Bangladesh is getting closer to Eurofighter Typhoon

[Avicenna]

Yes excellent point about spending too much money now on new-build fighters that will within a decade of service become obsolete.

I am not in favour of buying new build EFTs as like you say they will be obselete in the world of the 2030s. Unfortunately with the little tidbits of information that are coming out it looks like BD will buy 16 of these jets for its MRCA requirement. Not only are the EFTs expensive to buy but they are also quite expensive to operate and so would really drain the money that the government gives to BAF.

My preference would be 16 second-hand Gripen-Cs now, updated with the plug-in AESA radar that Sweden has developed and new electronics fitted. With Meteor missile these would be substantially better than anything Myanmar has right now and more than a match if they went and brought JF-17 Block 3s as a response - not that they can really afford them but you never know.

Also with the Mig-29BMs being upgraded and looking at the possibility of getting China to look at software modifications on the KLJ-6F radar of F-7BGI for it to fire SD-10As, then this would add to BAF capability on top very cheaply and quickly.

By saving money now, then BAF in the late 2020s can look at buying 2-3 squadrons(32-48 planes) of J-35s which should be excellent for India and then maybe in the early 2030s buying 2-3 squadrons of TF-X from Turkey, provided that programme is successful as a hedge against both Myanmar and India.

What is the time frame for delivery of any perspective Typhoon purchase?

Typhoon will be relevant to the 2050s supposedly.

What's good enough for UK and Germany is certainly good enough for Bangladesh.

More than the specifics of what's being bought, I'm just happy BAF is taking the plunge into another level of hardware.

It would have been disappointing to field Chinese or Russian types at this point.

Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, Viper, Super Hornet......I will take any of these as it represents a new era for BAF.

 

[UKBengali]

What is the time frame for delivery of any perspective Typhoon purchase?

Typhoon will be relevant to the 2050s supposedly.

What's good enough for UK and Germany is certainly good enough for Bangladesh.

More than the specifics of what's being bought, I'm just happy BAF is taking the plunge into another level of hardware.

It would have been disappointing to field Chinese or Russian types at this point.

Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, Viper, Super Hornet......I will take any of these as it represents a new era for BAF.

What if MAF buys just 12 J-35s in the 2030s? No reason China will say no as long as Myanmar is willing to give them something in return if they do not have the hard cash.


Those other countries like Germany you mentioned are also investing in 6th gen platforms like NCAS for circa 2040 and the UK already has F-35B and wants to have Tempest in service by 2035. Anyway they are all part of the Nato alliance and can call on each other for mutual support - BD is on its own.

BD is resource constrained country and so like the Chinese poster says needs to think very carefully before committing billions to 4th generation fighters that will not come into service before 2025 at the earliest.

Saying all this, with the current state of BAF I would not mind that much if they spent 4 billion dollars on 16 EFTs, especially if they come with the Mk 2 Captor-E AESA radar currently being developed by the UK.

 

[TOTUU]

What is the time frame for delivery of any perspective Typhoon purchase?

Typhoon will be relevant to the 2050s supposedly.

What's good enough for UK and Germany is certainly good enough for Bangladesh.

More than the specifics of what's being bought, I'm just happy BAF is taking the plunge into another level of hardware.

It would have been disappointing to field Chinese or Russian types at this point.

Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, Viper, Super Hornet......I will take any of these as it represents a new era for BAF.

Personally, I think if you are going to buy weapons from the west, you should buy from the US and better not from Europe.
Europe is now seriously behind the United States in many technologies, and in political terms, Europe is a vassal of the United States, which greatly limits the development of European weapons.
The United States is still the undisputed NO.1 power in the world, and buying American weapons has great political value.
Buying European weapons has no political effect. After all, it is affiliated with the United States.
Don't look at the present from the past.
Europe has fallen far behind China and the United States in terms of R&D spending and speed.
If you don't believe me, you can go to various statistical organizations and look at the data, and you can look at the products on the market, and you can look at the change in the number of European companies in the Fortune 500.
As for Russia, its economy is small and its population is too small. Many technologies and research and development have to be abandoned. This is caused by objective conditions.

"Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, Viper, Super Hornet " ....These planes are on the way out and not suitable for after 2030 .
If you really want to buy European and American 3rd generation fighters, I think F-15 is the best choice.
American planes will always be better than European planes because America is the boss and Europe is the little brother. It is understandable .This is also why the US has had the F-22 for decades, while Europe has no prototype for a fourth-generation fighter.

 

[TOTUU]

What if MAF buys just 12 J-35s in the 2030s? No reason China will say no as long as Myanmar is willing to give them something in return if they do not have the hard cash.


Those other countries like Germany you mentioned are also investing in 6th gen platforms like NCAS for circa 2040 and the UK already has F-35B and wants to have Tempest in service by 2035. Anyway they are all part of the Nato alliance and can call on each other for mutual support - BD is on its own.

BD is resource constrained country and so like the Chinese poster says needs to think very carefully before committing billions to 4th generation fighters that will not come into service before 2025 at the earliest.

Saying all this, with the current state of BAF I would not mind that much if they spent 4 billion dollars on 16 EFTs, especially if they come with the Mk 2 Captor-E AESA radar currently being developed by the UK.

The British and German fighter development is not optimistic at all and the Americans will stop them in due course.
Only if their research does not pose any threat to the US will the US feel comfortable to let them develop it.


Turkey TF - X also has a lot of unfavorable factors, the external environment more bad than South Korea, and Europe, the United States, Russia and China have no stable friendly relations and the international relations is very important for a country, as long as a country can obtain two of the four full support, the development of the country will be much easier.
Turkey's own strength, population, and technology would not support it to develop a mainstream fighter jet in service, as China did in the past.
It was only after 2000 , when China's technology developed rapidly, that China slowly accumulated the ability to develop first-class fighter jets.
Turkey will have little international support.
Due to Turkey's population, territory, and resource constraints, the growth ceiling is very low.
South Korea is different. Its geographical position means that the US and Europe will definitely support its development, which puts its development ceiling higher than Turkey's and makes it easier to develop.
Bangladesh also has the same geographical advantage. As long as India develops, China, US and Europe will support its development accordingly.
Of course, Bangladesh also has a lower ceiling for development than South Korea because Bangladesh is a Muslim country and South Korea is a Christian country, and Bangladesh has a larger population.
When South Korea was developing its economy, it basically got full support from the United States and Europe, and it chose to be the same with the United States and Europe in religion.
South Korea, with its small population and the presence of American troops on its territory, poses no threat to the United States or Europe.
Bangladesh has none of these advantages.
Unless the United States is a Muslim country and the population of the United States is 1.2 billion.
LOL
In terms of population politics, less than a third of a country's population can be tolerated by its supporters.（google trans） usa 330 million , It supports the development of a country with a maximum population of 110 million ,of course These are theoretical numbers . The population of Japan is slightly more than one-third that of the United States.

In a sense, the countries where the US troops are stationed cede some sovereignty and gain economic, political and military support from the US, which is one of the benefits.
After all, America is number one in the world, and it is important to have its support.
Turkey has benefited in the past, but everyone knows what is happening now.

Bangladesh has more complete sovereignty than South Korea, which has both advantages and disadvantages.
I am using the translation software, some of the meaning may be biased, I hope it will not cause misunderstanding.

 

[fallstuff]

Myanmar's political earthquake has severely weakened its strength.
Personally, I don't think this is a good time to buy fighterjets.
Because within five to 10 years, there will be a variety of new generation fighters on the market.
Many countries have delayed fighter jet purchases or are buying only light fightersto get
through the transition.
The countries that are still buying heavy fighter jets are countries that are under a lot of military pressure.
The Eurofighter Typhoon is a third generation fighter, it will be obsolete in the 2030s, and its
service life will be at least 30 years.
This is the golden period of development for many countries, the US and Europe will use a lot of
power to suppress China, they don't have the strength to suppress other countries, they don't
dare to suppress many countries like Turkey and Iran too much, because they are afraid that
excessive repression will lead them to be closer to China.
Bangladesh also has this advantage now, the more it gets closer to China, the more it will be
treated well by Europe, USA and even India.
Iran and China signed a 25 year deal and the US immediately said it would lift sanctions based
on the same logic.

