Bangladesh is getting closer to Eurofighter Typhoon

[Jobless Jack]

He still wont get it.... but exactly spot on. I doubt the BAF would go for ETF. Would be a very illogical purchase. If a deal is signed today, with training, setting up the infrastructure alone just for the jets, by the time the first jets arrive is 7-10 years out at a minimum. That is not even including purchasing AWACS/Ground radars, formulating tactics, etc... By then 5th generation fighters would be the norm.

Youd be better off purchasing the Russian T-50 or Chinese J31 in larger numbers.

BAF could be keeping its options open in order to leverage a purchase from China or Russia. In that case it is a good idea to show that your negotiating and have options to get a better deal from the Chinese.

Exactly

and defense co-op with UK can easily mean components and training as well. no necessarily purchase of MRCA

BAF has been playing with chinese and russian planes. true its mostly 3rd gen + the 4th gen 8 migs. But all BAF tactics are still developed in a way that will allow the optimal use of Chinese or russian MRCA. if EFT is purchased it will be in small numbers . as developing optimal tactics for EFT will take 5-7 years and repeated exercise. So even if BAF buys EFT today, it will be small in number and a good 5-10 years before BAF orders another 36-48 EFT.

J10 will be the main workhorse of BAF as BAF has been using chinese jets since 1980's and its just hardware upgrades. only small tactical tweaks are necessary to get immediate bang for buck from the J10 compared to EFT.

So expect a small numbers of EFT and a massive number of J10 orders from BAF this decade.

 

[UKBengali]

Yes... but battles are rarely decided on Electronics alone. it completely depends on the situation where the EFT faces the JF17.

i give example . Suppose the EFT face the JF17 in Burmese sky where there is also burmese SAM is active. EF will be shot down. or its impact will be minimal that it wont affect the outcome of the battle.

It all depends on the tactics and battle conditions under which these EFT will be used. you are assuming that no external factors will effect a dog fight . It is not so.

This is why this purchase of EFT is important. so that BAF can formulate tactics to use 4.5 gen planes in optimum condition. No point buying 36-48 EFT without first developing the strategy and tactics that will benefit the BAF and compliment the EFT abilities. therefore this small paltry purchase of 16 EFT.

And yes , without early warning system, there is no point to EFT. If you want the most out of the beast called EFT, you need early warning system.

Dude, I am comparing the EFT and JF-17 one on one just as fighter aircraft and not taking anything else into account.

Anyway the whole discussion started about the possibility of Myanmar getting hold of JF-17 Block 3 and they are not the type to build up sophisticated support platforms for their fighters like AEW aircraft.

Please read the history properly and come back.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

I must say it is weird that BD doesn't purchase military arms from india considering they are such big allies.

BD rarely purchases defence military items. And the budget is quite low to buy from India. Not that India had a huge repository of items to sell previously. But in the last 5 years or so, many previous projects have matured which has given India the confidence to try to sell it to export market. With BD economy growing, her budget will also increase. You can't blame us for trying. If it's an open tender, let it compete.

No one cares about your silly propaganda , your guys SUPA POWA propaganda got you surrounded by Chinese influence so good luck with that.

The dam reason we didn't get new fighters was due to leadership any the Royhinga crisis that India supported Myanmar for.

We don't need India as friend since they backstab us


All you guys can do is bring up 1971 but that's the past , past India ain't the same

Lol. And China gave weapons to Burma to kill those Rohingyas and most importantly is doing an project in Rohingyas dominated land responsible for their displacement in the first place. This post just proves my point off inferiority complex.ridden Islamist populating PDF.

You can't be hindutva extremists, spread hindutva poison on social media against Indian Muslims day in day out and not expect countries like Bangladesh not to take notice

The communal shithole that is India has woken all south Asia up regarding the threat from a hindutva extremist India


Why do you think you can attack Indian Muslims day in day out, take their rights, lynch them for eating meat, make laws targeting them, attack mosques and other Muslims like Bangladeshi won't start seeing you as a threat?

Pakistan by definition and by law in itself is a communal shit hole. Go preach where the Sun doesn't shine.

 

[KaiserX]

BD rarely purchases defence military items. And the budget is quite low to buy from India. Not that India had a huge repository of items to sell previously. But in the last 5 years or so, many previous projects have matured which has given India the confidence to try to sell it to export market. With BD economy growing, her budget will also increase. You can't blame us for trying. If it's an open tender, let it compete.

Lol. And China gave weapons to Burma to kill those Rohingyas and most importantly is doing an project in Rohingyas dominated land responsible for their displacement in the first place. This post just proves my point off inferiority complex.ridden Islamist populating PDF.


Pakistan by definition and by law in itself is a communal shit hole. Go preach where the Sun doesn't shine.

