Battle of Yarmouk and al-Qadisiyyah 636 AD

[Muhammed45]

he was Ameer (state's head) but mostly people don't take him as Caliph...

Indeed. Caliphs are respected

But Yazeed was a tyrant, in the history it is mentioned hat he was morally corrupt and the worse he didn't try to hide his corruption. I didn't insult him, it was the truth about his personality and the reason why Imam Hosein (AS) never accepted Yazeed as a head of state, let alone caliph, was Yazeed's publicized corruption. Never mind, briefly Yazeed did the same thing that ISIS is doing in Syria, beheading a 6 months old kid for being a Shia.

Shia's enemies are out of Sunni world, Sunnis are brothers of ours but when the case is Abu Sufyan's generation, you would see zero tolerance of Shias. Once the head of Nusra front openly said that we would finish what Yazeed had started. The current army of Saudis have a high rank named as Abu Sufyan's army. Considering Saudis a Sunni family is a bold mistake because they are betraying the legacy of Sunni caliphs by presenting Islamic lands to American crusaders.

Hz Abrahim father was mushrik, Hz Nuh son was mushrik... so it doesn't work like that...

You are right, father is not responsible for mistakes of his sons. It is totally a different case, anyway, you can read about Yazeed and his mother lol. Only a wrong son could order to behead prophet's grandson.


So much off-topic, Khalid bin walid, unlike his cousin was a brave and a wise commander. His army received a huge help from Shiraz when he decided to conquer the land of Southern Asia. Means he had Iranian soldiers too

 

[I.R.A]

he was Ameer (state's head) but mostly people don't take him as Caliph...

He was called Ameer Ul Momineen ....... people today might call him names (I regret I spent more than half of my life believing lies fed to me) but fact remains that most renowned personalities of Islam fought under command of Ameer Yazeed, followed him in prayers as an imam and also participated in hajj as Ameer Yazeed being the Ameer of those hajj. He was Caliph and the one who was elected after a grand democratic process first time ever in history of Muslims. If you read his sermons today you will realise that he wasn't only a Muhadis but also a Hafiz e Quran.

bcz we all want 'references' to support our claims...

And Tabri happens to be the reference ........ the guy who introduced fairy tales and produced things and events out of thin air is a credible reference / source?

I haven't seen any answer to my questions

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Muawiya himself is son of Hind (famous to the liver eater) who ate the liver of Hamzay (AS), our prophet's brave uncle. One of the few martyrdoms that brought tears on prophet's holy face.

Muawiya is son of Abu Sufiyan ....... the person whose house was declared place of Amaan when Muslims took back control of Makkah ...... but how does that prove / affect Muawiya's character and role?

For Hind is what she did and for Muawiya is what he did. Their actions are not for other to answer. Basic Islamic principle.

It's really painful you call Yazeed the Ameer the grandson of Hind, if you don't care about religion and just a history reader, so forget about my previous comment. Only Saudis are Takfiring Sunni Imams like Imam Shafei, Imam Hanbal, Maliki (RA). They are respected by both Shias and Sunnis, we follow many of their advices too. BTW, read some books other than Saudi ones please friend

I haven't once in my life read a Saudi book ........ I read Pakistani researchers and it may shock you we Pakistanis are way ahead of you rest of the Muslim (including Saudi and Iranians) when it comes to research on Islamic history, Islamic personalities and Quran. We did considerable work to separate truth from falsehood and fairy tales. I can understand why its painful for you ....... in Mullah's land where you are not allowed to think or breath differently, where you are raised without freedom of your own thoughts and freedom to read any source different than Mullah's source, it would be shocking and painful to hear a differing view, such as mine.

And I don't believe that I cannot question any book other than Quran, Quran is the only divine guidance all of the rest are works of humans ....... so let me shock you more

• I don't believe in any Mahdi to come and solve our problems
• I don't believe in coming back of Essa Peace be upon him
• I don't believe in Sunni, I don't believe in Shia, I don't believe in any other sect
• I believe that books of traditions (Ahadeeth) need revisiting in light of Quran and anything that is repugnant, in contradiction with Quran and is clearly made up stuff to reflect bad on respected personalities of Islam should be thrown out of the window.
• I don't see any difference between Saba and Tabri ..... one divided Muslims with his sword the other with his pen

And I still call myself Muslim

 

[Muhammed45]

He was called Ameer Ul Momineen ....... people today might call him names (I regret I spent more than half of my life believing lies fed to me) but fact remains that most renowned personalities of Islam fought under command of Ameer Yazeed, followed him in prayers as an imam and also participated in hajj as Ameer Yazeed being the Ameer of those hajj. He was Caliph and the one who was elected after a grand democratic process first time ever in history of Muslims. If you read his sermons today you will realise that he wasn't only a Muhadis but also a Hafiz e Quran.



