Bankruptcy is no big deal for us. Zardari

[ziaulislam]

Had Nawaz sharif era ever seen an exports of 7% we would have been china by now.
Instead we saw decline in exports ballooning debt to GDP ratio(XTERNAL)
Today bengaldeah has no motor ways but exports more then us

 

[Mav3rick]

Stats all over the internet and has been discussed to death.
Let's just pick up growth(6%), exports(28%) remittances (50%)and debt to GDP ratio (decrease by 8%)
OK let's assume Khan renegade on IMF(which there is no proof just political talk) why didn't miftah Ismail accepted IMF deal when came into power and why did he continues the subsidy for additional 60 days (Khan only kept it for 10days)

What kind BS is this?

We are still suffering because of 70b$ of loans taken without exports or remittance to back it up. Those loans were taken by Nawaz sharif since 1983

You have to roll over these loans and increase your exports which Nawaz sharif has an allergy too

Yes, indeed, stats are available left, right and center but it is the nitpicking which is a nuisance. As we were going to discuss GDP Growth, Remittances, Debt to GDP and Debt added over the period of tenures (2013 to 2018) and (2018 to 2022); it is again this nitpicking which is unfair and rather deceitful. Please bring in all the stats and find the mean during both terms to compare.

It is not political talk it is actual fact that Imran Khan committed to IMF on introducing levy on Petrol and Diesel and to increase price of Electricity but he reneged and did exactly the opposite as soon as he became aware that he would be out of the office. It was not a move against PDM but a move against the entire Pakistan. PDM can do likewise, as soon as they realize they would be out of power, and decrease prices of petrol to Rs. 100 and unit of electricity to Rs. 10/unit but that would mean no IMF and 100% default within weeks. How would that be for the incoming Government?

Miftah and the entire PDM was unsure how they would proceed, whether they would be able to continue even for a few months or would go for general elections. It is my opinion that Shahbaz Sharif, in his lust for the PM chair, manipulated his brother and others to continue with the Government and Miftah was able to make the changes he wanted to do from day 1 but only after consent from all PDM members which took a couple of months. Those 2 precious months lost us a good PKR 30-45/USD.

I have to agree to your part that Nawaz Government was unable to improve on Exports but you are also quite conveniently ignoring the fact that in their last tenure Pakistan was reeling with power shortages and the first and foremost task was to get power generation stations on war footing. This the PML Government did with flying colors and its because of that that we have surplus power generation capacity today.

Moreover, CAD which we can gradually decrease with time by improving on both remittances and exports is not a big deal.

 

[ziaulislam]

But why are we talking about this?
We all know about this!

Yes, indeed, stats are available left, right and center but it is the nitpicking which is a nuisance. As we were going to discuss GDP Growth, Remittances, Debt to GDP and Debt added over the period of tenures (2013 to 2018) and (2018 to 2022); it is again this nitpicking which is unfair and rather deceitful. Please bring in all the stats and find the mean during both terms to compare.

It is not political talk it is actual fact that Imran Khan committed to IMF on introducing levy on Petrol and Diesel and to increase price of Electricity but he reneged and did exactly the opposite as soon as he became aware that he would be out of the office. It was not a move against PDM but a move against the entire Pakistan. PDM can do likewise, as soon as they realize they would be out of power, and decrease prices of petrol to Rs. 100 and unit of electricity to Rs. 10/unit but that would mean no IMF and 100% default within weeks. How would that be for the incoming Government?

Miftah and the entire PDM was unsure how they would proceed, whether they would be able to continue even for a few months or would go for general elections. It is my opinion that Shahbaz Sharif, in his lust for the PM chair, manipulated his brother and others to continue with the Government and Miftah was able to make the changes he wanted to do from day 1 but only after consent from all PDM members which took a couple of months. Those 2 precious months lost us a good PKR 30-45/USD.

I have to agree to your part that Nawaz Government was unable to improve on Exports but you are also quite conveniently ignoring the fact that in their last tenure Pakistan was reeling with power shortages and the first and foremost task was to get power generation stations on war footing. This the PML Government did with flying colors and its because of that that we have surplus power generation capacity today.

Moreover, CAD which we can gradually decrease with time by improving on both remittances and exports is not a big deal.