BD budget low to buy your weapons? even nations with a high budget wont go anywhere near indian made weapons. Your DHRUV helis have been a failure, even equador is asking for a refund, since these helis tend to go down and not up... must be indian vedic engineering. Your made in India SU30s are actually kits from Russia, but then itself have major major quality issues.

Your LCA has been in development for 50 years yet no order. Even if your weapons were for 1 cent a piece not even somalia would want to go near them.

Since indian made weapons are of so high quality and so expensive... please tell me 1 indian made weapon which was exported and proven capable in combat? Just 1... ill make it easier for you and give you a few weapons that PAKISTAN exported and were proven quiet capable in combat

- JF-17s exported to Myanmar and Nigeria. Proven in combat via afghan border conflicts, shooting down iranian UCAVs, shooting down Indian jets.

- Talha APC, proven in combat via multiple battles along the afghan border as well as in Iraq itself, exported to Iraq

- Mushak/Super mushak, proven pilet trainer, exported to many GCC countries ie KSA, UAE, Kuwait as well as Turkey

- ANZA SAM manpad systems, exported to KSA, Malaysia. Proven in conflict via kargil war were it shot down 2 indian jets and 1 indian MI-17 helicopter

- Baktar Shikan Anti tank missile, exported to Bosnia, malaysia, KSA, Bangladesh and Turkey. Proven in combat during the bosnian conflict and the most recent syrian war where it easily took out many T-72s and even a few T-90 tanks all on video.

- Pakistan UAVs/Satura exported to the US since the 90s and has been used extensively along the mexican border

-Pakistani made G3s/Ammunition exported to europe/US for many decades now. Infact pakistani made ammunition is quiet popular in the US and for gun enthusiast due to their quality compared to Chinese/Russian/American made munition

Now please Bhangee India with all its engineers, technical expertise, and quality expensive weapons being 10 times Pakistan in size can you please tell me 1 combat proven weapon which was exported???

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Why not negotiate with the South Koreans?

The BAF can try becoming the launch customer of the KF-21 / KFX.

Yes, the current version is 4.5-gen, but KAI will evolve the design into a FGFA. You should be able to carryover the majority of the support base between the two variants.

Start with 16 KF-21s, but add another 64 in batches through the long-term.

 

[UKBengali]

Why not negotiate with the South Koreans?

The BAF can try becoming the launch customer of the KF-21 / KFX.

Yes, the current version is 4.5-gen, but KAI will evolve the design into a FGFA. You should be able to carryover the majority of the support base between the two variants.

Start with 16 KF-21s, but add another 64 in batches through the long-term.

I have already stated my reservations in terms of foreign components like engines and US influence over S Korea but the other issue is that this is a medium-weight fighter.

A realistic 5th gen option for BD, apart from Chinese J-35, is the Turkish TF-X and that is a heavyweight fighter and far more suited to act as a air-supremacy platform to deter India.

BD due to the fact that it will always be heavily outnumbered by IAF needs to go for fighters with a "heavy punch" and this plane just is not it.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I have already stated my reservations in terms of foreign components like engines and US influence over S Korea but the other issue is that this is a medium-weight fighter.

A realistic 5th gen option for BD, apart from Chinese J-35, is the Turkish TF-X and that is a heavyweight fighter and far more suited to act as a air-supremacy platform to deter India.

BD due to the fact that it will always be heavily outnumbered by IAF needs to go for fighters with a "heavy punch" and this plane just is not it.

IMO the issue re: US influence depends a lot on the country in question.

Pakistan is a prickly country that shouldn't have gotten nukes, but it did anyways.

Bangladesh is a world darling.

Your foreign policymakers should see that Bangladesh has the leverage with regards to the US' movement in South Asia, not the other way around. So, India shouldn't do anything to threaten you and, in turn, there's no reason for your to use your military.

That said, you reserve the right to build a strong military, and the US has no reason to stop you (because you are among the 'good guys'). I honestly don't think the US would block the transfer of US components via the KF-21 to the BAF. You will have the world behind you (from a perceptual standpoint) and practical military capability.

As for the question of a heavyweight fighter. It works out if you (a) need it for a specific role (in which case you still need a lighter complementary jet) or (b) acquire them in enough numbers. The TFX is a heavyweight, and it's going to cost money. IMO even if Pakistan were to sign onto the TFX, it'll likely be to serve a niche role such as strike and maritime ops, not a go-to general purpose fighter.

The KF-21 sits between an F-16/J-10-type medium-weight and the TFX/J-20 heavyweight class. It's more of a new-gen Hornet, and those fighters are designed for single-type fleets. In other words, it should do enough (in terms of range, payload, technology, etc) to support your requirements.