All in all, I think Bangladesh should buy some cheap planes now and wait for 5 years to negotiate for a new generation of fighter jets. The benefit of this is saving money and having a new generation of more powerful fighter jets.

Good point.
However, one need to start prepare for trouble that may be down the road. Sometimes you get picked on cause you appear weak.

 

[UKBengali]

The British and German fighter development is not optimistic at all and the Americans will stop them in due course.
Only if their research does not pose any threat to the US will the US feel comfortable to let them develop it.


Turkey TF - X also has a lot of unfavorable factors, the external environment more bad than South Korea, and Europe, the United States, Russia and China have no stable friendly relations and the international relations is very important for a country, as long as a country can obtain two of the four full support, the development of the country will be much easier.
Turkey's own strength, population, and technology would not support it to develop a mainstream fighter jet in service, as China did in the past.
It was only after 2000 , when China's technology developed rapidly, that China slowly accumulated the ability to develop first-class fighter jets.
Turkey will have little international support.
Due to Turkey's population, territory, and resource constraints, the growth ceiling is very low.
South Korea is different. Its geographical position means that the US and Europe will definitely support its development, which puts its development ceiling higher than Turkey's and makes it easier to develop.
Bangladesh also has the same geographical advantage. As long as India develops, China, US and Europe will support its development accordingly.
Of course, Bangladesh also has a lower ceiling for development than South Korea because Bangladesh is a Muslim country and South Korea is a Christian country, and Bangladesh has a larger population.
When South Korea was developing its economy, it basically got full support from the United States and Europe, and it chose to be the same with the United States and Europe in religion.
South Korea, with its small population and the presence of American troops on its territory, poses no threat to the United States or Europe.
Bangladesh has none of these advantages.
Unless the United States is a Muslim country and the population of the United States is 1.2 billion.
LOL
In terms of population politics, less than a third of a country's population can be tolerated by its supporters.（google trans） usa 330 million , It supports the development of a country with a maximum population of 110 million ,of course These are theoretical numbers . The population of Japan is slightly more than one-third that of the United States.

In a sense, the countries where the US troops are stationed cede some sovereignty and gain economic, political and military support from the US, which is one of the benefits.
After all, America is number one in the world, and it is important to have its support.
Turkey has benefited in the past, but everyone knows what is happening now.

Bangladesh has more complete sovereignty than South Korea, which has both advantages and disadvantages.
I am using the translation software, some of the meaning may be biased, I hope it will not cause misunderstanding.

Again you make excellent points and I almost agree with everything you say.
Don't worry as I can work out exactly what you mean.

The one major issue I would take is with Turkey as there are certain key advantages that it has over S Korea in terms of building its defence industries:

1. Larger population and potentially larger economy - currently richer per capita S Korea is just as rich as Turkey but Turkey has more potential to grow due the fact that its per capita is less and it has higher population grow - Turkey could have twice as many as S Korea by 2050.
With the world turning bi-polar as China takes its place alongside US, then I think Turkey's not so good relations with West will be as much of a hindrance as it is now.


2. Turkey has a ready defence market of large population wise Muslim countries like Pakistan and BD that will give it the economies of scale. Everything else being equal, a country like Pakistan and BD would prefer a weapon system from Turkey over S Korea, due to supplier reliability and also remember heavy US influence over S Korea that may affect spare parts and supplies.

Now I know some posters are not optimistic about Turkish economy but the IMF probably knows more than all of us and they are optimistic on Turkey over the next 5 years at least and so it is safe to say that Turkey's slow catch up to Western European living standards is likely to continue at least this decade.


Lastly as for TF-X, yes I agree that its success is not guaranteed as the engine hangs in the balance and the Turks, unlike S Korea, have never developed a fighter jet of any kind in the past, and that is why I said BD should buy if the programme is successful.

