Bayraktars Are Falling! Turkey’s ‘Much-Hyped’ TB2 Drones Are Losing Steam Against Russian Missiles As Ukraine Limits Their Usage

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

I don't know about gambit, but my job is safe, I process intelligence for my living, unless you can find an AI system that can process what is fake and what is not, and match that with real event, my job is safe.

May be not today but AI will surely takeover all tasks from all Humans.

 

[jhungary]

May be not today but AI will surely takeover all tasks from all Humans.

I will probably be dead by then....I am not a young person. I am almost in my mid-40s

 

[dBSPL]

These photos are from Djibouti state television in the morning, proudly showing tactical drones. I don't count the number of countries anymore, I think there are 30 countries in total. If you include Chinese systems in it, you can roughly multiply this number by two.

By gaining access to these systems, African countries began to have a historic opportunity to rid their countries of terrorism, more importantly, to get rid of the military assets of the traditional colonial countries of Europe. In other words, these systems have become an element that affects not only the tactical needs on the battlefield, but also the policies of countries geostrategically.

I found a graph about tactical/MALE drone exporters...

It is a very superficial point of view to see Turkiye and China's drone sales as just an arms sale. These two countries add invaluable political leverage to many countries which have limited military capabilities.

 

[SQ8]

No one sucks their own shlong more than Bhaktora Indians.
Creates a thread on the TB2 and then goes out to suck his own eeny one shloop shloop posting on Indian IADs.

 

[jhungary]

I found a graph about tactical/MALE drone exporters...

It is a very superficial point of view to see Turkiye and China's drone sales as just an arms sale. These two countries add invaluable political leverage to many countries which have limited military capabilities.

Also, it's worth notice that the reason why US sold so little drone to foreign customer is that before 2019, there are some sort of export restriction on Armed Drones, the US for whatever reason decided to put armed drone into sensitive technology category and prohibit their selling to really close allies, its harder to get State Department approval for sales of MQ-1 than F-16, they are in similar category than F-22 or F-35.

In 2019, Trump reverse the restriction but well, the war in Iraq is over and War in Afghan is in late stage, also most country would already have their own armed drone by then, the US somehow shoot themselve on the foot for this...

U.S. Policy on the Export of Unmanned Aerial Systems - United States Department of State

This fact sheet has been updated since its original posting; see current version. The President has approved a new policy on the export of unmanned aerial systems (UAS). This policy updates and replaces the previous policy announced February 17, 2015. This policy will apply to all U.S.-origin...

www.state.gov

 

[Oublious]

lol

Look to the reaction of haters, TB2 shotdown great Russians ahahah...

wher all the TB2 shotdown? According to Russian Turkey delivered something about 70, so wher are the wreckages?

 

[RescueRanger]

Goodnight sweet prince.

 

[Beny Karachun]

Drones were literally made in mind to be shot down, their first usage was bait to keep jet fighters safe, because the pilot is more valuable than the drone.

If a drone can cause damage that justifies its cost, and the TB-2 did just that, that means the drone is doing its job.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Drones were literally made in mind to be shot down, their first usage was bait to keep jet fighters safe, because the pilot is more valuable than the drone.

If a drone can cause damage that justifies its cost, and the TB-2 did just that, that means the drone is doing its job.

This drone in particular has caused damage in Russian military hardware and infrastructure worth hundreds and hundreds of millions USD and killed probably hundreds if not over 1000 Russian soldiers and militias during its various operations all over Ukraine (and Libya + Karabağ).

If this is not success what is? People think that a drone has to be invincible. Anything beneath that is counted as junk....

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

There are signs that the hype around Turkish TB-2 Bayraktar drones’ lethality is being busted. Cracks have emerged in the Ukrainian military over continuing their use after improved Russian air defenses shot down scores of Bayraktar drones.

It manifests in the reluctance to use the American-made $10 million worth of Gray Eagle strike drones against “layered” and “massive” air defenses comprising S-300, Buk, Tor-M2, and Panstir air defense systems.

These are controlled by Russia’s Western Military District bordering eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region, where the fight has now moved.

A Foreign Policy report said differences had emerged between frontline troops, airmen, and the senior Ukrainian General Staff, where the latter continues to push for heavy reliance on the drones.

The Bayraktar TB2 drone had been effective against Russian armored and logistics columns in the initial days of the war before beginning to get rapidly shot down, forcing the Ukrainians to reduce their employment to 20 to 30 sorties a day.

Moreover, their success was merely tactical. Russia achieved most of its strategic and tactical aims, the biggest one being the fall of Mariupol, where nearly 2,000 Azov Brigade fighters surrendered in mid-May
View attachment 857122
In the east in Donbas, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky himself admitted that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were losing “100 soldiers each day.” Russia is making slow, grinding yet incremental progress and is on the verge of entirely securing the breakaway Peoples’ Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk

Interestingly, US Pentagon officials are reluctant to sell the MQ-1c Gray Eagle drones to Ukraine, fearing Russia might access the sensitive technologies if they are shot down. An option to switch the sensitive electronics for less advanced ones would degrade their capabilities.