In practical terms, I don't think the KF-21 would be any less effective in air superiority than the TFX. And you will also benefit from Korea's own air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions technology, which gives you a readily available alternative to US and European gear.

Finally, the Koreans look like a good partner for offsets. This is another fully industrialized country with a growing liquidity base that (like Japan) will likely translate into very low-cost loans. So, if BD's macros are good, it shouldn't have trouble with securing a loan for the KF-21. On top of that, it can tie the purchase to Korean investment in BD. You could plausibly get at least 1/3 of the contract value back into BD's economy.

 

[spectregunship]

Why not negotiate with the South Koreans?

The BAF can try becoming the launch customer of the KF-21 / KFX.

Yes, the current version is 4.5-gen, but KAI will evolve the design into a FGFA. You should be able to carryover the majority of the support base between the two variants.

Start with 16 KF-21s, but add another 64 in batches through the long-term.

It is surely the ideal option. But would it not be wrong to assume that the first aircraft they might receive may well enter into 2030s?

On the other hand, a 4.5 Gen fighter already serving around the world would come in sooner?

 

[KaiserX]

It is surely the ideal option. But would it not be wrong to assume that the first aircraft they might receive may well enter into 2030s?

On the other hand, a 4.5 Gen fighter already serving around the world would come in sooner?

Not necessarily... buying fighters are not like buying candy at the store... negotiating deals are tough and itself takes years, then production, testing, training, setting up the infrastructure (Bases, storage, weapon complexes, training ground crews)... plus we know how things work in Europe...even if a deal is signed today 5 years is very optimistic.

 

[UKBengali]

IMO the issue re: US influence depends a lot on the country in question.

Pakistan is a prickly country that shouldn't have gotten nukes, but it did anyways.

Bangladesh is a world darling.

Your foreign policymakers should see that Bangladesh has the leverage with regards to the US' movement in South Asia, not the other way around. So, India shouldn't do anything to threaten you and, in turn, there's no reason for your to use your military.

That said, you reserve the right to build a strong military, and the US has no reason to stop you (because you are among the 'good guys'). I honestly don't think the US would block the transfer of US components via the KF-21 to the BAF. You will have the world behind you (from a perceptual standpoint) and practical military capability.

As for the question of a heavyweight fighter. It works out if you (a) need it for a specific role (in which case you still need a lighter complementary jet) or (b) acquire them in enough numbers. The TFX is a heavyweight, and it's going to cost money. IMO even if Pakistan were to sign onto the TFX, it'll likely be to serve a niche role such as strike and maritime ops, not a go-to general purpose fighter.

The KF-21 sits between an F-16/J-10-type medium-weight and the TFX/J-20 heavyweight class. It's more of a new-gen Hornet, and those fighters are designed for single-type fleets. In other words, it should do enough (in terms of range, payload, technology, etc) to support your requirements.

In practical terms, I don't think the KF-21 would be any less effective in air superiority than the TFX. And you will also benefit from Korea's own air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions technology, which gives you a readily available alternative to US and European gear.

Finally, the Koreans look like a good partner for offsets. This is another fully industrialized country with a growing liquidity base that (like Japan) will likely translate into very low-cost loans. So, if BD's macros are good, it shouldn't have trouble with securing a loan for the KF-21. On top of that, it can tie the purchase to Korean investment in BD. You could plausibly get at least 1/3 of the contract value back into BD's economy.

Yes but you are missing a few critical bits of the equation here.

BD would be best to end up with two 5th gen fighters in the 2030s that are suitable for both India and Myanmar - TF-X for Myanmar and J-35/TF-X for India.

TF-X can act as the "heavy fighter" while J-35 can act as the "medium fighter". Also remember in any concieveable war with India, BAF may need urgent supplies and you cannot really depend on S Korea to make any attempt to resupply BD. Turkey may try and fail but the Chinese if they wanted to will just get what is required into BD.

These planes will be flying till the 2060s and so basing your purchases on the situation right now is not a good idea. The geopolitical situation may change say by 2050s when BD falls out with say the US and then what? BD cannot bank on having good relations with the US/West in 2050, even if this may seem unlikely right now.

Lastly, the other important point is who out of S Korea and Turkey is likely to have enough money and will to truly build up an independent aerospace industry over the next 2-3 decades?

Turkey is a much larger population wise country at 84 million people, with S Korea at 52 million. Also, Turkey spends around 3% GDP on defence compared to 2.5% for that of S Korea. Yes S Korea is a little richer than Turkey right now but over the coming decades this gap will progressively reduce.


Apart from the economic offsets you mentioned, there is no reason to consider the KF-X as being suitable for BD's needs.

 

[Yasser76]

Really all this depends on threat assesment. A major buy of EF by BD is a weapon looking for a threat rather then a threat needing a weapon.