So show me one bad Indicator?

Isn't Pakistan all crisis due to BALANCE OF PAYMENT??? it's like a person with heart disease comes to me and when I talk about Heart disease he complains that he has male pattern baldness??

Only thing that matters is external debt, remittances and exports (and imports some will argue but curtailing imports will always decrease growth)

What did PMLN (PDM acheived in last 40yrs)
What you are saying about IMF is word of mouth from maryum has no value. last staff agreement happened on time during PTI era and next one had ample time for PMLQ to adjust anything it wanted those are facts

CAD never started to decrease in 2018? What are you smoking?

Are you denying that current 80b$ debt without increase in exports and remittances isn't PMLN(PDM) fault and that even a 5% export growth from 1985 would have meant exports would stand today at 80b$(at 5% exports double every 12 yrs)

Instead every PMLN Era exports decreased.

Even miftah Ismail a patwari doesn't has guts to state otherwise

Do you have IQ level same as maryum

 

[ghazi52]

,...,

 

[Mav3rick]

But why are we talking about this?
We all know about this!


So show me one bad Indicator?

Isn't Pakistan all crisis due to BALANCE OF PAYMENT??? it's like a person with heart disease comes to me and when I talk about Heart disease he complains that he has male pattern baldness??

Only thing that matters is external debt, remittances and exports (and imports some will argue but curtailing imports will always decrease growth)

What did PMLN (PDM acheived in last 40yrs)
What you are saying about IMF is word of mouth from maryum has no value. last staff agreement happened on time during PTI era and next one had ample time for PMLQ to adjust anything it wanted those are facts

CAD never started to decrease in 2018? What are you smoking?

Are you denying that current 80b$ debt without increase in exports and remittances isn't PMLN(PDM) fault and that even a 5% export growth from 1985 would have meant exports would stand today at 80b$(at 5% exports double every 12 yrs)

Instead every PMLN Era exports decreased.

Even miftah Ismail a patwari doesn't has guts to state otherwise

Do you have IQ level same as maryum

You can either engage me like a normal person or you can continue proving yourself a nonsense youthia. My next post, or lack of it, will depend on how you engage further.

Our imports in the last PTI year were almost USD 80 Billion and exports at around 32 Billion USD. Compared to the worst year of PML, the exports under PTI's best year rose 28% and imports grew by more than 33%! Upon comparison, do you think the figures are flattering? And what about the debt accumulation? In just a mere 4 years PTI took more loans than PML did in its 5-year tenure. How about the massive growth in Circular debt?

You speak about IMF as a layman who has no insight on the matters except hearsay and propaganda. I have first hand knowledge of IMF matters; thankfully, I don't have to rely on Maryam's words! The last IMF program under Imran Khan was at severe risk and the Army Chief had to intervene and Imran Khan had to swallow his pride and take dictation from IMF such as imposition of Rs. 50 per liter levy on Petrol and Diesel; a very bitter pill to swallow, but a pill that Imran Khan eventually committed to swallow only to then renege after getting the tranche and on the junction of his removal. I did not understand your point about PMLQ.

PML's tenure was a deep failure in terms of export growth but a lot of our export industry was lost to Bangladesh under Musharraf (near end of his tenure) and under PPP because of massive power issues. Remember how the entire Pakistan was reeling with massive load shedding and power failures which many of the industries could not survive.

Where did I say CAD decreased in 2018? Perhaps it was the highest in 2018 but with your grace, a sitting PM was removed and the entire system was derailed by the establishment for PTI and Imran Khan which gave a very negative signal to foreign investors which hurt our FDI amongst many other. Had the establishment given even 25% of the support to PML that it gave to PTI, things could have been so damn different today. USD would not be at 290 today.

When PML came into power, our external debt was around 62 Billion and they left it at 92 Billion with around 16 Billion USD in reserves (all 16 Billion belonged to Pakistan); the GDP was around 330 Billion USD and USD at PKR 110...........When PTI was removed from power, our external debt had swelled to 130 Billion with around 11 Billion USD in reserves (of which 7.5 Billion were deposits from China, Saudi Arabia and UAE); the GDP was around 350 Billion USD and USD at PKR 182.

