Bars, Nightclubs, Lottery, Casinos, HorseRacing - Why can't we have those things?

[GumNaam]

Many Pakistanis drink, dance and gamble often at underground parties. Why can't we have bars, nightclubs, lotteries, sportsbetting and casinos and tax the shit out of them for the national exchequer?

Why do we have this facade where everyone is wonderfully Muslim? In Defence, private parties are protected by the Police to keep unwelcome public out.

Why should pious and often hypocritical Muslims impose their pseudo-morality on others?

Pakistan used to have bars, ballrooms and was a fun place to be at one time.

In the west, lottery revenue is used to provide for students and elderly.

Turkey has all of these things. Why can't Pakistan have anything fun?

Hmm...why can't we have..."FUN". Let's talk about that...there is a much MUCH bigger question to be asked here and I am NOT gonna take the mullah approach that Allah forbid it so no you can't have that. Indeed Allah DID forbid it but my approach is a bit different...Allah forbid it for a very VERY good reason. Do we WANT to have a society where people go to nightclubs and wake up the next morning next to folks they don't recognize? I don't think so. Do we want to have a society where the wife or husband are constantly looking at their spouse with suspicion about the person they may have danced with at some company ballroom party? I don't think so. Do we want to have a society were the death count of accidents due to drunk driving is sky high? I don't think so. So the issue is NOT the "pious and often hypocritical Muslims" imposing anything...the issue is that do we REALLY want to have a society that is suffering from the nearly incurable diseases that the western world is riddled with? And BULEEEVE ME, they indeed ARE incurable, I live in the west as do you...you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. heck, you probably even know of a woman who got raped by someone at a nightclub but is far too drunk to remember who he was. You may even know of a few families who lost loved ones due to a drunk driver running them over...

the solution is to instill HATRED and DISGUST for this culture by presenting logical, understandable evidences that would CONVINCE the masses that if Allah forbad these FOR A VERY GOOD REASON!

 

[M.Bison]

Internet tough guy.

Nice one, stupid. Naturally, your education would lead to name-calling.

 

[Lincoln]

Hmm...why can't we have..."FUN". Let's talk about that...there is a much MUCH bigger question to be asked here and I am NOT gonna take the mullah approach that Allah forbid it so no you can't have that. Indeed Allah DID forbid it but my approach is a bit different...Allah forbid it for a very VERY good reason. Do we WANT to have a society where people go to nightclubs and wake up the next morning next to folks they don't recognize? I don't think so. Do we want to have a society where the wife or husband are constantly looking at their spouse with suspicion about the person they may have danced with at some company ballroom party? I don't think so. Do we want to have a society were the death count of accidents due to drunk driving is sky high? I don't think so. So the issue is NOT the "pious and often hypocritical Muslims" imposing anything...the issue is that do we REALLY want to have a society that is suffering from the nearly incurable diseases that the western world is riddled with? And BULEEEVE ME, they indeed ARE incurable, I live in the west as do you...you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. heck, you probably even know of a woman who got raped by someone at a nightclub but is far too drunk to remember who he was. You may even know of a few families who lost loved ones due to a drunk driver running them over...

the solution is to instill HATRED and DISGUST for this culture by presenting logical, understandable evidences that would CONVINCE the masses that if Allah forbad these FOR A VERY GOOD REASON!

We have none of that freedom, yet we are riddled with the same issues.

And in regards to morality. Man, who are we to dictate if someone wants to go have a night.

Reality is that the Pakistan of 60s was much more better, and there were no such restrictions back then.

Turkey is also much better and it has no such restrictions.

Yet they had not as many rape incidents, or drunk driving accidents.

I mean you tell me; look at Italy or the European countries with a more conservative culture.


Perhaps, the correlation is between culture and these activities, rather than restrictions and activities.

Nice one, stupid. Naturally, your education would lead to name-calling.

Whenever I make a post, I tell myself that if I would be able to express this to friends or to a group of people in life. If you follow that rule of thumb, you can avoid making cringe posts too.

 

[SkyWolf]

Dear moderators. I am being ruthlessly bullied for raising interesting topics and discussions. i ask for your mercy.

 

[GumNaam]

We have none of that freedom, yet we are riddled with the same issues.