If the TF-X is say as good as latest EFT with better stealth but lacking a little in radar, avionics and missiles then that should be good enough for BD as a starting point. It will be developed by Turkey over many decades, whereas the EFT version that gets developed by UK by 2025 will probably be the ultimate one as the Europeans are moving into 5th/6th gen fighters procurement and development.

 

[Michael Corleone]

Personally, I think if you are going to buy weapons from the west, you should buy from the US and better not from Europe.
Europe is now seriously behind the United States in many technologies, and in political terms, Europe is a vassal of the United States, which greatly limits the development of European weapons.
The United States is still the undisputed NO.1 power in the world, and buying American weapons has great political value.
Buying European weapons has no political effect. After all, it is affiliated with the United States.
Don't look at the present from the past.
Europe has fallen far behind China and the United States in terms of R&D spending and speed.
If you don't believe me, you can go to various statistical organizations and look at the data, and you can look at the products on the market, and you can look at the change in the number of European companies in the Fortune 500.
As for Russia, its economy is small and its population is too small. Many technologies and research and development have to be abandoned. This is caused by objective conditions.

"Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen, Viper, Super Hornet " ....These planes are on the way out and not suitable for after 2030 .
If you really want to buy European and American 3rd generation fighters, I think F-15 is the best choice.
American planes will always be better than European planes because America is the boss and Europe is the little brother. It is understandable .This is also why the US has had the F-22 for decades, while Europe has no prototype for a fourth-generation fighter.

I agree

 

[TOTUU]

Again you make excellent points and I almost agree with everything you say.
Don't worry as I can work out exactly what you mean.

The one major issue I would take is with Turkey as there are certain key advantages that it has over S Korea in terms of building its defence industries:

1. Larger population and potentially larger economy - currently richer per capita S Korea is just as rich as Turkey but Turkey has more potential to grow due the fact that its per capita is less and it has higher population grow - Turkey could have twice as many as S Korea by 2050.
With the world turning bi-polar as China takes its place alongside US, then I think Turkey's not so good relations with West will be as much of a hindrance as it is now.


2. Turkey has a ready defence market of large population wise Muslim countries like Pakistan and BD that will give it the economies of scale. Everything else being equal, a country like Pakistan and BD would prefer a weapon system from Turkey over S Korea, due to supplier reliability and also remember heavy US influence over S Korea that may affect spare parts and supplies.

Now I know some posters are not optimistic about Turkish economy but the IMF probably knows more than all of us and they are optimistic on Turkey over the next 5 years at least and so it is safe to say that Turkey's slow catch up to Western European living standards is likely to continue at least this decade.


Lastly as for TF-X, yes I agree that its success is not guaranteed as the engine hangs in the balance and the Turks, unlike S Korea, have never developed a fighter jet of any kind in the past, and that is why I said BD should buy if the programme is successful.

If the TF-X is say as good as latest EFT with better stealth but lacking a little in radar, avionics and missiles then that should be good enough for BD as a starting point. It will be developed by Turkey over many decades, whereas the EFT version that gets developed by UK by 2025 will probably be the ultimate one as the Europeans are moving into 5th/6th gen fighters procurement and development.

Thank you for your comments .
The size of the external market is not enough to help Turkey become a military and technological power 。
Turkey's internal market is small, and the external market it has access to is also very small.
Every military power has a large internal market and a large external market 。

• The Soviet Union and the United States are classic examples

There are a lot of rich and poor countries buying their weapons and they use the world market to develop leading military technology 。
Let's take a look at the development of Russian weapons technology. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia's internal market has shrunk and the external market has also shrunk. Now in the international arms market, Russia's share varies between 20-35%, and in this situation, Russia's military technology is developing slowly .
We can also add up the military budgets of countries that are willing to buy and support Turkey and see how big that market is.
These countries that support Turkey also buy weapons from other countries at the same time, such as European, American, and Russian, not only because of the technology and quality of the weapons, but also because they have to buy them just to get political support.

