Bangladeshi officers in Kolkata - Gen. Bhuiyan...Highly friendly with India?

[kalu_miah]

For the current condition of selling the country to others Bangladeshi people, politicians are responsible not the army. I once asked a question like yours to my brother furiously that this senior defence officers like CAS, DGFI chief all knew about this BDR massacre, they didn't do anything...didn't they take their oath once?. He said, "they (defence officers) also knew that your politicians are their seniors, so decision was up to them and they maintained the chain of command".

Please try to think from all perspectives, we the people are cheaters, we want them to rescue us from danger whenever needed but we'll later again punish them because they have their govt. job bond. Look at Mosharraf in Pakistan...I meet many Pakistani people here in Malaysia, no one ever told me that he did bad to Pakistan compared to political govt. Now what's he undergoing there? The same thing applies to Ershad, he's now one velka and to many betrayer.

It's true army is completely controlled by BAL/india now but it never means all are sold. Probably people who might take some steps are afraid seeing others' fates especially BDR officers.

With due respect Bhai, I disagree with your views. Just look at the situation in Pakistan or Sri Lanka, their Army did not get sold out to the highest bidder like this.

As for Chain of Command, if Army top brass knows full well that some of our politicians are being controlled by another country, it is in their job description to remove them from office and put them in jail where they belong. As long as the Armed forces do not wake up to this realization about their responsibility, our country will not be able to go forward.

As I said before, we the people of Bangladesh, hire them, train them, give them all military hardware, so they remain the ultimate authority in terms of being the most organized and powerful force within the country - if they cannot do their job using that authority, then sold out politicians, journalists, professors et al will get away with treason, and they will say that they maintained chain of command. This is evasion of responsibility and duty, pure and simple.

Us Bangladeshi's are South Asians like other Indians, but I think our people are even more delusional than even Indians, I am sorry to say, because we do not see this kind of problem in India. I guess they are not under as much threat because of their size. Pakistan and Sri Lanka are better examples where the Armed forces are doing their jobs, keeping traitors out of their polity, Bangladesh has become infested with national traitors and are currently being run by them. It did not happen in one day, it started with confusion of our all "great" leaders like Mujib, Bhashani, Shiraj Shikder et al, all of them short sighted and emotional and all of them providing poor leadership for the nation. The basic problem that I see among the people and leaders of Bangladesh is poor understanding of geopolitics. If a nation cannot get its geopolitics right, they are bound to make mistakes after mistakes and go from higher level of independence and sovereignty to lower levels, and as a result lose control of the steering wheel of their nation and thus keeping the nation in the vicious cycle of poverty and underdevelopment.

 

[Skies]

our army is a total joke and failed, and right now acting as a traitors being ungrateful, and you are talking about infiltration of foreign agents in Army...... ok tell me why the armies of India and PK are not infiltrated as they have numerous enemies. Because their Army have a strong intelligent branch.


I think like ISI and Pk army, BD army must rule our political parties in favor of national interests. Why army fears BAL..... rather BAL or BNP or whatever it is..... must fear army, so that anyone can not destroy national security.

Bangali naki birrer jati, my my....

 

[kalu_miah]

Geopolitics 101:

- look at map of Bangladesh
- understand threat we face
- know our enemy
- guard against our enemy
- take stalk of current situation, infiltrated and infested by enemy agents
- identify them and neutralize, cut off contact with enemy to avoid infiltration
- build relation with allies and potential allies in the neighborhood and rest of the world
- once nation is secure with firm relations with rest of world and allied powers, normalize relation with current enemy, slowly in phases and cut off at any time if infiltration is detected

 

[Zabaniyah]

With due respect Bhai, I disagree with your views. Just look at the situation in Pakistan or Sri Lanka, their Army did not get sold out to the highest bidder like this.

As for Chain of Command, if Army top brass knows full well that some of our politicians are being controlled by another country, it is in their job description to remove them from office and put them in jail where they belong. As long as the Armed forces do not wake up to this realization about their responsibility, our country will not be able to go forward.

