Battle of Bach Dang River (938) | Vietnam-China Sea Battle

[skydrill_2]

It is often argued that the Chinese smart but in reality they are very stupid. Look, the Chinese were caught in the same trap of Vietnamese 2 times (In 938 and 981) and one time with their boss Mongolians (Yuan Dynasty, in 1288)...

no1 said chinese are smart......they are never smart,they are just very hard working.......

 

[Viet]

At least you give China credits for two wins other than the two skirmishes, perhaps your experiences outside Vietnam give you some real knowledge on the matter and a sense of fairness, however small. You also have a good habit on reading others opinions carefully too. Unlike some of your compatriots at home, whose only knowledge are what the party feeds them on top of their own ingrained warmongering natures, just glanced over my post and gave me an answer opposite the ones I seek. ( see two posts below yours)

First thank you for the flower. Though I do not understand your point with "however small". What do you mean?
And it´s a mistake to think my countrymen are government puppets, they are just patriots. We are angry because of your aggressive actions in the South China Sea.

 

[SinoChallenger]

They are so inferior they need to go back 1200 years to find something to be proud of! China is proud of 1988, when we turned little Viets into fish food

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

For a small country being fxxked back and forth for thousands of years by strong powers, vn still like to boast its so-called victories.

We dont "boast", we just look at the history of protecting our country. You see, Vietnam lies next to a bad neighbor guy who has expansionist ideology, we were constantly having to fight to resist its invasions.

If you have been so powerful, why the heck you are the one being fxxked all the time???

This you should ask invaders that why many times they were defeated by the Vietnamese every time they invaded Vietnam, but then they paid no attention to the lessons they had received previously, they still continue to nurture the intention to invade VN (???)

Look at your history, your books, your literature, your architecture, medicine and etc, just like korea, all learn and import from China.

The latest french domination got your change your written letter. However, without knowing Chinese, you could not even study your old literature. Look at those temples, still all with Chinese all written there.

Still think so great of yourself???

This is the legacy of the invasions of China in Vietnam. Chinese invaded VN in the long time, with the intention of Han had wanted to assimilate VN, that led to the losses of writing systems, language, own identities of cultural of the Vietnamese.
In the past, the Han were deliberately burned many historical books of the Vietnamese when they invaded VN.
The same thing now we can see that is happening in Tibet and Xinjiang....

Still enjoy your so-called victory over U.S.??? Sure, U.S. gave up south vn in the end. However, who is the ultimate loser??? Who had millions of death and even today there are those children deformed by those U.S. bombs???

Well, even being fxxked so hard by U.S., vn nowadays begs U.S. to come back. Well, good for you.

Yes, northern Vietnam and half of southern Vietnam has succeeded in forcing Americans to pull out Vietnam. However, like any other real war, war is damage to both sides. Nobody completely win a real war but did not get any loss.
Today, Vietnam sees the US as a big friend and the two countries work together on common interests. You see, if we keep forever hatred in the hearts after war, most countries around the world will see others as enemies.
Time changes, things change as well. Today the U.S. does not occupy any territory of Vietnam, the U.S does not threat to invade Vietnam ... why we should continue hatred to them?

At the same time, if you hate China that much, why your vn leaders keep begging China for all types of aids, money, electricity, investment and etc???

No begging or so-called China's aid to Vietnam. All the cooperation between the two countries are to benefit both sides, known as a win-win cooperation.
You should also remember that China's investment into Vietnam that is not in the top 10, and each year China gets benefit more than 10 billion USD from trade surplus with Vietnam....

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

They are so inferior they need to go back 1200 years to find something to be proud of! China is proud of 1988, when we turned little Viets into fish food

China is proud of 1988 when they can kill unarmed military engineers.
Vietnam is proud of 1979 when Vietnamese militia can kill a lot of Chinese well-trained PLA soldiers

 

[Fanling Monk]

First thank you for the flower. Though I do not understand your point with "however small". What do you mean?
And it´s a mistake to think my countrymen are government puppets, they are just patriots. We are angry because of your aggressive actions in the South China Sea.

My point is China and Vietnam have been neighbors, friends and adversaries for millenniums, and unarguably, going by their history the latter is the junior partner of the two. Wars, large and small, must have occurred quite a number of times. Without the strenuous search (I'm lazy) for neutral sources one can almost surmise it's unthinkable China didn't win a single war against Vietnam as most of your compatriots insinuate. If it was the case the capitol of Vietnam would be in Beijing instead of Hanoi, wouldn't you say?

My question then are they all guilty of the common trait of humanity, mainly glorify successes and neglect failure, or simply they don't know if China ever win a single war against Vietnam or not because your government does not mention any.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Sadly, your boss, Uncle Sam could not also save your face, he himself was also trapped in a other trap of Vietnam although we had more difficult...

Up until know you Vietnameses still live in lunatic dream and sing the glory of victory, but you have never question what is the behind scene of this geopolitical calculation...sure you vietnmeses are only smart of been used and dumped into trash can if you're serving no purpose for superpowers.

Thank to using Vietnam as bargain Chip with U.S that allow Chinese to break isolation and become what we're today when Nixxon secretly stroke a deal with China...we're just to happen at that time to have Vietname as geopolitcal option...we certain don't want to lose our tributary state for future encounters

 

[gambit]

Still enjoy your so-called victory over U.S.??? Sure, U.S. gave up south vn in the end. However, who is the ultimate loser??? Who had millions of death and even today there are those children deformed by those U.S. bombs???

Well, even being fxxked so hard by U.S., vn nowadays begs U.S. to come back. Well, good for you.

