Banu CTD Siege ends with 2 SSG personnel martyred along with all Terrorists

[Great Janjua]

I may have a tit of a brain but I am still better than your brain with zero processing ability.
You write crap and spew nonsense and actually defend it. I gotta give a credit to you…… stupid and proud of it!

I am with my patient ex military and I asked him about the clothing issue you raised and he is calling you a complete idiot… not me it’s him !!

It's not a clothing issue you absolute moron if you had the brain to comprehend what I was talking about we wouldn't be having this convo but for your stupidity's sake, I will say it again the vest the SSG dude was wearing lacked proper protection and henceforth is only there for load carriage you get it now ya clown.

 

[Great Janjua]

Regardless of how messily this entire situation was handled and my opinion on it, you’re talking to a person who was literally mentioning K/D ratios in real life AT missions, that’s how seriously he views this stuff. It’s all a video game to these people, that with little to no knowledge of how things actually happen, they deduce that a bad K/D ratio will lead to morale issues in the PA. Lmfao.

Lmao all these clowns are now jumping on the wagon if you have the time to go through my posts I've been screaming since the start of fencing and cross-border attacks that if you do not counter these hostile actions properly you will risk local LEAs at being frontal targets and army casualties rising guess what here we are at the end of 2022 with what ? The Shahadat stamp and no fcks given.

Obviously your troops are emotionally down they are not God sent robots who don't have sentiments talk about the loony brigade taking over.

If you lot think that losing good soldiers in every raid allover the country is great then theories like Lumbar 1 battle hardened super fauj make sense.

 

[MilSpec]

waste of precious lives due to appeasement of TTP and expecting that scorpions will change their nature.

With the brotherly regime in Kabul, which most of the members celebrated a year ago, I thought TTP woes for Pakistan would be a thing of History, Why is TTP escalating?

 

[Great Janjua]

With the brotherly regime in Kabul, which most of the members celebrated a year ago, I thought TTP woes for Pakistan would be a thing of History, Why is TTP escalating?

Half of these nutjobs were having an orgasm over Faiz Hameed's visit during the Afghan crisis.

 

[Flight of falcon]

It's not a clothing issue you absolute moron if you had the brain to comprehend what I was talking about we wouldn't be having this convo but for your stupidity's sake, I will say it again the vest the SSG dude was wearing lacked proper protection and henceforth is only there for load carriage you get it now ya clown.

Yes Sir I read your post again ….. you are still typing nonsense but for the sake of other people whose eyes are hurting reading your video game crap I will just move on.

Lmao all these clowns are now jumping on the wagon if you have the time to go through my posts I've been screaming since the start of fencing and cross-border attacks that if you do not counter these hostile actions properly you will risk local LEAs at being frontal targets and army casualties rising guess what here we are at the end of 2022 with what ? The Shahadat stamp and no fcks given.

Obviously your troops are emotionally down they are not God sent robots who don't have sentiments talk about the loony brigade taking over.

If you lot think that losing good soldiers in every raid allover the country is great then theories like Lumbar 1 battle hardened super fauj make sense.

Let me know which video game you play where soldiers have three lives and you earn bonus points for killing enemies.

We are at war and we will have casualties and for the love of God stop crying like a kid everytime we suffer casualties .

These brave men are protecting their motherland and in the process will suffer losses. But I assure you they spare no effort killing our enemies .

 

[Irfan Baloch]

With the brotherly regime in Kabul, which most of the members celebrated a year ago, I thought TTP woes for Pakistan would be a thing of History, Why is TTP escalating?

some will say its the same ideology or as I suggested some appeasement to keep peace in Pakistan.

but the biggest reason which is often missed out is that Afghan Taliban's inability to govern the entire Afghanistan and keep peace.
they are constantly fighting ISIS who are their mortal enemies and don't want to multiply their troubles by having to fight or contain TTP.
but its only a matter of time that TTP might join hands with ISIS to challenge their rule.