As I said before, we the people of Bangladesh, hire them, train them, give them all military hardware, so they remain the ultimate authority in terms of being the most organized and powerful force within the country - if they cannot do their job using that authority, then sold out politicians, journalists, professors et al will get away with treason, and they will say that they maintained chain of command. This is evasion of responsibility and duty, pure and simple.

Us Bangladeshi's are South Asians like other Indians, but I think our people are even more delusional than even Indians, I am sorry to say, because we do not see this kind of problem in India. I guess they are not under as much threat because of their size. Pakistan and Sri Lanka are better examples where the Armed forces are doing their jobs, keeping traitors out of their polity, Bangladesh has become infested with national traitors and are currently being run by them. It did not happen in one day, it started with confusion of our all "great" leaders like Mujib, Bhashani, Shiraj Shikder et al, all of them short sighted and emotional and all of them providing poor leadership for the nation. The basic problem that I see among the people and leaders of Bangladesh is poor understanding of geopolitics. If a nation cannot get its geopolitics right, they are bound to make mistakes after mistakes and go from higher level of independence and sovereignty to lower levels, and as a result lose control of the steering wheel of their nation and thus keeping the nation in the vicious cycle of poverty and underdevelopment.

If we look at the situations in Asian countries like Bangladesh, Thailand and Cambodia, the situations are very similar. It shows how fragile developing Asian democracies can be. Add that to unprofessional armies and police forces.

Of-course, the countries I mentioned all have their unique political equations. But for Bangladesh, the political equation is very complex, and very difficult to balance.

India identified the equation wrong from the very beginning, and hence getting the wrong results. Not even in 100 years are they going to get the results they desire. To assume that Jamaat would claim 500 seats in parliament alone is a quintessential delusion. And one that only a hardliner's childish sentimentality to bring back the scars of the past. Bangladeshis want none of that. All that has been resolved in 1947 and finally 1971 in their minds. Unfortunately for some, that isn't enough. Such callous misuse and of power and disregard for the innocent regardless of the context could become their very own undoing in the long term.

It also shows that we have nothing in common with them since they cannot understand or comprehend the nation, and do so in their "ideal" self-image all for the wrong reasons.

On the other hand, the NATO-bloc tells us to hold "credible" elections, but that itself is an inaccurate statement since most Bangladeshis regardless of how delusional they may be have lost any real traction with the political heavy-weights, including with the BNP and Jamaat. It shows that they have been settling their interests in Bangladesh through both family-dominated parties.

Therein lies the big question mark as far as balancing the equation goes. And that is crucial for a stable democracy on the road to maturity.

See, after the death of Basani, Zia took much of his ideas from him, and rose that way. After his death, and Mujib before that, it left a power vacuum that cockroaches like Ershad, Hasina and Khaleda managed to grab. There is no real power in the throne. Mujib also annihilated whatever was left of the Muslim League. Apart from Basani (who died from old-age complications) It was this senseless violence that tore fate of the nation as a democracy for which we were fighting for from the very beginning.

It is the people of Bangladesh who must balance that equation. No one can do it for them because they are incapable of doing so regardless of how "civilized" they may project themselves to be. They are the harbingers of their destiny.

After that happens, the army and police forces automatically become professional over time. A system chosen by the people, for the people. And I never said it'd be easy.

May I also suggest the Homeland Security initiative? Yes please.

 

[kalu_miah]

If we look at the situations in Asian countries like Bangladesh, Thailand and Cambodia, the situations are very similar. It shows how fragile developing Asian democracies can be. Add that to unprofessional armies and police forces.

Of-course, the countries I mentioned all have their unique political equations. But for Bangladesh, the political equation is very complex, and very difficult to balance.

India identified the equation wrong from the very beginning, and hence getting the wrong results. Not even in 100 years are they going to get the results they desire. To assume that Jamaat would claim 500 seats in parliament alone is a quintessential delusion. And one that only a hardliner's childish sentimentality to bring back the scars of the past. Bangladeshis want none of that. All that has been resolved in 1947 and finally 1971 in their minds. Unfortunately for some, that isn't enough. Such callous misuse and of power and disregard for the innocent regardless of the context could become their very own undoing in the long term.