There are only some countries within the Islamic world that will support Turkey, while in the non-Islamic world, there are very few willing to support Turkey.
We can take South Korea as an example. South Korea is most importantly supported by the United States, and this comprehensive support has allowed South Korea to develop rapidly in all aspects, be it military, economic, cultural or otherwise.
The U.S. once supported Japan in this way, but when Japan developed into a threat, the U.S. switched to suppressing and discrediting Japan and supporting South Korea. In the auto and semiconductor industries, for example, this support for South Korea to suppress Japan is very blatant.
As a small country, South Korea is more tolerable to the U.S. , and the U.S. chose South Korea for a number of reasons. The U.S. has many allies, but the choice of which country the U.S. supports for development is professionally calculated and considered .

Let's look at the situation in France, France still has its colonial system, and those countries that were once French colonies are still more or less under French control. (What does the CFA franc mean, I think smart people understand). France is the most complete military technology system in Europe , but France's military technology development is not optimistic.
If Turkey wants to become a world class military and technological power, he must have the support of all Islamic countries and any two of the four parties: the US, Europe, China and Russia. This means that Turkey becomes one of the world's poles, on the same level as Europe, the United States, Russia and China.
The current situation is that Turkey does not have the support of any of the European, American, Russian or Chinese parties.
Personally, I am more optimistic about the development of Bangladesh than Turkey. Bangladesh feels more peaceful and secure to the world, and is located in a good location, which is not a threat to any country in the world.
If you look at the agreements signed between the world and Bangladesh, especially the agreements signed with China, the willingness to support the development of Bangladesh is very obvious.
Bangladesh has coordinated well with the rest of the world, and this is a very wise act.
Bangladesh can buy advanced weapons from any party in Europe, America, China and Russia as long as the economy is well developed, and this kind of treatment is actually possessed by only very few countries in the world.
Of course if Bangladesh wants to develop technology, I personally suggest that it is best to choose one side to join. Only then will you get the complete support of one side. That's how the world works, you get what you pay for. South Korea, Japan gave up part of its sovereignty to the United States in exchange for the support of the United States.
It is impossible to get support through neutrality .
Unfortunately Bangladesh's geographical location dictates that it is not very valuable to stand in line. If India develops well in the future, then this value will increase accordingly.

 

[UKBengali]

Thank you for your comments .
The size of the external market is not enough to help Turkey become a military and technological power 。
Turkey's internal market is small, and the external market it has access to is also very small.
Every military power has a large internal market and a large external market 。

• The Soviet Union and the United States are classic examples

There are a lot of rich and poor countries buying their weapons and they use the world market to develop leading military technology 。
Let's take a look at the development of Russian weapons technology. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia's internal market has shrunk and the external market has also shrunk. Now in the international arms market, Russia's share varies between 20-35%, and in this situation, Russia's military technology is developing slowly .
We can also add up the military budgets of countries that are willing to buy and support Turkey and see how big that market is.
These countries that support Turkey also buy weapons from other countries at the same time, such as European, American, and Russian, not only because of the technology and quality of the weapons, but also because they have to buy them just to get political support.

There are only some countries within the Islamic world that will support Turkey, while in the non-Islamic world, there are very few willing to support Turkey.
We can take South Korea as an example. South Korea is most importantly supported by the United States, and this comprehensive support has allowed South Korea to develop rapidly in all aspects, be it military, economic, cultural or otherwise.
The U.S. once supported Japan in this way, but when Japan developed into a threat, the U.S. switched to suppressing and discrediting Japan and supporting South Korea. In the auto and semiconductor industries, for example, this support for South Korea to suppress Japan is very blatant.
As a small country, South Korea is more tolerable to the U.S. , and the U.S. chose South Korea for a number of reasons. The U.S. has many allies, but the choice of which country the U.S. supports for development is professionally calculated and considered .