 

[SQ8]

to me its depth of criminal negligence and laziness that a CTD official allowed himself to be overpowered and seen his weapon snatched off him. I get it that its never unheard off and criminals sometime sover power policemen but that is usually at the scene of crime in a dynamic situation but not in an investigation center. I wonder why that CTD guy didnt have other colleagues next to him to neutralize the situation other than give the unthinkable possibility that one of them was working for the terrorists or they were negligent.

I don't know what became of this force, our personnel were known to train with British SAS, US Army rangers, Marines and Navy SEALS on regular basis. but this war on terror for 20 years has really affected it badly. looking at terrorist videos ambushing our convoys and attacking our check posts is painful because on many if not all situations the troops are seen as lax in their attitude or stunned at the sudden ferocity of attack and taking too long to recover and regroup.

US troops in comparison comparison in Iraq and Afghanistan faired much better. to be fair American forces had the option to pack up and leave via Pakistan but we are stuck in this place repeating the story of 1980s and 2000s somewhere in future

If I know PA regulars ops videos to US regulars they laugh at the bumbling around and are surprised more casualties aren’t taken.

That being said SSG is respected quite a bit and taken as equivalent in skill to the Green Berets… however, no one can match the legends that are delta operators. Just speaking to an ex one and that clarity and focus almost mirrors that of certain MNC Executives have. But then these are men in their mid to late 30s or even early 40s at times with experience and knowledge unmatched.

 

[MilSpec]

some will say its the same ideology or as I suggested some appeasement to keep peace in Pakistan.

but the biggest reason which is often missed out is that Afghan Taliban's inability to govern the entire Afghanistan and keep peace.
they are constantly fighting ISIS who are their mortal enemies and don't want to multiply their troubles by having to fight or contain TTP.
but its only a matter of time that TTP might join hands with ISIS to challenge their rule.

Doesn't make a lot of sense with Indian borders completely cold, escalation by TTP will only attract combing ops, which as we saw last time did not end well for these militia forces. (The coin ops under the previous coas of PA, cant recall the name of the operation)

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Half of these nutjobs were having an orgasm over Faiz Hameed's visit during the Afghan crisis.

fighting an insurgency without responsibility is one thing but keeping peace in the entire country as a ruler is another.
Afghan Taliban got ISIS and central Asian militants to deal with as well as the potential challenge from elements of northern alliance.

the ability of Afghan taliban enforcing their writ on entire Afghanistan was overestimated.
the idea was that ideologically similar Afghan Taliban who follow the extremist form of Deobandi faith like the TTP will convince their cousins to go easy on state of Pakistan or at least e discrete and selective in their targets by say only scaling back to only targeting shias but TTP has tasted the blood of the entire Pakistani pool so they are not very much fussed about choosing their targets , fighting a 20+ year war with Pakistan army has shaken off any fear as well and they have been encouraged recently when Pakistani state started sending clerics and gifts in C-130s to bring them to peace. they didnt waste time and used it to regroup and relaunch their attacks on Pakistan.

TTP had plenty of time during Gen Bajwa and Pacifist Imran Khan tenure to regroup and reorganize. my Pashton nationalist friends belonging to ANP have been highlighting their resurgence on our private Whatsapp group and even complaining that their complaints were ignored and it was in a way a conspiracy to punish Pashton ethnicity but its a bit far fetched because a considerable bulk of TTP consists of Pashtons themselves with a small but delay element of Punjabi Sipah Sahabah and Lashker Jhangvi terrorists who made their name though sectarian killings.

 

[Flight of falcon]

It’s pretty resiculous to compare SSG with Delta force or for that matter most Western special forces .

It’s like comparing a Pakistani police officer to an American.

Just look at their technological advantage, backup support, weaponry and even physical and mental training.
No money is spared to make them invincible to their enemy. They have help of their space , air and land assets with the protection of personal gear our soldiers can only dream of .

