Battle of Yarmouk

[Banu Umayyah]

The founders of Islam plagiarised heavily from Jewish and Christian scriptures to give some sense of legitimacy to their new religion, in comparison with the religions followed by people in their neigbhourhood i.e. Christians in north-western middle-east and Zoroastrians in Persia.
There is even evidence in the hadiths that the founder of Islam paid the Jews of Yathrib (now called Medina) for the stories from the Torah so that he could modify them to his convenience and present it the ignorant Arabs as divine revelation. Some scholars claim that the founder of Islam wiped out the Jews of Israel and in his last sermon commanded his followers to eliminate all Jews from all of Arabia, to cover his tracks.
We also know that the founder of Islam had some Christian women slaves, most likely coptic, from whom he got the Christian Biblical stories, both new and old testaments. That is why the Islamic scriptures stories of Christian Biblical characters are so similar to the coptic versions.

Do you invent stuff as you go along cow worshipper?
FYI, most stories in the Torah that was in the Qur'an were in Mecci Suras, so much before coptic mary.
So, the question remains, can you provide a single credible source that Mohammed(PBUM) borrowed anything from anyone regarding anything?
and don't use "scholars" say anonymously, I want a reference to a credible book.

 

[Bratva]

Do you invent stuff as you go along cow worshipper?
FYI, most stories in the Torah that was in the Qur'an were in Mecci Suras, so much before coptic mary.
So, the question remains, can you provide a single credible source that Mohammed(PBUM) borrowed anything from anyone regarding anything?
and don't use "scholars" say anonymously, I want a reference to a credible book.

Lack of meat infecting their IQ and mental levels.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Whatever you say, it doesnt cover up the goof-up the founder of Islam made by confusing Mary the sister of Moses and Mary the mother of Jesus. If Mary the mother of Jesus is metaphorically referred to as sister of Moses because she comes from lineage of Aaron, the brother of Moses, then she will be a daughter of Moses/Aaron. Only contemporaries are referred as brother/sister and the descendants are always referred as sons/daughters.

Refer to my previous post. Mary being referred to as the sister of Aaron is an idiomatic expression in the Quran.

Idiom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A simple definition of the term "idiomatic" from Google is:

Using, containing, or denoting expressions that are natural to a native speaker: "distinctive idiomatic dialogue".

Most scholars, both Islamic and non-Islamic, are of the opinion that the character of "Dhul-Qarnayn" mentioned in the Islamic scriptures are Alexander who is supposed to have reached the ends of the world and seen the sun go into a marshy pool. Even if "Dhul-Qarnayn" is Cyrus, still he is pagan.

Scholars have varying opinions on the subject, refer to my previous post once again.

Individuals besides "Alexander" & "Cyrus" such as "Heraclius" are discussed in debates regarding the identity of "Dhul-Qarnayn".

Some scholars claim that Cyrus wasn't pagan & believed in the one true God, keep in mind that the Zoroastrian religion was in its early stages & would not have been corrupted at this point in time.

In fact Cyrus of Persia does declare his belief in the one true God in the previous scriptures.

This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: "'The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. (Ezra; 1:2)

Regarding how the illiterate founder of Islam came across the Jewish and Christian scripture stories, refer to the post#87 of this thread.

There is no proof of that whatsoever, if that was true then why did the Jews or the other pagan Arabs of Madinah not use that incident to defame Islam?

The early followers of Islam closely monitored the last Prophet & never found any flaws in his character.

 

[shuntmaster]

Do you invent stuff as you go along cow worshipper?
FYI, most stories in the Torah that was in the Qur'an were in Mecci Suras, so much before coptic mary.
So, the question remains, can you provide a single credible source that Mohammed(PBUM) borrowed anything from anyone regarding anything?
and don't use "scholars" say anonymously, I want a reference to a credible book.

Sorry, I'm a cow eater, not a cow worshipper.
I could give you many sources and references to back my claims. But, that would give me a instant ban here, which has happened to me many times before. If you are really interested, google for prophet_of_doom, which has a very exhaustive research on the subject.

Also, the founder of Islam had visited Damacus which was the centre of eastern christianity during those times. There were plenty of Jews and Christians in Arabia during the founding of Islam. So, the founder of Islam definitely had access to Jews and Christians and through them their religious stories in oral form. Majority of Arabia during that time was illiterate and majority of religious interactions were in verbal form.

