Battle of Asal Uttar - 56 years ago

[Tomcats]

I got mine from the old book banks elin the street behind the Bread n Butter, Saddar, Rawalpindi. Was very lucky Indeed.
I think general Mahmud has just compiled the works of staff course research groups set up each year for more than a decade(1976-1985).

I hope i can find one in Karachi, seems to be elusive online.

Let's read your side of the story then?

This isn't about 'your side' it's about factual history which clearly he seems to ignore in favor of rhetoric. My recommendation is that if you want to learn history don't use sketchy threads, use proper accredited historical books and other resources.
'Rommel and Monty references, Fourth Panipat, Shermans can only hit a Patton's side'. Sounds more like a story than historical piece.
The pictures of the Patton tank he uses is from a book from Osprey publishers which also includes armor statistics and the Shermans could reliably penetrate the tank frontally from the normal distances looking at the listed values. He tries to downplay the Indian position while constantly trying to paint the Pakistan armored force as some huge juggernaut that can do anything. Don't get me wrong the Indian defense was gallant but this guy is making it sound like something else...

 

[SIPRA]

Lahore is 20kms away from the border, even in peace time India is sitting on the "outskirts of Lahore." Back then there was no border fencing and people crossed at will similar to Afghanistan. The BRB canal, where India advanced till, was considered the "border". If India was in such good shape it would've retained some territory or gained some concessions from Pakistan. However, India's gains were inconsequential to Pakistan.

All, they gained, was the undefended area lying between border and BRB Canal, during the 5/6 September night. When they were confronted, at BRB Canal, on the morning of of 6 September, all their advance was totally stalled & halted and their Divisional Commander Major General Niranjan Prasad (later sacked on account of cowardice and incompetence) was hiding in the surrounding sugarcane fields, with his pants wet and down.

 

[Raja Porus]

seems to be elusive online.

For obvious reasons army didn't like the book to WIDELY available and limited its publishing. Kept most of them to itself, in its libraries.
I also got mine accidentally, was very lucky Indeed.

 

[Raja Porus]

India was threateningly close to capture Big City like Lahore and sat for 8 days on your territory starting right from the outskirts of Lahore and other cities till the peace was declared in Tashkent....

Actually it was what our whole overall defensive plan was based on. To have screening forces on the eastern bank of BRB to harass enemy and inflict as much attrition as possible, thus giving time to other PA forces in the sector to put up a defence on the home side of the canal. So we achieved our objectives in this sector i.e prevent a breakout of India by keeping them at the Indian side of canal and neutralise any bridgehead by counter attacks. Infact this particular sector was the one in which all echelons of command, form GOC to Bde commanders and regt COs performed relatively well on the Pakistani side. Thus we traded space for time which is completely acceptable in military strategy and especially when we see the larger picture. There was no solid obstacle on which Pakistan could've based its defences except for BRB.

 

[Hephaestus]

I hope i can find one in Karachi, seems to be elusive online.


This isn't about 'your side' it's about factual history which clearly he seems to ignore in favor of rhetoric. My recommendation is that if you want to learn history don't use sketchy threads, use proper accredited historical books and other resources.
'Rommel and Monty references, Fourth Panipat, Shermans can only hit a Patton's side'. Sounds more like a story than historical piece.
The pictures of the Patton tank he uses is from a book from Osprey publishers which also includes armor statistics and the Shermans could reliably penetrate the tank frontally from the normal distances looking at the listed values. He tries to downplay the Indian position while constantly trying to paint the Pakistan armored force as some huge juggernaut that can do anything. Don't get me wrong the Indian defense was gallant but this guy is making it sound like something else...

Fair point. I have read extensively on '65. Any suggestions or must-reads that I might have missed?

 

[Hephaestus]

That would be the case had you not just spewed so much filth and crap (aka your media) over the past 70+ years regarding pakistan and india. Its so bad that when researching about the pak indo wars, historians often wrote that there isnt mucb point to get into this topic as its so murky due to the sheer amount of indian propaganda. Well done poluting it.

You guys have been celebrating 65 as a win and you talk about filth & crap. Wow!

Pakistan started '65 & the objective of Operation Grand Slam wasn't met. 'nuff said.

I know this line sounds a little cliched but will write it anyway.
"Chale the Kashmir lene. Bachana (Defence day) pad gaya Lahore."

 

[Tornado23]

You guys have been celebrating 65 as a win and you talk about filth & crap. Wow!

Pakistan started '65 & the objective of Operation Grand Slam wasn't met. 'nuff said.

I know this line sounds a little cliched but will write it anyway.
"Chale the Kashmir lene. Bachana (Defence day) pad gaya Lahore."

Thats the point of view of india

From a neutral pov it looks like this:

India pushed into rann of kutch

Pakistan pushed into kashmir via op Gibraltar and then grand slam

India pushed into lahore, sialkot and sindh. All of which failed.

Perhaps you should read lt gen harbaksh singh....

Wanted lahore. Ended up defending khem karan lul

 

[Raja Porus]

Fair point. I have read extensively on '65. Any suggestions or must-reads that I might have missed?

History of Indo-Pak war of 1965 by LTG Mahmud Ahmed.

 

[Raja Porus]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1443392881926938625