More Pilots, Fewer Jets

Saying they have “more pilots than jets” now, Ukrainian military officials say they need legacy platforms like F-15 and F-16 jets to perform more complex missions, possibly taking the fight into Russia. Their air force has been engaged in primarily close air support (CAS) missions.

However, the risks associated with acquiring conventional multirole fighter aircraft are two. Directly throwing them into the fray without adequate training to understand each plane’s flight characteristics and advantages and develop tactics takes several months.

This is after the lengthy Congressional procedure to allow their sale, followed by the commercial modalities and the planes’ eventual arrival, which takes years. Worse Ukrainian pilots and ground crews are used to Soviet-era planes with radically different piloting, design, control, and maintenance philosophies.

Secondly, President Joe Biden had declined the sale of the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) component of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) to prevent Ukraine from using it to strike inside Russia and escalating the conflict.

It is thus unlikely he might support even bigger and more destructive platforms like jets.

Bayraktar TB2 Drones

But this also draws attention to the hype around Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAV), which are vulnerable to a peer adversary commanding a conventional army.

The TB-2 shot to fame in the September 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war, where videos show the drones destroying scores of Armenian artillery, armor, bunkers, and air defense systems.

Tactical successes, nevertheless, their role in the overall Azerbaijani victory was also greatly exaggerated, with many of the battlefield victories achieved by long-range fires and artillery – apparently something also heavily employed by Russia to devastating effect in Ukraine.

In the initial days of the war, Russia fired several dozen Kalibr cruise missiles inside Ukraine, softening military and industrial targets that degraded Kyiv’s defense manufacturing capability.

The ‘artillery first’ army has successfully employed its unorthodox doctrine of executing its ground operations around gun and rocket artillery, where infantry, armored and mechanized forces first engage and degrade enemy targets before calling in strikes to mop up what is left.

Neither can loitering munitions turn the tide in a war like this, primarily because they will be limited in numbers when the UAF run out of them at some point. At the same time, Russia’s defense industry can rapidly produce the lost platforms.

Their manner of a ‘long war’ and not looking for quick, decisive victories allows them the time to keep fighting until their strategic aims are achieved. It is different; loitering munitions themselves can’t always be called drones.

AeroVironment, the US manufacturer of the Switchblade systems, calls it a “loitering missile.”

And with Ukraine admittedly having almost lost all its Soviet-era artillery, ammunition, and armor, Russia can rely on infantry and long-range artillery to engage them, limiting the use of their tanks and mechanized infantry.

It would provide fewer targets for drones and loitering munitions, which have limited use against ground troops, as they are armed to destroy heavier targets.

New weapons and concepts have given modern warfare a new face but they have proven to be mere disruptors, with certain traditional practices remaining relevant. It doesn’t mean that drones are useless, but it clearly indicates that they remain highly vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles.

Bayraktars Are Falling! Turkey's 'Much-Hyped' TB2 Drones Are Losing Steam Against Russian Missiles As Ukraine Limits Their Usage

The Bayraktar TB2 drone had been effective against Russian armored and logistics columns in the initial days of the Ukraine war.

eurasiantimes.com

This is the whole point and advantage of drones, they are expendable

If its was fighter jet or attack chopper that was downed, the losses are much more in terms of cost and human life

 

[Joe Shearer]

May be not today but AI will surely takeover all tasks from all Humans.

What a pleasing thought!

Some day some AI programme will make intelligent posts on your behalf, and the whole world will be happy.

I will probably be dead by then....I am not a young person. I am almost in my mid-40s

Pretty good going, bud.

You're more than half my age.

It is difficult to understand the point OP was trying to make. As numerous posts have pointed out, a drone risks neither personnel nor a high-cost aircraft; it is the cheapest method known at the moment of combining accurate targeting with a very low (relative) cost of failure.

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

What a pleasing thought!

Some day some AI programme will make intelligent posts on your behalf, and the whole world will be happy.

AI posts makes more sense than posts made by you. You are a perfect example of how not to communicate. Hope one day you will put your big ego aside and make posts that people can understand.

 

[Joe Shearer]

AI posts makes more sense than posts made by you. You are a perfect example of how not to communicate. Hope one day you will put your big ego aside and make posts that people can understand.

I don't do stupid.

 

[925boy]

lol

Look to the reaction of haters, TB2 shotdown great Russians ahahah...

Yes i'm also here laughing clown.

wher all the TB2 shotdown? According to Russian Turkey delivered something about 70, so wher are the wreckages?

if these 70 TB2s were not shot down, then where are they? why are they not all flying?/ LMAO - they cant fly cuz they are mostly dead, aka shot down.