And Tabri happens to be the reference ........ the guy who introduced fairy tales and produced things and events out of thin air is a credible reference / source?

I haven't seen any answer to my questions

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Muawiya is son of Abu Sufiyan ....... the person whose house was declared place of Amaan when Muslims took back control of Makkah ...... but how does that prove / affect Muawiya's character and role?

For Hind is what she did and for Muawiya is what he did. Their actions are not for other to answer. Basic Islamic principle.




I haven't once in my life read a Saudi book ........ I read Pakistani researchers and it may shock you we Pakistanis are way ahead of you rest of the Muslim (including Saudi and Iranians) when it comes to research on Islamic history, Islamic personalities and Quran. We did considerable work to separate truth from falsehood and fairy tales. I can understand why its painful for you ....... in Mullah's land where you are not allowed to think or breath differently, where you are raised without freedom of your own thoughts and freedom to read any source different than Mullah's source, it would be shocking and painful to hear a differing view, such as mine.

And I don't believe that I cannot question any book other than Quran, Quran is the only divine guidance all of the rest are works of humans ....... so let me shock you more

• I don't believe in any Mahdi to come and solve our problems
• I don't believe in coming back of Essa Peace be upon him
• I don't believe in Sunni, I don't believe in Shia, I don't believe in any other sect
• I believe that books of traditions (Ahadeeth) need revisiting in light of Quran and anything that is repugnant, in contradiction with Quran and is clearly made up stuff to reflect bad on respected personalities of Islam should be thrown out of the window.
• I don't see any difference between Saba and Tabri ..... one divided Muslims with his sword the other with his pen

And I still call myself Muslim

As for revisiting of Ahadith, you were right, they should not be in hostility with Quran. Not every body can revisit hadith, refute or approve them, you need to be qualified if you were eligible to do it or not. And you with that straight face, completely refuted Sunni books and say that Muawiya/Yazeed two sons of Hind the liver eater were your favorite ones. Believe me this proves you know nothing, not even from Quran, Quran has clearly said that those folks who surrendered in Mecca never believed in Allah by their heart, they accepted it because they were defeated. You lack the simplest facts about Islamic principles, you have believed what you have heard from Takfiri, racist and biased Saudi/wahabi sheiks. And i'm not wondering, why you are refuting all of Sunni books, you call a corrupt person your Ameer, when you see the truth in Sunni books about him, you start saying, oh everyone of Sunni books are lying about Ameer lol.
This is one of the poems of your Ameer, read it if you know Arabic :
دع المساجد للعبّاد تسکنها وأجلس علی دکة الخمار و اسقینا
ان الذی شربا فی سکره طربا و للمصلّین لادینا ولادنیا
Yazeed was drunk even when he was praying. It's mentioned in different books, most of them are in Sunni books and indeed all of Sunni and Shia books are lying about your Ameer but Saudi Takfiris are telling the truth.

Have fun bud, please read 1 book other than Takfiri written ones.

 

[I.R.A]

And you with that straight face, completely refuted Sunni books and say that Muawiya/Yazeed two sons of Hind the liver eater were your favorite ones.

How can any book that calls itself Sunni or Shia can be Islamic? Have you ever wondered?

Muawiya and Yazeed are not the only favorites ........ I have huge respect for each and every companion of Messenger Peace be upon him, but that respect will never translate into worshiping them.

To shock you more I believe there didn't exist a person with a ridiculous name like Muawiyia ..... his name either got twisted by fancy fairy tale writing historians or he didn't exist at all.

And to shock you further more ........ I don't believe in any Qiblah other than Khana E Kaba. I also believe there are only two holy cities Makkah and Madina only ..... outside these cities no place, no building is holy like we treat them to be.