It also shows that we have nothing in common with them since they cannot understand or comprehend the nation, and do so in their "ideal" self-image all for the wrong reasons.

On the other hand, the NATO-bloc tells us to hold "credible" elections, but that itself is an inaccurate statement since most Bangladeshis regardless of how delusional they may be have lost any real traction with the political heavy-weights, including with the BNP and Jamaat. It shows that they have been settling their interests in Bangladesh through both family-dominated parties.

Therein lies the big question mark as far as balancing the equation goes. And that is crucial for a stable democracy on the road to maturity.

See, after the death of Basani, Zia took much of his ideas from him, and rose that way. After his death, and Mujib before that, it left a power vacuum that cockroaches like Ershad, Hasina and Khaleda managed to grab. There is no real power in the throne. Mujib also annihilated whatever was left of the Muslim League. Apart from Basani (who died from old-age complications) It was this senseless violence that tore fate of the nation as a democracy for which we were fighting for from the very beginning.

It is the people of Bangladesh who must balance that equation. No one can do it for them because they are incapable of doing so regardless of how "civilized" they may project themselves to be. They are the harbingers of their destiny.

After that happens, the army and police forces automatically become professional over time. A system chosen by the people, for the people. And I never said it'd be easy.

May I also suggest the Homeland Security initiative? Yes please.

I appreciate your analysis, but do not agree with this narrative that Bangladeshi public have lost confidence with both parties and democracy itself. What alternatives are available then, military rule like 1/11 Gen. Moeen? Please give us a break. Public is not going that route again.

Only alternative available is a free and fair election, within 3 months after an Army takeover, inspired by UN threat of their dismissal or put on hold from UNPKF operations.

If the above does not take place, then we are looking at a next Afghanistan, regardless of what some scared public may like it or not. And I hope the US, EU, China and UN are listening, if they want to avoid another Afghanistan, with 6 times the population crammed in many times smaller land, right next to South East Asia, which will destabilize:
- India, and particularly NE states and Muslim majority pockets
- possibly Myanmar
- potentially muslim part of SE Asia as well

 

[Zabaniyah]

I appreciate your analysis, but do not agree with this narrative that Bangladeshi public have lost confidence with both parties and democracy itself. What alternatives are available then, military rule like 1/11 Gen. Moeen? Please give us a break. Public is not going that route again.

Only alternative available is a free and fair election, within 3 months after an Army takeover, inspired by UN threat of their dismissal or put on hold from UNPKF operations.

If the above does not take place, then we are looking at a next Afghanistan, regardless of what some scared public may like it or not. And I hope the US, EU, China and UN are listening, if they want to avoid another Afghanistan, with 6 times the population crammed in many times smaller land, right next to South East Asia, which will destabilize:
- India, and particularly NE states and Muslim majority pockets
- possibly Myanmar
- potentially muslim part of SE Asia as well

Beijing isn't in any position to have any say on the election matter.

And yes, the public have lost confidence in the two parties. More specifically, the two fat chicks. I'm sorry, but that is the reality, and not our personal opinions. I never said that the public have lost interest in democracy. Not a chance.

The reason being that the two fatties have been more concerned about settling scores against one other, rather than for the nation. That's why I said that regardless of how illiterate Bangladeshis maybe, the majority know and realize this. That is why BNP/Jamaat demonstrations have received such poor response. But then, very few voted on January 5th. Gulshan and Banani voting centers were completely empty.

Recall that the politics of Bangladesh were traditionally dominated by the two families. And we know that family-based politics goes nowhere in a democracy (or any system for that matter). This is a recorded fact.

High society, how they evolved and the example they set for the lesser ones to follow is also another factor. The founder of Partex Group for example started out as a smuggler. That's how he made his money. There are plenty of examples like that. That creates mistrust within society. And when there's mistrust, there's no unity with fear being gripped in their minds.