If that is how you want to reason it, then why should VN be friendly to China? After all, China have had a much more colorful history with VN than the US did.

 

[danger007]

They are so inferior they need to go back 1200 years to find something to be proud of! China is proud of 1988, when we turned little Viets into fish food

that's cruel post... making fun of dead peoples very bad.... and you are proud of it???? you should be ashamed of it... chi chetta nakodaka...

 

[gambit]

that's cruel post... making fun of dead peoples very bad.... and you are proud of it???? you should be ashamed of it... chi chetta nakodaka...

That is to be expected from the Chinese boys here. It is one way, and for them the best and only way, to compensate for the fact that all of them are conscript rejects and they are participating in a military oriented discussion forum.

 

[danger007]

That is to be expected from the Chinese boys here. It is one way, and for them the best and only way, to compensate for the fact that all of them are conscript rejects and they are participating in a military oriented discussion forum.

that post is not even aggressive but reflecting his cruel mentality.....neva seen such weird mentality...

 

[gambit]

that post is not even aggressive but reflecting his cruel mentality.....neva seen such weird mentality...

It is reflective of at least half of the Chinese members here.

 

[ViXuyen]

You guys keep mention the Battle of Bach Dang River (938) and the biggest selling point is “killed over 100,000 Chinese”. The number actually puzzled me a lot: which country could support such a large NAVY (over 100k) in the 10th century? I spent (waste) some time reading different online articles and here is your reality check:

1. I know many of you regard it as Vietnam’s independence war and I have to admit that it is a clear victory for the Vietnamese.

2. You called it a war between China and Vietnam. But the more accurate version is that it is a conflict between Southern Han (a regional kingdom) and a rebellion force led by Ngo Quyen (Vietnamese). So what is Southern Han? In order to answer this question, we need to learn the history of China in the 10th century.
The 10th century in China is called the “Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period”. During this period, five dynasties quickly succeeded one another in the north, and more than 12 independent states were established, mainly in the south. However, only ten are traditionally listed, hence the era's name. It is considered by many historians as the most chaotic era in Chinese history. Southern Han is one of the 10 Kingdoms located along China’s southern coast (the blue region in the map below). File:Five Dynasties Ten Kingdoms 923 CE.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3. Since Southern Han is just a small country, how could it support a large fleet? I tried to find the size of Southern Han’s army and did not get any results. A relative number is Southern Han’s total population, less than one million (source: »ÄÌÆ¿ÉЦµÄÄϺºÕþȨ£¨15£©_ÂÒÊÀ·éÑÌ_½ªÀDzò¾¡_ÎÄ»¯¶ÁÊéƵµÀ_ÐÂÀËÍø. I am sorry I cannot find an English version. The story is about eunuchs in Southern Han and the total number of eunuchs in Southern Han is around 20k, more than 2% of the total population). If Vietnamese’s claim of casualty (over 100k) is accurate, Southern Han’s king must send more than 10% of his citizens to this battle. It is odd.

4. So what is the actual casualty of the 938 battle? It is difficult to find out since the battle happened more than 1000 years ago and it is a NAVY battle (how did you count the bodies in water). I looked at the wiki link you provided previously (Battle of Bach Dang River (938) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). The English version says that the Viet man’s force is 150K plus (citation needed) and the Chinese’s force is 100K plus (citation needed). The article did not mention the casualties. You Vietnamese must assume that none of the Chinese warriors survived that battle in order to get the “over 100k” number. Then I checked the Japanese version and the Chinese version: the Chinese force was around 10k and lost about 5k in the battle. I am not saying that 5k is a better estimate. But it is clear that the Vietnamese exaggerate the outcome of this battle. I am not sure if you noticed: the cartoon says Chinese sent 20k troops to invade Vietnam. Again, how did Chinese loss more than what they sent to the battle?

Even your version of the most famous battle in your history is not totally accurate, how could you convince us to believe the other “historical evidences” you provide?

A Side Note: wiki is not your history book. If you insist on learning your history from wiki, you will become the Laughing-stock of others.

The battle of Bach Dang river in 938 definitely is not the most famous battle for our side; it is just one of the famous battles. We have fought many big battles against you guys, the Mongols, Siam, Champa, the French, American,...and even among Vietnamese ourselves so there will never be the most famous battle in Viet Nam.

You can't blame us for writing such and such number about your troop strength. You guys have had a habit of inflating your own troop number as a tactic to scare off your enemies (even wars between Chinese). I believe your troop strength at the battle of Bach Dang in 938 was a direct result of your side spreading such news; at that time we could only take the number as it is.

Since we're living in the 21st century now and having the abilities to cross check each other's references, we can come up with a better conclusion regarding such and such events or numbers. I'm quite objective in this issue and my personal belief is that the Chinese troops in this battle were about 20K at most.

 

[Nan Yang]

Just want to share an old ancient proverb.

Do not dwell in past glories.


We spend entirely too much time thinking about the “what ifs” of life. What if I had done this or that, I wonder how different my life might be. Or, are you living your life in the “glory days” reminiscing back to a better time in your life.


This advise is for everybody.

 

[dunhill]

Just want to share an old ancient proverb.

Do not dwell in past glories.


We spend entirely too much time thinking about the “what ifs” of life. What if I had done this or that, I wonder how different my life might be. Or, are you living your life in the “glory days” reminiscing back to a better time in your life.


This advise is for everybody.

With Chinese and only China made them feels happy for living in the past that would made them strong, and trying to wiped out whatever China did suffers for whatever its politician mistaken. That's why !!!