 

[ProudPak]

There are signs that the hype around Turkish TB-2 Bayraktar drones’ lethality is being busted. Cracks have emerged in the Ukrainian military over continuing their use after improved Russian air defenses shot down scores of Bayraktar drones.

It manifests in the reluctance to use the American-made $10 million worth of Gray Eagle strike drones against “layered” and “massive” air defenses comprising S-300, Buk, Tor-M2, and Panstir air defense systems.

These are controlled by Russia’s Western Military District bordering eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region, where the fight has now moved.

A Foreign Policy report said differences had emerged between frontline troops, airmen, and the senior Ukrainian General Staff, where the latter continues to push for heavy reliance on the drones.

The Bayraktar TB2 drone had been effective against Russian armored and logistics columns in the initial days of the war before beginning to get rapidly shot down, forcing the Ukrainians to reduce their employment to 20 to 30 sorties a day.

Moreover, their success was merely tactical. Russia achieved most of its strategic and tactical aims, the biggest one being the fall of Mariupol, where nearly 2,000 Azov Brigade fighters surrendered in mid-May
View attachment 857122
In the east in Donbas, Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky himself admitted that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were losing “100 soldiers each day.” Russia is making slow, grinding yet incremental progress and is on the verge of entirely securing the breakaway Peoples’ Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk

Interestingly, US Pentagon officials are reluctant to sell the MQ-1c Gray Eagle drones to Ukraine, fearing Russia might access the sensitive technologies if they are shot down. An option to switch the sensitive electronics for less advanced ones would degrade their capabilities.

More Pilots, Fewer Jets

Saying they have “more pilots than jets” now, Ukrainian military officials say they need legacy platforms like F-15 and F-16 jets to perform more complex missions, possibly taking the fight into Russia. Their air force has been engaged in primarily close air support (CAS) missions.

However, the risks associated with acquiring conventional multirole fighter aircraft are two. Directly throwing them into the fray without adequate training to understand each plane’s flight characteristics and advantages and develop tactics takes several months.

This is after the lengthy Congressional procedure to allow their sale, followed by the commercial modalities and the planes’ eventual arrival, which takes years. Worse Ukrainian pilots and ground crews are used to Soviet-era planes with radically different piloting, design, control, and maintenance philosophies.

Secondly, President Joe Biden had declined the sale of the Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) component of the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS) to prevent Ukraine from using it to strike inside Russia and escalating the conflict.

It is thus unlikely he might support even bigger and more destructive platforms like jets.

Bayraktar TB2 Drones

But this also draws attention to the hype around Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAV), which are vulnerable to a peer adversary commanding a conventional army.

The TB-2 shot to fame in the September 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war, where videos show the drones destroying scores of Armenian artillery, armor, bunkers, and air defense systems.

Tactical successes, nevertheless, their role in the overall Azerbaijani victory was also greatly exaggerated, with many of the battlefield victories achieved by long-range fires and artillery – apparently something also heavily employed by Russia to devastating effect in Ukraine.

In the initial days of the war, Russia fired several dozen Kalibr cruise missiles inside Ukraine, softening military and industrial targets that degraded Kyiv’s defense manufacturing capability.

The ‘artillery first’ army has successfully employed its unorthodox doctrine of executing its ground operations around gun and rocket artillery, where infantry, armored and mechanized forces first engage and degrade enemy targets before calling in strikes to mop up what is left.

Neither can loitering munitions turn the tide in a war like this, primarily because they will be limited in numbers when the UAF run out of them at some point. At the same time, Russia’s defense industry can rapidly produce the lost platforms.

Their manner of a ‘long war’ and not looking for quick, decisive victories allows them the time to keep fighting until their strategic aims are achieved. It is different; loitering munitions themselves can’t always be called drones.

AeroVironment, the US manufacturer of the Switchblade systems, calls it a “loitering missile.”

And with Ukraine admittedly having almost lost all its Soviet-era artillery, ammunition, and armor, Russia can rely on infantry and long-range artillery to engage them, limiting the use of their tanks and mechanized infantry.

It would provide fewer targets for drones and loitering munitions, which have limited use against ground troops, as they are armed to destroy heavier targets.

New weapons and concepts have given modern warfare a new face but they have proven to be mere disruptors, with certain traditional practices remaining relevant. It doesn’t mean that drones are useless, but it clearly indicates that they remain highly vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles.

Bayraktars Are Falling! Turkey's 'Much-Hyped' TB2 Drones Are Losing Steam Against Russian Missiles As Ukraine Limits Their Usage

The Bayraktar TB2 drone had been effective against Russian armored and logistics columns in the initial days of the Ukraine war.

eurasiantimes.com

Eurasiantimes...

Enough said

Scared? Are you kidding...

India is more focused on the air defense.... It is on the way to protect with multi-layer defense missile systems.

Pakistan has almost nothing except a few defense systems.. Pakistan will always be the more losing side if India will fire the missiles and use UAVs..

Gosh u are the next modi for sure.