Our soldiers can never match their capabilities no matter how motivated they may be .

I remember screening soldiers heading to Iraq and it struck me how confident they were of winning the war because of their superiority in weapons and they seemed like they were heading to a picnic.

When people talk nonsense about how the war against terror should be fought by our troops they rely mostly on their video game experience and forget our limited resources and even limited support they receive once they are in combat.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Doesn't make a lot of sense with Indian borders completely cold, escalation by TTP will only attract combing ops, which as we saw last time did not end well for these militia forces. (The coin ops under the previous coas of PA, cant recall the name of the operation)

the military ops did very well every time but what is lacking is the political element which should take over once the military operation is over. KPK govt has been accused for paying monthly protection money or ransom money to be allowed to work peacefully or win freedom of its abducted people.


so the politicians are divided. oppose or condemn these religious terrorists and risk getting targeted. the ANP and PPP are denied open election rallies, they have seen their leadership as well as supporters butchered ruthlessly while the religious organizations and PTI found it relatively safe and easy to conduct its politics both during and after elections so after any military operation, the civilian setup lacks the ability to take over and bring the life to normality. there is never a consensus when the ideology of the terrorists is openly sold or excused by some religious parties and PTI is even accused of having soft corner for TTP Imran Khan for example is blamed called OBL a Martyr and TTP as fighting for rights of Pashtons.
whether or not he believes in that is debatable but he did get some political milage out of that. back in the days of Gen Musharraf his Islamabad rallies sometimes originated from Lal masjid which is still under the control of extrimist eleric who denounces state of Pakistan and claims to support Daesh,.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

It’s pretty resiculous to compare SSG with Delta force or for that matter most Western special forces .

It’s like comparing a Pakistani police officer to an American.

Just look at their technological advantage, backup support, weaponry and even physical and mental training.
No money is spared to make them invincible to their enemy. They have help of their space , air and land assets with the protection of personal gear our soldiers can only dream of .

Our soldiers can never match their capabilities no matter how motivated they may be .

I remember screening soldiers heading to Iraq and it struck me how confident they were of winning the war because of their superiority in weapons and they seemed like they were heading to a picnic.

When people talk nonsense about how the war against terror should be fought by our troops they rely mostly on their video game experience and forget our limited resources and even limited support they receive once they are in combat.

don't short sell your special forces. they have access to top tier equipment and weapons
forget the gadgets and technical support. in the end its man behind the gun. if you read the accounts of both British and American special forces then you will see there have been times where they were completely cut off from their base and we outgunned out numbered low on ammo , injured and been fighting for days and still managed to turn the things their way,
if the Pakistani special forces are not up to the mark then they wont be even allowed near the gates of SAS or US Army Rangers let alone train with them. the problem is the lack of political will and the success with which the terrorists have sold their stance to the general pubic. TTP and all its iterations are able to led into the general public get help and funding and even active support before and after the atrocity. APS attack is case in point. some very normal run of the mill families in Peshawar willingly provided shelter to the terrorists.

just look at this picture below and decide what our forces are up against. for reference it is the scene of ordinary civilians praying / crying for Osama.

 

[jhungary]

to me its depth of criminal negligence and laziness that a CTD official allowed himself to be overpowered and seen his weapon snatched off him. I get it that its never unheard off and criminals sometime sover power policemen but that is usually at the scene of crime in a dynamic situation but not in an investigation center. I wonder why that CTD guy didnt have other colleagues next to him to neutralize the situation other than give the unthinkable possibility that one of them was working for the terrorists or they were negligent.

I don't know what became of this force, our personnel were known to train with British SAS, US Army rangers, Marines and Navy SEALS on regular basis. but this war on terror for 20 years has really affected it badly. looking at terrorist videos ambushing our convoys and attacking our check posts is painful because on many if not all situations the troops are seen as lax in their attitude or stunned at the sudden ferocity of attack and taking too long to recover and regroup.