 

[somebozo]

Individuals besides "Alexander" & "Cyrus" such as "Heraclius" are discussed in debates regarding the identity of "Dhul-Qarnayn".

Some scholars claim that Cyrus wasn't pagan & believed in the one true God, keep in mind that the Zoroastrian religion was in its early stages & would not have been corrupted at this point in time.

In fact Cyrus of Persia does declare his belief in the one true God in the previous scriptures.

The Persian believed in one god and offered 5 times a day prayers - something which was missing from the Arabs. This is evident in the letter sent by Yazgerd III to Khalifa Umar Ibn Khattab

The founders of Islam plagiarised heavily from Jewish and Christian scriptures to give some sense of legitimacy to their new religion, in comparison with the religions followed by people in their neigbhourhood i.e. Christians in north-western middle-east and Zoroastrians in Persia.

The Zorostatians were once followers of the same religions sent before islam - proof is numerous graves of Semitic prophets in Iran and so were Jews and Christians..Hence the traditions, rules and customs carry heavy resemblance. Islam primary resistance and fight was against polytheism and idolatry - Not Christianity, Judaism and Zorostism.

Further, these three have been declared ahle-kitab hence it is permissible to marry among them and eat with them and accept the cattle sacrificed by them.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

The Persian believed in one god and offered 5 times a day prayers - something which was missing from the Arabs. This is evident in the letter sent by Yazgerd III to Khalifa Umar Ibn Khattab

I am uncertain about pre-Islamic Persians offering their prayers 5 times day. Is there a copy of that letter online?

 

[SQ8]

Sorry, I'm a cow eater, not a cow worshipper.
I could give you many sources and references to back my claims. But, that would give me a instant ban here, which has happened to me many times before. If you are really interested, google for prophet_of_doom, which has a very exhaustive research on the subject.

So you used a hate book to do your research??

How very unbiased of you.

 

[Banu Umayyah]

Refer to my previous post. Mary being referred to as the sister of Aaron is an idiomatic expression in the Quran.

Idiom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A simple definition of the term "idiomatic" from Google is:

Not only that, but it was mentioned in the Qur'an once as a quoting of what the Jews said to her"Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.{}O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."}(19:27-28)
A quote doesn't nessesarly mean you agree to what is said.
What this pagan don't understand, is that Muslims don't consider Imams/Mullas as infallible, we cross everything to Quran and authentic hadiths to accept it. Since te identity of Dual Quarnayn was not mentioned in any of these two, no one can claim who really he was.

 

[Banu Umayyah]

Sorry, I'm a cow eater, not a cow worshipper.
I could give you many sources and references to back my claims. But, that would give me a instant ban here, which has happened to me many times before. If you are really interested, google for prophet_of_doom, which has a very exhaustive research on the subject.

Also, the founder of Islam had visited Damacus which was the centre of eastern christianity during those times. There were plenty of Jews and Christians in Arabia during the founding of Islam. So, the founder of Islam definitely had access to Jews and Christians and through them their religious stories in oral form. Majority of Arabia during that time was illiterate and majority of religious interactions were in verbal form.

Ok, so now you changed your position from affirmation to speculation. I asked for a proof, not what is possible.

 

[somebozo]

I am uncertain about pre-Islamic Persians offering their prayers 5 times day. Is there a copy of that letter online?

Source: Iran Heritage


From: Shahanshah of Persian Empire, Yazdgird III Sassanid
To: Omar Ibn Al Khatab, Khalifat of Tazi (Persian term for Arabs)

