how restraint we are when we are dealing with small countries.
 
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Its your territory if you're a Vietnamese...



I am stupid because you keep claiming like an idiot that Vietnamese territorial waters and islands are Chinese despite being Vietnamese and despite your goverment accepting international law and now wants to break it despite not having any legal foundation except outdated documents, by your logic my country could claim half of Poland, third of Ukraine and small parts of few other countries and south-western parts of Iran if they cared about past that happened over 1000 years ago.



I already have done so and again, how is legal to claim that Vietnamese islands belong to China?
I challenge your brain. If it is their territory, then why aren't their military station on Paracel Islands? LOL

Another challenge, which international law that say Paracel belong to Vietnam? Using your dumb logic, if Vietnam made a claim it belongs to them, then it means it belongs to them? Can we made the same claim, too? you see, my friend, it is important to exert your claim by imposing force. That force can only be showed and prove by administering the feature which we did 100%. There is not single Vietnamese allow to step foot on Paracel's feature without getting shot. That is international law given to country to protect their territorial rights.
 
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Do you know that Vietnamese government recognized that those islands are China's and later they renounced, that is a very despicable act in nature.

On 1958.9.14, Vietnam Premier explicitly, officially recognized China's sovereignty over the South China Sea islands in his letter to China's Premier Zhou Enlai.
Here is the photography of the letter:
main-qimg-3396f81abe1587c8f97a511ee3c2be06


It stated that:

Comrade Primmer HE,

We earnestly declare to Comrade Premier:
The government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam recognize and support the declaration and decision on territorial waters made by the government of the People's Republic of China on 1958.9.4.

The Premier of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Phạm Văn Đồng (signature and seal)
The declaration, 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日) , explicitly stated:
(一)中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土,包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿,和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。

I. The width of China's territorial waters is 12 nm. This rule applies to all the territory of the People's Republic of China, including China's mainland and its coastal islands, the islands that was separated from mainland and coastal islands by international waters which are Taiwan and its surrounding islands, Penghu islands, Dongsha (Pratas) Islands, Xisha (Paracel) Islands, Zhongsha Islands (Macclesfield Bank), Nansha (Spratly) Islands and other islands that belongs to China.

The U-shape line was the essentially the middle line between those islands and the coast of the surrounding countries.

Geographic distance is never a decisive basis on determining a border. An extreme example is the Greece-Turkey water border:
 
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reported for trolling,, seems like you will get banned again very soon!

I am going to be banned because I am not trolling? Good...

It has been Chinese territory for thousands of years and China took them back from Japan after Japan was defeated right after WWII. Even French colonialists admitted that they belong to China when they ruled Vietnam. and as I mentioned ,we can do that by force with our overwhelming might. but we chose not to, this very fact shows how restraint we are when we are dealing with small countries.

It doesn't change the historical fact that it is Vietnamese territory.

Do you know that Vietnamese government recognized that those islands are China's and later they renounced, that is a very despicable act in nature.

On 1958.9.14, Vietnam Premier explicitly, officially recognized China's sovereignty over the South China Sea islands in his letter to China's Premier Zhou Enlai.
Here is the photography of the letter:
main-qimg-3396f81abe1587c8f97a511ee3c2be06


It stated that:

Comrade Primmer HE,

We earnestly declare to Comrade Premier:
The government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam recognize and support the declaration and decision on territorial waters made by the government of the People's Republic of China on 1958.9.4.

The Premier of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Phạm Văn Đồng (signature and seal)
The declaration, 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日) , explicitly stated:
(一)中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土,包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿,和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。

I. The width of China's territorial waters is 12 nm. This rule applies to all the territory of the People's Republic of China, including China's mainland and its coastal islands, the islands that was separated from mainland and coastal islands by international waters which are Taiwan and its surrounding islands, Penghu islands, Dongsha (Pratas) Islands, Xisha (Paracel) Islands, Zhongsha Islands (Macclesfield Bank), Nansha (Spratly) Islands and other islands that belongs to China.

The U-shape line was the essentially the middle line between those islands and the coast of the surrounding countries.

Geographic distance is never a decisive basis on determining a border. An extreme example is the Greece-Turkey water border:

I am aware of that, but using it as proving your point is laughable as it is Vietnamese territory and claiming otherwise is utter fallacy, that letter does not prove those islands are Chinese and you can claim otherwise and troll while one of your comrades lies about me and claims that I am trolling...

Well that is when Chinese suffer from confirmation bias, ultranationalists like the turks and the russians... Ignore the truth and make your own "truth", ignore the facts, create your own "facts"...
 
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That's Chinese territorial waters and it's despicable that Vietnamese government employs human shield strategy by sending fishermen there trying to establish status quo . If they keep coming eventually we have to arrest them for illegal fishing.
You dare to create a thread with the aim to insult and threat us? You run amok, don't you?
You will impress me if you run naked through Beijing street. If not, you are just annoying.

Do you know that Vietnamese government recognized that those islands are China's and later they renounced, that is a very despicable act in nature.

On 1958.9.14, Vietnam Premier explicitly, officially recognized China's sovereignty over the South China Sea islands in his letter to China's Premier Zhou Enlai.
Here is the photography of the letter:
main-qimg-3396f81abe1587c8f97a511ee3c2be06


It stated that:

Comrade Primmer HE,

We earnestly declare to Comrade Premier:
The government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam recognize and support the declaration and decision on territorial waters made by the government of the People's Republic of China on 1958.9.4.

The Premier of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam
Phạm Văn Đồng (signature and seal)
The declaration, 中华人民共和国政府关于领海的声明(1958年9月4日) , explicitly stated:
(一)中华人民共和国的领海宽度为12海里。这项规定适用于中华人民共和国的一切领土,包括中国大陆及其沿海岛屿,和同大陆及其沿海岛屿隔有公海的台湾及其周围各岛、澎湖列岛、东沙群岛、西沙群岛、中沙群岛、南沙群岛以及其他属于中国的岛屿。

I. The width of China's territorial waters is 12 nm. This rule applies to all the territory of the People's Republic of China, including China's mainland and its coastal islands, the islands that was separated from mainland and coastal islands by international waters which are Taiwan and its surrounding islands, Penghu islands, Dongsha (Pratas) Islands, Xisha (Paracel) Islands, Zhongsha Islands (Macclesfield Bank), Nansha (Spratly) Islands and other islands that belongs to China.

The U-shape line was the essentially the middle line between those islands and the coast of the surrounding countries.

Geographic distance is never a decisive basis on determining a border. An extreme example is the Greece-Turkey water border:
The paper is worthless.
 
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