Fact is, even if we ignore everything above, the worst thing to mention is that Pakistan was on the verge of bankruptcy when Imran Khan was forced out of the PM house. Admittedly, we are even worse off now, but when I compare PTI's tenure to PML's tenure and the challenges which they faced, I have to say that the performance was way better than PTI.

 

[ziaulislam]

You can either engage me like a normal person or you can continue proving yourself a nonsense youthia. My next post, or lack of it, will depend on how you engage further.

Our imports in the last PTI year were almost USD 80 Billion and exports at around 32 Billion USD. Compared to the worst year of PML, the exports under PTI's best year rose 28% and imports grew by more than 33%! Upon comparison, do you think the figures are flattering? And what about the debt accumulation? In just a mere 4 years PTI took more loans than PML did in its 5-year tenure. How about the massive growth in Circular debt?

You speak about IMF as a layman who has no insight on the matters except hearsay and propaganda. I have first hand knowledge of IMF matters; thankfully, I don't have to rely on Maryam's words! The last IMF program under Imran Khan was at severe risk and the Army Chief had to intervene and Imran Khan had to swallow his pride and take dictation from IMF such as imposition of Rs. 50 per liter levy on Petrol and Diesel; a very bitter pill to swallow, but a pill that Imran Khan eventually committed to swallow only to then renege after getting the tranche and on the junction of his removal. I did not understand your point about PMLQ.

PML's tenure was a deep failure in terms of export growth but a lot of our export industry was lost to Bangladesh under Musharraf (near end of his tenure) and under PPP because of massive power issues. Remember how the entire Pakistan was reeling with massive load shedding and power failures which many of the industries could not survive.

Where did I say CAD decreased in 2018? Perhaps it was the highest in 2018 but with your grace, a sitting PM was removed and the entire system was derailed by the establishment for PTI and Imran Khan which gave a very negative signal to foreign investors which hurt our FDI amongst many other. Had the establishment given even 25% of the support to PML that it gave to PTI, things could have been so damn different today. USD would not be at 290 today.

When PML came into power, our external debt was around 62 Billion and they left it at 92 Billion with around 16 Billion USD in reserves (all 16 Billion belonged to Pakistan); the GDP was around 330 Billion USD and USD at PKR 110...........When PTI was removed from power, our external debt had swelled to 130 Billion with around 11 Billion USD in reserves (of which 7.5 Billion were deposits from China, Saudi Arabia and UAE); the GDP was around 350 Billion USD and USD at PKR 182.

Fact is, even if we ignore everything above, the worst thing to mention is that Pakistan was on the verge of bankruptcy when Imran Khan was forced out of the PM house. Admittedly, we are even worse off now, but when I compare PTI's tenure to PML's tenure and the challenges which they faced, I have to say that the performance was way better than PTI.

So you agree that imports and exports grew at same rate almost(just 5% difference) and adding remittances that growth was way better

You also agree that debt to GDP ratio fell(check SBP or Google)

We all know circular debt doubled but hey who signed the expensive coal plants in middle of Punjab (instead of that coal or Sindh) whose genius idea was to set up LNG Plants?? We all knew LNG is expensive then coal. The original plan was 6000 me of coal at gaddanai Karachi what changed?? That was an excellent plan

Common folk loves PMLN performance don't they..try to go out in Lahore without getting chapals

The GDP numbers was very good when rupee was 210 now it's 270 does manipulation of rupee helps GDP ? Or does growth and export help them

I am pretty sure after some more chatrool and even we can take the patwaris out of you

Why don't you post FDI numbers rather then talking about Khan slowing down the excess debt consumption that has put us in this situation where we are at

I pray for God please bring maryum in power takay awaam ko 30-40 saal aur dandey per jain.. I am loving it

Abhi sarry Omar key danday Jo Nawaz sharif key hath parey kafi nahi hein

 

[uhuru]

Excellent thoughts, no doubt, but where do we actually start to convert to this Islamic Economic System?

Islamic principles first need to enforce the legalities of theft. That needs to be clarified and enacted quickly. Once that is done, all these big wig thieves will be lined up for having their hands chopped off. Thereafter there will be sense of semblence and level of trust that the laws of land are being worked.
All the gifts stolen... it means all the top elites will be one handed...