Let's look at the situation in France, France still has its colonial system, and those countries that were once French colonies are still more or less under French control. (What does the CFA franc mean, I think smart people understand). France is the most complete military technology system in Europe , but France's military technology development is not optimistic.
If Turkey wants to become a world class military and technological power, he must have the support of all Islamic countries and any two of the four parties: the US, Europe, China and Russia. This means that Turkey becomes one of the world's poles, on the same level as Europe, the United States, Russia and China.
The current situation is that Turkey does not have the support of any of the European, American, Russian or Chinese parties.
Personally, I am more optimistic about the development of Bangladesh than Turkey. Bangladesh feels more peaceful and secure to the world, and is located in a good location, which is not a threat to any country in the world.
If you look at the agreements signed between the world and Bangladesh, especially the agreements signed with China, the willingness to support the development of Bangladesh is very obvious.
Bangladesh has coordinated well with the rest of the world, and this is a very wise act.
Bangladesh can buy advanced weapons from any party in Europe, America, China and Russia as long as the economy is well developed, and this kind of treatment is actually possessed by only very few countries in the world.
Of course if Bangladesh wants to develop technology, I personally suggest that it is best to choose one side to join. Only then will you get the complete support of one side. That's how the world works, you get what you pay for. South Korea, Japan gave up part of its sovereignty to the United States in exchange for the support of the United States.
It is impossible to get support through neutrality .
Unfortunately Bangladesh's geographical location dictates that it is not very valuable to stand in line. If India develops well in the future, then this value will increase accordingly.

Let me be clear.

Turkey cannot get to the level of the US now or China in the future as like you say its internal martket is not big enough for one. The external market will get larger over time as large developing countries like BD,Pakistan and Indonesia get richer progressively.



I did say that countries like BD should buy if Turkish weapons reach "good enough" levels and so Turkey could still sell weapons that are a little less better than what can be offered by US or China.

You do not always buy weapons based on the best performance but also supplier reliability.

As for Turkey's internal market, at what level of population do you need to get to be able to develop weapons at near comparable levels of say the US?

Russia is not a good example as it is not anywhere near as rich and does not have a comprehensive civilian tech like the US or even as China does now.

A developed Turkey of 100 million people(compared to 67 million in France) in 2050 may just be large enough to develop "good enough" weapons both for itself and countries like Pakistan and BD.

 

[TOTUU]

Let me be clear.

Excellent reply, by 2050 I believe Bangladesh will also have a good military industry. 30 years is long enough and there will be endless possibilities. Bangladesh's economic trends are very similar to China's, with a steady growth rate 。

The jitter in the growth curve is very small and the curve has a very smooth and steep trend 。

 

[UKBengali]

Excellent reply, by 2050 I believe Bangladesh will also have a good military industry. 30 years is long enough and there will be endless possibilities. Bangladesh's economic trends are very similar to China's, with a steady growth rate 。View attachment 734163
View attachment 734164

The jitter in the growth curve is very small and the curve has a very smooth and steep trend 。

Thank you for your kind comments about BD.


I think that unless something goes really wrong, then BD can become a "middle-income" country by 2035-2040 but it is far too early to talk about developed status right now.


As for military industry by 2050, yes it can probably make decent subsystems like small missiles, simpler radars, electronics etc if a proper and well thought out long term plan is in place that successive governments all support.
Complete complex systems like major warships, fighter planes and tanks would not be likely if they were to be in any way competitive, in other words more than for nationalistic show.

What I think is likely to happen is that countries like Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia and BD may start to collaborate on major projects with Turkey taking a lead on them. Indonesia will initially be 2nd place partner but I see them over time catching up to Turkish tech levels.
This way you can kind of have these four countries create the economies of scale over many decades to build very good weapons systems that meets their needs.

Yes it relies on a lot of goodwill between them but apart from BD and Pakistan right now,which is temporary as there is no intrinsic ill-feeling between the people of the two countries, all the countries have very good relations with each other and they can all jointly benefit by collaborating on major defence projects.

Both BD and particulary Pakistan will still have close defence ties with China, but there will also be this other axis to diversify their defence needs.