The point being that there never was any real democracy in Bangladesh where the grass-roots people can have a say, and move forward together. And if there ever was one, it was fragile and dangerously volatile. People actually got killed. It's a system composed of criminals and the corrupt. No one in Bangladesh ever wanted that reality, NO ONE. But that is reality (sadly).

People voted for leaders for whom they hope can be a better government, but that has increasingly turned out into a viscous lie. A big practical joke. Hasina and Khaleda were obsessed in how well their little cat-fights went about. That dominated their parties as well, which are filled with mostly incompetent men and women.

The Awami Leauge were severely leveled after Mujib's assassination. And the nation's first election result was so because people's memory of Mujib's tyranny was still fresh. The AL was a very weak party even back then. That's why the AL worked so hard in the media sector, honey money flowing from mysterious sources. They worked very hard.

At present, there is a lot of difference between the AL and BNP. What two months was worth for BNP is like two years for the AL. They are a lot stronger. It is really no easy task to go against the AL right now.

I think speaking about democracy, the role of the military, politics, society and how it all evolves is very interesting for Muslim-majority nations. It's a topic worthy of research and discussion.

Needless to say, I always support a multi-party democracy no matter what anyone says. And that includes Islamists, but then, they can of-course be present in a democracy in a Muslim-majority nation. If one doesn't like the likes of Jamaat, don't vote for them. I know I wouldn't because I think they are weird.

The US, along with the rest of the NATO bloc wanted the same for Muslim countries. But simply do not know how. Recall that they were the ones pressuring Pakistan to move forward to democracy. I think it is highly unfortunate for India to take such a stand at present. Utterly immature as well.

In a democracy, it is usually easier and more straightforward under a secular system. Yes, religious parties can be there, but the system is indifferent to religion. There is close to no research in the realms of political science on the matter of religion being embedded in a democratic system. Much of the relationship is based on mere opinions and based on very simple connotations. Be they Islamists, or Westerners. It's just like these radical right-wing and left-wing parties springing up in Europe. Very simple ideals, and not dealing with the complex web of reality.

That is where much of the misunderstanding and mistrust is. Islamists around the world are mostly an immature bunch, but so were (and probably still are) the Western powers. Their immaturity and lack of knowledge during the days of the Cold War is what partly contributed to the mess in parts of the Muslim World. It's like a democracy experiment of a culture they lack knowledge of.

Islamic banking on the other hand has a science behind it. And a proven methodology. That's why it is being sprung up by Western banking institutions around the world. Standard Chartered even offers Halal (Saadiq) credit cards.

See, people must be given the power of choice. And that is what a democracy gives. A system based on forced ideals and personal utopias are destined to fall apart in time. If Jamaat is banned, where else would the Islamists of Bangladesh go? What room would they have to maneuver? They have rights too no matter how much they are hated, or how small they may be. And in fact, Islam means a lot to many Bangladeshis and their identity. There's a reason why Islamic banking is such a profitable business in Bangladesh.

Any system in which a significant fraction of the people reject would inevitably fail. And that is why dictatorships and one-party states fail. And so would the AL.

Just give it time. It'll fall apart. Hasina has a shelf-life of 15 years max. The various AL factions will starting fighting one another for power.

If Bangladesh is to become a failed state, then so be it. They like doing things the hard way, they'll learn the hard way. The equation will be balanced that must be accepted by all. If not, they'll suffer the consequences.

And sometimes kalu bhai, it's best to let nature take its course. Especially when there is no science behind anything. Let alone rationality. Anything is possible in Bangladesh.

 

[scholseys]

Truth of the matter is the people of Bangladesh care about democracy but they are fed up with both the parties. BNP's 'restore democracy' campaign will not fly with the masses. It has to give the people of Bangladesh a higher cause to die for, that is exposing India in the media and lead a nationalism campaign.

 

[livingdead]

why is this news, bd army is our army... I am sure when we face threat bd army will be there to save us.

 

[arp2041]

Nice gesture from India

"Sometimes we pay in cash & sometimes we pay in service" - RAW officer when asked about how the Dalali is paid to the dalals sitting in Dhaka.