 

[VCheng]

Islamic principles first need to enforce the legalities of theft. That needs to be clarified and enacted quickly. Once that is done, all these big wig thieves will be lined up for having their hands chopped off. Thereafter there will be sense of semblence and level of trust that the laws of land are being worked.
All the gifts stolen... it means all the top elites will be one handed...

So when is all that happening, and by whom? I would like to watch that, very much.

 

[uhuru]

So when is all that happening, and by whom? I would like to watch that, very much.

Yes, it must be broad cast live. Since this is an islamic country enforcing islamic values.

They wont handle the theft and here you want islamic financial... good luck. it will be stolen to the advantage of the same shenzi elite chods.

 

[VCheng]

Yes, it must be broad cast live. Since this is an islamic country enforcing islamic values.

They wont handle the theft and here you want islamic financial... good luck. it will be stolen to the advantage of the same shenzi elite chods.

I'd pay good money to watch that.

 

[ziaulislam]

Everyone has became a youthais

 

[Mav3rick]

So you agree that imports and exports grew at same rate almost(just 5% difference) and adding remittances that growth was way better

You also agree that debt to GDP ratio fell(check SBP or Google)

We all know circular debt doubled but hey who signed the expensive coal plants in middle of Punjab (instead of that coal or Sindh) whose genius idea was to set up LNG Plants?? We all knew LNG is expensive then coal. The original plan was 6000 me of coal at gaddanai Karachi what changed?? That was an excellent plan

Common folk loves PMLN performance don't they..try to go out in Lahore without getting chapals

The GDP numbers was very good when rupee was 210 now it's 270 does manipulation of rupee helps GDP ? Or does growth and export help them

I am pretty sure after some more chatrool and even we can take the patwaris out of you

Why don't you post FDI numbers rather then talking about Khan slowing down the excess debt consumption that has put us in this situation where we are at

I pray for God please bring maryum in power takay awaam ko 30-40 saal aur dandey per jain.. I am loving it

Abhi sarry Omar key danday Jo Nawaz sharif key hath parey kafi nahi hein

Export in 2011 were almost 30 Billion which fell down to 24 Billion under PML because of shifting of Textile industry to Bangladesh amongst other export oriented business closures because of apparent power availability reasons. How in the world can anyone blame the PML for lower exports is just beyond any reason or sense. Once the new power plants were set up, the exports were expected to grow as the Textile industry would have again started to flourish, amongst other businesses. You do realize that power is the fundamental platform which is an absolute necessity for export based economy?

I very strongly disagree that the debt to GDP fell under PTI; the GDP and debt was around 350 Billion and 92 Billion under PML whereas it was 375 Billion and 130 Billion under PTI ; how could debt to GDP be better under PTI?

You are seriously blaming the PML Government for the massive circular debt which accumulated under the PTI Government? The 2 reasons it grew unsustainably and into a crisis today is the steep devaluation of PKR under PTI and failure to fix losses; both land entirely at PTI. Coal is strongly being discouraged globally in favor of green power which LNG is and hence LNG was preferred over coal; furthermore, the conversion rate under PML as well as the rate of LNG was quite favorable against imported coal.

I cannot give a rat's *** what the common folk love or don't love; love and support of common people is NOT an indication of performance. The same Lahori was overjoyed and overwhelmingly voted for PML in 2013 despite massive rigging against PML by the establishment in favor of Imran Khan.

Manipulation of currency does wonders but we can only do that as long as we have sufficient incoming funds; we cannot do it at the moment and Dar's attempts to control the rupee in the past few months has hurt our economy very badly whereas he was brilliantly able to handle it back in 2016-17.

Again, do I look like someone who gives a hoot to Maryam or Nawaz or Zardari? I'd rather crush their dynasties, take away their properties and have them all auctioned. If I had my way, I would eliminate 2000-5000 politicians, clean the entire top crop of politicians including Imran Khan and appoint a dictator for 25 years. Just because someone dislikes Imran Khan or his policies or what he did to the country, it does not mean that the person is supporting some other politicians. I know the thought evades you and others but that's that!