In the name of Ahura Mazda, creator of Life and Intelligence you in your letter wrote that you want to direct us towards your God, Allah, without having the true knowledge of who we are and what do we worship! It is amazing that you occupy the position of Khalifat (Ruler) of Arabs, yet your knowledge is the same as a lowly Arab rambler, roaming in deserts of Arabia and same as a desert tribal man (mardak) you offer me to worship a united and single God without knowing that it has been thousands of years that Persians worship the mono God and they pray to him Five Times a day! In this land of culture and art this has been the normal path of life for years. When we established the tradition of hospitality and good deeds in the world and we waved the flag of "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" in our hands, you and your ancestors were roaming the deserts, eating Lizards for you had nothing else to feed yourselves and burying your innocent daughters alive (an old Arab tradition because they preferred male children to female). Tazi people have no value for God's creatures! You behead God's children, even the POWs (Prisoners of War), Rape Women, bury your daughters alive, attack the Caravans, mass murder, kidnap people's wives and steal their property! Your hearts are made of stone; we condemn all these Evil which you do. How can you teach us Godly Ways when you commit these actions? You tell me to stop my Fire Worship! Us, Persians see the Love of Creator and power of inventor in the light of Sun and warmth of Fire. Lights and Warmth of the Sun and Fire makes us see the light of truth and warms our hearts to the creator and to one another. It helps us to be kind to one another; it enlightens us and makes us to keep Mazda's Flame, alive in our hearts. Our lord is Ahura Mazda and it is strange that you people also, just discovered him and named him Allah.

But we are not the same as you; we are not in the same level as you. We help other human being, we spread love among humanity, we spread Good throughout the Earth, we have been spreading our culture but in respect for other cultures throughout the whole world for thousands of years, yet you in the name of Allah invade other men's land! You mass murder the people, create famine, fear and poverty for others, you create Evil in the name of Allah. Who is responsible for this entire catastrophe? Is it Allah who commands you to murder, pillage and to destroy? Is it you the followers of Allah who do this in his name? Or is it both? You have risen from heat of the deserts and burnt out infertile lands with no resources, you want to teach people the love of God by your military campaigns and the power of your Swords! You are Desert Savages, yet you want to teach Urban people like us who lived in the cities for thousands of years, the love of God! We have thousands of years of culture behind us, a powerful tool indeed!

Tell us? With all your military campaigns, barbarianism, murder and pillage in the name of Allah, what have you taught to this Muslim Army? What knowledge have you taught the Muslim that you also insist on teaching it to non Muslim? What culture have you learned from our Allah, now that you want to force-teach it to others? Alas, ...... that today our Persian Armies of Ahura have been defeated from your recently Allah Worshiping Armies; Now, our people have to worship the same God, the same Five times a day, but forced by the sword to call him Allah and pray to him in Arabic because your Allah only understands Arabic I suggest, you and your gang of bandits pack up and move back to your deserts where they are used to live. Take them back where they used to the burning heat of the sun, tribal life, eating Lizards and drinking Camel Milk. I forbid you to let your band of thieves loose in our fertile lands, civilized cities and our glorious nation. Don't turn these "beasts with hearts of stone" loose, to mass murder our people, kidnap our women and children, rape our wives and send our daughters to Mecca as slaves! Don't let them do these crimes in the name of Allah put a stop to your criminal behavior. Aryans are forgiving, warm, hospitable, and decent people and everywhere they went, they have spread seeds of friendship, love, knowledge and truth; therefore, they shall not punish you and your people for your pirate ways and criminal acts. I beg you to remain with your Allah in your deserts and do not move close to our civilized cities, for your believers are "Much Fearful" and your behavior is "Most Barbaric."
sign,
Yazdgird III Sassanid

 

[shuntmaster]

Not only that, but it was mentioned in the Qur'an once as a quoting of what the Jews said to her"Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.{}O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."}(19:27-28)
A quote doesn't nessesarly mean you agree to what is said.
What this pagan don't understand, is that Muslims don't consider Imams.Mullas as infallible, we cross everything to Quran and authentic hadiths to accept it. Since te identity of Dual Quarnayn was not mentioned in any of these two, no one can claim who really he was.

The brothers Moses and Aaron did have a sister named Mary. She was the same girl who placed the baby Moses in a basket and left it in the river Nile.
The goof-up the founders of Moses did was confuse this Mary with Mary the mother of Jesus, making Jesus a nephew of Moses, even though they were separated by centuries.
This is just one example of the goof-up in the Islamic scriptures from the plagiarised jewish/christian stories, there are plenty of others. If I start quoting them, I'm definitely going to get banned, which has happened before.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Not only that, but it was mentioned in the Qur'an once as a quoting of what the Jews said to her"Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.{}O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."}(19:27-28)
A quote doesn't nessesarly mean you agree to what is said.
What this pagan don't understand, is that Muslims don't consider Imams.Mullas as infallible, we cross everything to Quran and authentic hadiths to accept it. Since te identity of Dual Quarnayn was not mentioned in any of these two, no one can claim who really he was.