Believe me this proves you know nothing, not even from Quran, Quran has clearly said that those folks who surrendered in Mecca never believed in Allah by their heart, they accepted it because they were defeated.

Don't playing twisting words of Quran with me, the verse you are referring to is for Bedouin, the people who lived away from civilization and not for people who lived in a city like Makkah.

You lack the simplest facts about Islamic principles, you have believed what you have heard from Takfiri, racist and biased Saudi/wahabi sheiks.

You are foaming at the mouth again .......... your best argument is raising alarms and slogans and declaring me wahabi?

And i'm not wondering, why you are refuting all of Sunni books, you call a corrupt person your Ameer, when you see the truth in Sunni books about him, you start saying, oh everyone of Sunni books are lying about Ameer lol.

Corrupt person ....... corrupt person ....... what's your proof? Some Mullah sermon or his fairy tales? Did you see the person committing the corruption? Do you even know that ladies of Hashmites (close relatives of Imam Hussain) were in Ameer Yazeed's nikkah, do you even know that nephew of Ameer Yazeed was with Hussain when he started travelling to Koofa?

All I see is you getting insecure inch by inch ....... I told you we Pakistani Muslims are way ahead of all you rest of the bunch ..... when it comes to research on Islam and Quran.

This is one of the poems of your Ameer, read it if you know Arabic :
دع المساجد للعبّاد تسکنها وأجلس علی دکة الخمار و اسقینا
ان الذی شربا فی سکره طربا و للمصلّین لادینا ولادنیا
Yazeed was drunk even when he was praying. It's mentioned in different books, most of them are in Sunni books and indeed all of Sunni and Shia books are lying about your Ameer but Saudi Takfiris are telling the truth.

Have fun bud, please read 1 book other than Takfiri written ones.

I am free .......... but you won't understand that my Persian friend.

 

[Muhammed45]

How can any book that calls itself Sunni or Shia can be Islamic? Have you ever wondered?

Muawiya and Yazeed are not the only favorites ........ I have huge respect for each and every companion of Messenger Peace be upon him, but that respect will never translate into worshiping them.

To shock you more I believe there didn't exist a person with a ridiculous name like Muawiyia ..... his name either got twisted by fancy fairy tale writing historians or he didn't exist at all.

And to shock you further more ........ I don't believe in any Qiblah other than Khana E Kaba. I also believe there are only two holy cities Makkah and Madina only ..... outside these cities no place, no building is holy like we treat them to be.



Don't playing twisting words of Quran with me, the verse you are referring to is for Bedouin, the people who lived away from civilization and not for people who lived in a city like Makkah.



You are foaming at the mouth again .......... your best argument is raising alarms and slogans and declaring me wahabi?



Corrupt person ....... corrupt person ....... what's your proof? Some Mullah sermon or his fairy tales? Did you see the person committing the corruption? Do you even know that ladies of Hashmites (close relatives of Imam Hussain) were in Ameer Yazeed's nikkah, do you even know that nephew of Ameer Yazeed was with Hussain when he started travelling to Koofa?

All I see is you getting insecure inch by inch ....... I told you we Pakistani Muslims are way ahead of all you rest of the bunch ..... when it comes to research on Islam and Quran.




I am free .......... but you won't understand that my Persian friend.

No Hashemite woman was in Nikkah of Yazeed, the one you are talking about was Imam's Kaniz, who was freed by himself. Yazeed took her, i don't deny but she wasn't a Hashemite woman.

BTW, you have your own sources, we can never reach a common ground as it seems.

Regards

 

[Mamluk]

"Ameer" yazid, lol. This thread is teeming with Ahl al-Bayt haters.

 

[I.R.A]

"Ameer" yazid, lol. This thread is teeming with Ahl al-Bayt haters.

Mind your ignorance please, I don't normally behave well when false accusations are thrown at me .......... the little cuckoo brain of yours is stuck in thinking that hating Yazeed is loving Hussain, or respecting Yazeed is hating Hussain and his family. You cannot be any more further from the reality ..... Do I need to identify the fault any further?

Hating one is not loving the other, neither loving one is hating the other ....... someone can respect both and love both, but that would be difficult for you to understand.