 

[ziaulislam]

Export in 2011 were almost 30 Billion which fell down to 24 Billion under PML because of shifting of Textile industry to Bangladesh amongst other export oriented business closures because of apparent power availability reasons. How in the world can anyone blame the PML for lower exports is just beyond any reason or sense. Once the new power plants were set up, the exports were expected to grow as the Textile industry would have again started to flourish, amongst other businesses. You do realize that power is the fundamental platform which is an absolute necessity for export based economy?

I very strongly disagree that the debt to GDP fell under PTI; the GDP and debt was around 350 Billion and 92 Billion under PML whereas it was 375 Billion and 130 Billion under PTI ; how could debt to GDP be better under PTI?

View attachment 920324

You are seriously blaming the PML Government for the massive circular debt which accumulated under the PTI Government? The 2 reasons it grew unsustainably and into a crisis today is the steep devaluation of PKR under PTI and failure to fix losses; both land entirely at PTI. Coal is strongly being discouraged globally in favor of green power which LNG is and hence LNG was preferred over coal; furthermore, the conversion rate under PML as well as the rate of LNG was quite favorable against imported coal.

I cannot give a rat's *** what the common folk love or don't love; love and support of common people is NOT an indication of performance. The same Lahori was overjoyed and overwhelmingly voted for PML in 2013 despite massive rigging against PML by the establishment in favor of Imran Khan.

Manipulation of currency does wonders but we can only do that as long as we have sufficient incoming funds; we cannot do it at the moment and Dar's attempts to control the rupee in the past few months has hurt our economy very badly whereas he was brilliantly able to handle it back in 2016-17.

Again, do I look like someone who gives a hoot to Maryam or Nawaz or Zardari? I'd rather crush their dynasties, take away their properties and have them all auctioned. If I had my way, I would eliminate 2000-5000 politicians, clean the entire top crop of politicians including Imran Khan and appoint a dictator for 25 years. Just because someone dislikes Imran Khan or his policies or what he did to the country, it does not mean that the person is supporting some other politicians. I know the thought evades you and others but that's that!

Pick up history since 1988 ..every time Nawaz sharif destroyed the economy and benazir bailed him out

Yes it's clear you love maryum Nawaz otherwise why would you defend her all the time. I mean I love her too (especially after recent face lifts surgery though too much tension on the latest surgery she had in England) but not the amount you love her

Yes if you dislike Imran Khan you automatically like PDM because there are only two parties unless you support TLP or barbarians party

Ps
1+1=2 how do you disgree with that ??

Debt to GDP ratio fell because GDP grew at pace faster then taking loans ..

If anyone replicate PTI Performance of 3.5 years for 10 years Pakistan exports will 100b$ and debt to GDP ratio below 60% which is pretty healthy (like it was in 2008)

The only reason we took a small IMF Dela in 2008(just 2b$) was global financial crisis causing a sudden decrease in exports but afterwards it was all ishaq dar miracles

Depsite selling 7000 people for over 10billion Dollars of CSF money he was still unable to keep economy floating

 

[python-000]

 

[R2D2]

Modern economic system does not works like this.

Gold is in demand but Silver is not.

Gold also exist in limited amount and its value is not sufficient to cover whole range of assets in possession of a society. Paper Currency fills this gap.

Paper Currency might be substituted with Digital Currency in the future:

Digital Currency: The Future Of Your Money

Digital currency has the potential to completely change how society thinks about money. The rise of Bitcoin (BTC), Ethereum (ETH) and thousands of other cryptocurrencies that exist only in electronic form has led global central banks to research how national digital currencies might work. What Is D

www.forbes.com

Gold will remain in demand separately much like in the present.



Its value is not pegged to gold reserves but shaped by market demands.

The Value of Paper Money Around the World - Currency Notes - IMF F&D Magazine - June 2018 | Volume 55 | Number 2

With digital currencies and online payments gaining steam, the future of paper money may be in jeopardy. What was once valued precisely because of its physicality is giving way to a new global, digital economy.

www.imf.org

Understand this much: anything that is in demand and accepted for exchange with other goods, is valuable.

For example, you can sell your car if you want to (this product is in demand). You might receive its value in cash from a customer who might be a car dealer, or you might get its value adjusted in the cost of another car that you are looking forward to purchase from a dealer if he is buying your car. This is how it works.



Iss muft khorray ko kiya farq parta hai.

His Excellency's revenue streams include kickbacks from projects and party funds. He has investment power by extension.