I agree that it was the Hebrews that referred to her as the "sister of Aaron". It was simply an idiomatic expression of that time, that is what this person fails to understand.

I agree once again that Dhul-Qarnayn's identity is uncertain. The only thing scholars can do is attempt to compare the lives of different famous & righteous leaders of that time with that of Dhul-Qarnayn's. Even then it will be next to impossible the pin point the exact individual since stories & legends about various historical figures often get mixed with myths & legends.

Of course the Jews of Yatrib did ridicule the founder of Islam for plagiarisation from their scriptures and presenting his own goofed-up versions. This so enraged him that he commanded his followers to commit genocide of the Jews of Yatrib and later on whole of Arabia. This event sowed the seeds of anti-Semitism in Islam which is present even today.

This is again completely false. The Jewish tribes of Madinah were exiled & fought against because they violated their treaty with the Muslims. Like I said earlier, the Muslims closely monitored the Prophet, if they ever had any doubts regarding the authenticity of his claims then they would have left Islam.

Here is something from Wikipedia regarding the companion of the Prophet called "Abdullah ibn Salam". He was a Jewish convert to Islam. I know some people don't consider Wikipedia to be very authentic, but I find no reason to doubt this article at the moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_ibn_Salam

Abdullah ibn Salam was a Levite Jewish rabbi in Yathrib who was widely respected and honoured by the people of the city even by those who were not Jewish. For a fixed period each day, he would worship, teach and preach in the Synagogue.

Without any delay or hesitation, Abdullah went out to meet the Prophet. He saw crowds of people at his door. I moved about in the crowds until I reached close to him. The first words I heard him say were: 'O people! Spread peace...Share food...Pray during the night while people sleep... and you will enter Paradise in peace...' I looked at him closely. I scrutinized him and was convinced that his face was not that of an imposter. I went closer to him and made the declaration of faith that there is no god but God and that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. The Prophet turned to me and asked: 'What is your name?' 'Al-Husayn ibn Salam,' I replied. 'Instead, it is (now) Abdullah ibn Salam,' he said (giving me a new name). 'Yes,' I agreed. 'Abdullah ibn Salam (it shall be). By Him who has sent you with the Truth, I do not wish to have another name after this day.' I returned home and introduced Islam to my wife, my children and the rest of my household.

 

[Banu Umayyah]

Of course the Jews of Yatrib did ridicule the founder of Islam for plagiarisation from their scriptures and presenting his own goofed-up versions. This so enraged him that he commanded his followers to commit genocide of the Jews of Yatrib and later on whole of Arabia. This event sowed the seeds of anti-Semitism in Islam which is present even today.

Are you really that ignorant?
Do you really not know why the 3 Jewish tribes were killed?
They betrayed the Muslims at the most critical point in history, there was a siege on Madina by most pagan Arab tribes at the time, if they succeed in breaking through everyone would have been massacred and that would have been the end of Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Trench
Thus breaking an agreement known as Constitution of Medina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to mention that the ruling was not issued by the prophit him self, it was issued by Sa'd ibn Mua'dh.

 

[somebozo]

Of course the Jews of Yatrib did ridicule the founder of Islam for plagiarisation from their scriptures and presenting his own goofed-up versions. This so enraged him that he commanded his followers to commit genocide of the Jews of Yatrib and later on whole of Arabia. This event sowed the seeds of anti-Semitism in Islam which is present even today.

Medina as the name states itself was a city established by Jewish tribes. The first people to welcome the prophet and seal his authenticity were the Jews. The so called massacre of Jews in Yathrib was actually condemnation to death of 700 people of a Jewish group which committed treachery against the established constitution of warfare and was delivered in accordance of Jewish laws by a panel of experts including a Jewish convert.

Has the plan been successful, it would have lead to massacre of Medinite people at the hands of pagan Meccan Arabs - Jews and Muslims alike.

 

[kobiraaz]

Whats genocide? He who violated the Medina constitution was punished accordingly!! Judicial punishment!