 

[Ocean]

He was called Ameer Ul Momineen ....... people today might call him names (I regret I spent more than half of my life believing lies fed to me) but fact remains that most renowned personalities of Islam fought under command of Ameer Yazeed, followed him in prayers as an imam and also participated in hajj as Ameer Yazeed being the Ameer of those hajj. He was Caliph and the one who was elected after a grand democratic process first time ever in history of Muslims. If you read his sermons today you will realise that he wasn't only a Muhadis but also a Hafiz e Quran.



And Tabri happens to be the reference ........ the guy who introduced fairy tales and produced things and events out of thin air is a credible reference / source?

I haven't seen any answer to my questions

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Muawiya is son of Abu Sufiyan ....... the person whose house was declared place of Amaan when Muslims took back control of Makkah ...... but how does that prove / affect Muawiya's character and role?

For Hind is what she did and for Muawiya is what he did. Their actions are not for other to answer. Basic Islamic principle.




I haven't once in my life read a Saudi book ........ I read Pakistani researchers and it may shock you we Pakistanis are way ahead of you rest of the Muslim (including Saudi and Iranians) when it comes to research on Islamic history, Islamic personalities and Quran. We did considerable work to separate truth from falsehood and fairy tales. I can understand why its painful for you ....... in Mullah's land where you are not allowed to think or breath differently, where you are raised without freedom of your own thoughts and freedom to read any source different than Mullah's source, it would be shocking and painful to hear a differing view, such as mine.

And I don't believe that I cannot question any book other than Quran, Quran is the only divine guidance all of the rest are works of humans ....... so let me shock you more

• I don't believe in any Mahdi to come and solve our problems
• I don't believe in coming back of Essa Peace be upon him
• I don't believe in Sunni, I don't believe in Shia, I don't believe in any other sect
• I believe that books of traditions (Ahadeeth) need revisiting in light of Quran and anything that is repugnant, in contradiction with Quran and is clearly made up stuff to reflect bad on respected personalities of Islam should be thrown out of the window.
• I don't see any difference between Saba and Tabri ..... one divided Muslims with his sword the other with his pen

And I still call myself Muslim

I too have read pakistani books on yazeed history,never came across his democratic election thing. Which writers book you would recommend?

And how hazrat hussains beheading was justified by Yazeed? Is that a lie? Also why koofa people used to cry about yazeeds mazalim?

Muawiya himself is son of Hind (famous to the liver eater) who ate the liver of Hamzay (AS), our prophet's brave uncle. One of the few martyrdoms that brought tears on prophet's holy face.

Firstly hind was forgiven by the prophet. And even if we forget about it , i dont know whats the reason behind you mentioing Muawayia as son of "liver eater" as if that muawiyya was responsible for the wrong act of his mother? Even hazrat Ibrahim prophets father was a mushrik , did that mean that affected the status of Hazrat Ibrahim?

I mean ur whole attempt to disregard muawaviyya cause he was son of Hind is nothing but a melodramatic dishonest attempt. Does Quran not say noone is going to carry the bruden of others' sins.

 

[Mamluk]

Hating one is not loving the other, neither loving one is hating the other ....... someone can respect both and love both, but that would be difficult for you to understand.

Someone who kills your dad.. loving your dad is not hating him and vice versa, right? Right? Great logic man.

 

[I.R.A]

I too have read pakistani books on yazeed history,never came across his democratic election thing. Which writers book you would recommend?

List of all the banned research work

If you have the heart and good grip on reading and understanding Urdu try reading this (link) and this (link) do read from start. And interestingly it was the Deo Bandi people who got this book banned even when the court decided in favor of the author of the book.

And personally I read it for equipping myself with ... what if ... Karbala really happened (the popular belief). Otherwise I believe Hazrat Hussain was governor of Iraq when he was assassinated and all these infighting stories are cooked up. Because all those personalities were firm believers and adherents of Quran "You are each others brothers" ..... they won't commit an act that would lead to exiting unity, infighting and division of Muslims. No way.

And how hazrat hussains beheading was justified by Yazeed? Is that a lie? Also why koofa people used to cry about yazeeds mazalim?