And in regards to morality. Man, who are we to dictate if someone wants to go have a night.

Reality is that the Pakistan of 60s was much more better, and there were no such restrictions back then.

Turkey is also much better and it has no such restrictions.

Yet they had not as many rape incidents, or drunk driving accidents.

I mean you tell me; look at Italy or the European countries with a more conservative culture.


Perhaps, the correlation is between culture and these activities, rather than restrictions and activities.

we are NO one to dictate...but Allah IS. He does have the right to distinguish the right from the wrong. But this is something that has to be logically instilled in our people through proper education and reasoning. Has that EVER been done? NO! Our society left it to the mullahs most of whom are lakeer kay fakeer who wouldn't be able to logically convince someone why is the son BRIGHT?! Simply hammering it in that "its haram cuz Allah says its haram" is NOT enough, not even close. It needs to be shown properly WHY is it haram. In other words, yar jannat aur jahannam ka faysla to maut kay baad ho ga...yeh ehkamaat hamari ZINDAGI ko jannat bana nay kay liyay bhay jay gae hain...it needs to be a concerted effort spanning over YEARS...only then will the masses hate it.

 

[M.Bison]

Whenever I make a post, I tell myself that if I would be able to express this to friends or to a group of people in life. If you follow that rule of thumb, you can avoid making cringe posts too.

Good advice. When all else fails, you can at least judge the quality of my posts. I'm sure in your insecure brain this will give you some sense of superiority....Otherwise, you have no substance and are a stupid person. I think you find my posts cringe-worthy because they invoke something inside of you. An uneducated person always feels embarrassed when confronted by their own stupidity.

 

[Lincoln]

we are NO one to dictate...but Allah IS. He does have the right to distinguish the right from the wrong. But this is something that has to be logically instilled in our people through proper education and reasoning. Has that EVER been done? NO! Our society left it to the mullahs most of whom are lakeer kay fakeer who wouldn't be able to logically convince someone why is the son BRIGHT?! Simply hammering it in that "its haram cuz Allah says its haram" is NOT enough, not even close. It needs to be shown properly WHY is it haram. In other words, yar jannat aur jahannam ka faysla to maut kay baad ho ga...yeh ehkamaat hamari ZINDAGI ko jannat bana nay kay liyay bhay jay gae hain...it needs to be a concerted effort spanning over YEARS...only then will the masses hate it.

Then leave it to God who has promised to judge on the Day of Judgement.

 

[H. Dawary]

Man oh man, when I see this said by a westerner, I often times than not don't even bother arguing with them, but when I see this written by a Muslim (supposedly) I wonder whether I should say something or not... perhaps it might be better to let such people amuse themselves in trifling plays and fun, but then I think of the young ones and perhaps speak for their sake.

But it isn't surprising to see most of the the people here who wish to separate religion from state, I wouldn't be surprised if such people also advocated LGBTQ? having gay clubs down the streets and a masjid a few blocks down, and yet we want Muslim unity...

Yet many would argue that is harmless, and forget where they came from. The irony behind these people who live in a state and yet forget the foundations of their states. If we are going to abandon our moralities which came from Islam then might as well allow anything and everything, why do we stop Incestual relationships? why do we stop abortions? and why don't we legalize drugs? Where exactly do we draw the line if not for religion, or is it anything goes?

 

[Sabretooth]

Once in while a miscreant will start a thread all of a sudden to sing the praises of his/her immoral proclivities and try hard to convince conservative people to indulge in promiscuous ways but if they don't agree then call them hypocrites. That's PDF for you.

 

[GumNaam]

Then leave it to God who has promised to judge on the Day of Judgement.

Well? Let's go with that as an example then. Why should anyone else suffer the side effects of those who DO choose get drunk in a night club and then get behind the wheels? Yeah, you can make laws around that penalizing such people all you want but let's face it...the ones who died or got crippled from drunk drivers...they are neither coming back to life nor are they getting their lives back on track now are they?

easier said than done buddy, prevention is so SO MUCH more better than the cure...

 

[SkyWolf]

we are NO one to dictate...but Allah IS.

I agree. Allah the merciful is right.
but who gets to dictate what is ALLAH's will? Who has the master code library?