US troops in comparison comparison in Iraq and Afghanistan faired much better. to be fair American forces had the option to pack up and leave via Pakistan but we are stuck in this place repeating the story of 1980s and 2000s somewhere in future

Not sure how it works in Pakistan. but on my end, it was prohibited to bring firearm in an interrogation as that was a green zone. You will have weapon safe outside interrogation room, so you need to deposit your sidearm before you go inside. And that's applies to both Police and Military.

There are armed guard at the control point, but anything beyond that point you needed to be unarmed. because you are going to get close to someone and a weapon would be a liability not just for you but also the person you are going to interrogate. Because interrogator do shoot people during interrogation, that had happened before....

A trained person can take out 2 armed guards at close range easy, that's what the Special Force train you to do, and you never know what kind of people you are facing, so mostly interrogator will go in unarmed.

But as I said, I don't know the layout or the circumstance or the SOP for Pakistani. so I am just going to leave it at that.

 

[Flight of falcon]

don't short sell your special forces. they have access to top tier equipment and weapons
forget the gadgets and technical support. in the end its man behind the gun. if you read the accounts of both British and American special forces then you will see there have been times where they were completely cut off from their base and we outgunned out numbered low on ammo , injured and been fighting for days and still managed to turn the things their way,
if the Pakistani special forces are not up to the mark then they wont be even allowed near the gates of SAS or US Army Rangers let alone train with them. the problem is the lack of political will and the success with which the terrorists have sold their stance to the general pubic. TTP and all its iterations are able to led into the general public get help and funding and even active support before and after the atrocity. APS attack is case in point. some very normal run of the mill families in Peshawar willingly provided shelter to the terrorists.

just look at this picture below and decide what our forces are up against. for reference it is the scene of ordinary civilians praying / crying for Osama.

I agree with you on most points however there is a huge cultural difference between how soldiers are “made” and programmed here and in Pakistan.
Yes certain percentage in Pakistan join because of their family tradition but most join for a secure job or financial reasons etc.

Here most kids join because of the tradition and grooming they get through media and schools. They excel in physical fitness and technology use . It is basically drilled into them from very early age and many things cannot be taught later in life.

My supervising surgeon was a Col. In the US army. After 911 he left his extremely well paying job to serve in the army. Here the motivation to serve is dictated less by the religion and more from their love for the country.

I have absolutely no doubt that when asked to shoot their fellow countrymen and religion our soldiers must think twice before engaging them.

Another reason why special forces here excel…. They are trained to kill and those killed are not their countrymen or the same religion….

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Not sure how it works in Pakistan. but on my end, it was prohibited to bring firearm in an interrogation as that was a green zone. You will have weapon safe outside interrogation room, so you need to deposit your sidearm before you go inside. And that's applies to both Police and Military.

There are armed guard at the control point, but anything beyond that point you needed to be unarmed. because you are going to get close to someone and a weapon would be a liability not just for you but also the person you are going to interrogate. Because interrogator do shoot people during interrogation, that had happened before....

A trained person can take out 2 armed guards at close range easy, that's what the Special Force train you to do, and you never know what kind of people you are facing, so mostly interrogator will go in unarmed.

But as I said, I don't know the layout or the circumstance or the SOP for Pakistani. so I am just going to leave it at that.

the SOP's are universally same and we are trained on western model. my understanding is same as you described,
this was a case of negligence to put it mildly.

Another reason why special forces here excel…. They are trained to kill and those killed are not their countrymen or the same religion….

that is true difference. because West doesn't face insurgency at all. and since the end of WW2. America has been dragging its western allies to a perpetual war across the globe for most of the time so yea there is no danger of shooting someone of same ethnicity, skin tone or faith. so there is no psychological burden which our troops are facing.

although there are some remote white supremacist armed incidents in the west but nothing in comparison to what we have faced and mostly those incidents have been effetely handled by law enforced agencies without involving regular troops like national guards etc.