If this all really happened it were Sabai (the khawarij same people who assassinated Hazrat Usman) who mislead Hazrat Hussain into believing that Yazeed is committing cruelties and is no more suitable for Caliphate ...... Yazeed had love and respect for both Hassan and Hussain, the State showed considerable restraint because of Hussain, otherwise if they wished to murder him ... why would a drinking, non religious Yazeed (as they wish us to believe) wait for Hussain to reach Karbala and then commit the massacre? but in the end when Hazrat Hussain revisited his decision in light of the latest information and realities it was too late for brothers of Aqeel (they wanted to avenge death of Aqeel). Later Zainulabideen (Ibne Hussain) supported Yazeed's run state to suppress the rebellion of Ibne Zubair. I have mentioned that Hashmite women were married in Umayyad's ..... why would those women opt to live with people who deliberately killed Hazrat Hussain and disrespected his family?

Someone who kills your dad.. loving your dad is not hating him and vice versa, right? Right? Great logic man.

Well ....... I have no time for little cowards who drag each others family into their petty ignorant debates.

Pay my respect to your dad.

 

[Ocean]

List of all the banned research work

If you have the heart and good grip on reading and understanding Urdu try reading this (link) and this (link) do read from start. And interestingly it was the Deo Bandi people who got this book banned even when the court decided in favor of the author of the book.

And personally I read it for equipping myself with ... what if ... Karbala really happened (the popular belief). Otherwise I believe Hazrat Hussain was governor of Iraq when he was assassinated and all these infighting stories are cooked up. Because all those personalities were firm believers and adherents of Quran "You are each others brothers" ..... they won't commit an act that would lead to exiting unity, infighting and division of Muslims. No way.



If this all really happened it were Sabai (the khawarij same people who assassinated Hazrat Usman) who mislead Hazrat Hussain into believing that Yazeed is committing cruelties and is no more suitable for Caliphate ...... Yazeed had love and respect for both Hassan and Hussain, the State showed considerable restraint because of Hussain, otherwise if they wished to murder him ... why would a drinking, non religious Yazeed (as they wish us to believe) wait for Hussain to reach Karbala and then commit the massacre? but in the end when Hazrat Hussain revisited his decision in light of the latest information and realities it was too late for brothers of Aqeel (they wanted to avenge death of Aqeel). Later Zainulabideen (Ibne Hussain) supported Yazeed's run state to suppress the rebellion of Ibne Zubair. I have mentioned that Hashmite women were married in Umayyad's ..... why would those women opt to live with people who deliberately killed Hazrat Hussain and disrespected his family?




Well ....... I have no time for little cowards who drag each others family into their petty ignorant debates.

Pay my respect to your dad.

hasmite and umayyad marriages happened cause they were relatives by blood and hashmites werent marrying into yazeed family , i mean wait i have a very bad migraine at the moment. I will reply later.


Also when hazrat hussain went to fight yazeed he must have spoken to him or communicated with him via letter. Its not possible for a kan of hazrat hussains wisdom to not try and resolve amtters visa talks.
Also there was a hadees of prophet pbuh where he told hazrat umm e salma that the day hazrat hussian will die the color of a soil sample possessed by prophet will turn red.

 

[I.R.A]

hasmite and umayyad marriages happened cause they were relatives by blood and hashmites werent marrying into yazeed family , i mean wait i have a very bad migraine at the moment. I will reply later.


Also when hazrat hussain went to fight yazeed he must have spoken to him or communicated with him via letter. Its not possible for a kan of hazrat hussains wisdom to not try and resolve amtters visa talks.

You can give a critical reading to the book I referred and make your own opinion. The book is not personal opinion of the author but a collection of different history traditions, narratives, relations and events. He has even challenged the date of the Karbala event.

Also there was a hadees of prophet pbuh where he told hazrat umm e salma that the day hazrat hussian will die the color of a soil sample possessed by prophet will turn red.

I won't comment on this. There is also a Hadeeth that says "whosoever would participate in invasion of Qastantunia (Constantinople) is a Jannati" ...... and now it so happens that Ameer Yazeed was leading that army and Hazrat Hussain fought under Yazeed's command in that war.

 

[El Sidd]

@The Eagle @Jungibaaz @waz @Slav Defence @Horus

Religious discussions are not allowed. Please close the thread.

 

[The Eagle]

Rather than discussing the battle tactics, unfortunately and as usual, less intellect resorts to throw tantrums while enforcing one side idea over other yet forgetting that Religious Discussion/Debate is not allowed. Thread closed.

Regards,