Is it the Sunni or Shia?
Is it Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi or Hanbali?
Is it Jafari or Akhbari?
Is it Taliban or Sufi?
Is it the easy-going Southeast Asians or Hyper-Indo/Pak Muslims?
Is it ISIS or Al-Qaeda?
let me guess ... it's gumnaam who gets to decide all of our fate.

Pakistan is a muslim country. It might be packed to the rafters with harami, but we shouldn't be promoting haram. As for fun - if these are the only fun things for you, i feel for you.

You are assuming I do all of those things. I am more interested in the revenue, tourism these activities could bring. Finally, do you watch tv or listen to music or smoke cigarettes? There are some interpretations of Islam where those things are also haraam.

There are many things that are much worse that are haram that are condoned in some segments of our "perfect society": corruption, robberies, bribes, homosexuality, prostitution, bacha-bazi (The worst of them all), murder, acid-attacks, discrimination | Why not eliminate these things before going after some guy that wants to have a Murree Beer?

The West is backtracking on it... but Unfortunately some brain dead Muslims seems to jump in it as honey

Yet you remain in the West; Giving us lectures but probably enjoying bars and casinos yourself!

it doesn't matter for him... what he want is to get the same "Fun" that he has in the states back in Pakistan when Summer vacation kicks in...

Every holier-than-thou is judging me here. YOU ARE ALL MISSING MY POINT>
I don't want to DRINK, I want to tax the people in Pakistan who drink. I want people that tour our mountainous area, our beaches to inject their tourism dollars with ATTRACTIONS that they want and desire?

Also I never mentioned prostitution but it is interesting that most of the hyper-mullahs went there first!

 

[SQ8]

Nice generalization... of an entire group...

Doesn’t matter does it. We tolerated extremism and lost 70000 in the process. Doesn’t matter if they represented 5% or 55%.

Its time to bring all this back and support Naya Pakistan

There is no need to bring anything back. Because the character of Pakistan has now changed to where the imposition of restrictions has pushed these acts to more hidden and seedier areas which are protected by the same custodians of morality.

 

[litman]

"Indeed, those who like that immorality should be spread [or publicized] among those who have believed will have a painful punishment in this world and the Hereafter. And Allah knows and you do not know." (Surah Nur'24:19)
Quranic ayat for those who have faith in their hearts. and not for those who idealize west but unfortunately got born in a muslim family.

 

[GumNaam]

I agree. Allah the merciful is right.
but who gets to dictate what is ALLAH's will? Who has the master code library?

Is it the Sunni or Shia?
Is it Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi or Hanbali?
Is it Jafari or Akhbari?
Is it Taliban or Sufi?
Is it the easy-going Southeast Asians or Hyper-Indo/Pak Muslims?
Is it ISIS or Al-Qaeda?
let me guess ... it's gumnaam who gets to decide all of our fate.

no, gumnaam doesn't even know his own fate. but tell ya what...forget sunni, shia, hanafi, taliban, martian, what have you...

WHY NOT READ THE QURAN & STUDY THE SUNNAH OURSELVES!!! The aim is to "PROTECT" the society at large from the negative side effects of night clubs, alcohol, ballrooms, what have you. I'll say it AGAIN...the aim is to "PROTECT" the society from the negative side effects, not deal with the negative side effects. Its...as simple as that...but you CAN'T achieve that without convincing the masses on WHY did Allah make all these things punishable sins. Listen man...eating pork is ALSO haram...but guess what, there is no worldly punishment for it. Yet, consuming alcohol is JUST as haram AND carries a wordly punishment for it. WHY? Think about it? eating pork doesn't harm the society around you, it doesn't harm people around you...it's just you and your body, something you'll answer for in the hear after. But consuming alcohol DOES effect the society around you, it DOES harm the people around you...I don't think I need to explain how it harms the society & the people around you, pretty obvious. And hence, it is not only haram, it carries worldly punitive measures...

suffice it to say, the greater cause of the society's safety & security canNOT be put at risk for the demented preferences of the few.

 

[litman]

whenever an apparently muslim says that religion is between men and God and it has nothing to with the state or society it means he has never bothered to read Quran and he is nothing but a jahil .