I really cannot remember if BD and Myanmar every had a serious confrontation in the past and if India is not a threat, it does beg the question, why 16 high end fighters?

BD could easily make do with 12 single engined Gripen/F-16 types. Air policing and some strike capability.

More useful for BD (in my opinion) would be a fleet of say 60 Apaches and 40 odd Chinooks.

Apaches could patrol cost and border areas and Chinooks could land decent number of troops exactly where and when they are needed. Of course added bonus is that they are of immense value in disaster relief.

That would help BD defence much more then high end fighters

 

[Indos]

Yes but you are missing a few critical bits of the equation here.

BD would be best to end up with two 5th gen fighters in the 2030s that are suitable for both India and Myanmar - TF-X for Myanmar and J-35/TF-X for India.

TF-X can act as the "heavy fighter" while J-35 can act as the "medium fighter". Also remember in any concieveable war with India, BAF may need urgent supplies and you cannot really depend on S Korea to make any attempt to resupply BD. Turkey may try and fail but the Chinese if they wanted to will just get what is required into BD.

These planes will be flying till the 2060s and so basing your purchases on the situation right now is not a good idea. The geopolitical situation may change say by 2050s when BD falls out with say the US and then what? BD cannot bank on having good relations with the US/West in 2050, even if this may seem unlikely right now.

Lastly, the other important point is who out of S Korea and Turkey is likely to have enough money and will to truly build up an independent aerospace industry over the next 2-3 decades?

Turkey is a much larger population wise country at 84 million people, with S Korea at 52 million. Also, Turkey spends around 3% GDP on defence compared to 2.5% for that of S Korea. Yes S Korea is a little richer than Turkey right now but over the coming decades this gap will progressively reduce.


Apart from the economic offsets you mentioned, there is no reason to consider the KF-X as being suitable for BD's needs.

Here is the targeted market of KF 21 that include Malaysia, Qatar, an Arab country (I cannot identify), and Philippine. See the flags of various nations on the plane

 

[hussain0216]

Dude, I am going to go easy on you as you genuinely believe that post you just wrote.

UK is the only Tier 1 partner on the F-35 stealth fighter and the primary developer is Lockheed Martin with Northrop Grumman and BAe(UK) as the two primary contractors.

UK builds the F-35s entire electronic warfare system and that gives you an idea how capable the UK is in military electronics tech.

I know you want to big up the JF-17 Block 3 as Pakistan will be relying on this to keep India at bay but the latest EFTs will eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Your problem isn't necessarily one EFT v one JF17 block 3

It's if Myanmar (doubtful) utilises the JF17 in the same way Pakistan does


The JF17 is equipped with a
PL15 and SD10 BVR missiles, range of PL15 especially outstrips the meteor

Block 3 is aesa equipped

And ask yourself what missile or armament is missing from JF17 inventory, everything from anti ship missiles to BVRs are present

Now this is where it gets interesting

For the same cost of 16 eurofighters


You can get maybe 3 times as many JF17s block 3s, maybe more



Do you understand what the implications of this are

Now it's questionable whether Myanmar can actually afford this


BUT

If it can then think about it

 

[leonblack08]

Really all this depends on threat assesment. A major buy of EF by BD is a weapon looking for a threat rather then a threat needing a weapon.

I really cannot remember if BD and Myanmar every had a serious confrontation in the past and if India is not a threat, it does beg the question, why 16 high end fighters?

BD could easily make do with 12 single engined Gripen/F-16 types. Air policing and some strike capability.

More useful for BD (in my opinion) would be a fleet of say 60 Apaches and 40 odd Chinooks.

Apaches could patrol cost and border areas and Chinooks could land decent number of troops exactly where and when they are needed. Of course added bonus is that they are of immense value in disaster relief.

That would help BD defence much more then high end fighters

I don't think you understand the geopolitical situation in Bangladesh's neighborhood at all.

On one side we have an increasingly hegemonistic India, fuelled by their Hindutva ideology. We already have their politicians calling Bangladeshis names publicly and considering us as threats.

On the other hand, we have a genocidal military Junta, who have been testing our patience since the 90s. We had several confrontations with Myanmar since the 90s. The reason you can't remember there was ever a serious confrontation between the two doesn't mean there was none. From small-scale border skirmishes to naval stand-offs over disputed territory. The reason Bangladesh was successful in resolving those issues diplomatically, was because Bangladesh had been on par with Myanmar till 2010. But in 2017, Myanmar caught Bangladesh napping with defence, especially the air force. There is a significant power gap now, especially because of their investment in the air force with Migs, Sukhois and JFTs. And they took full advantage of that. They were successful in pushing 1 million refugees in our territory which is a significant burden on our economy and security risk. They knew all well we were ill-equipped to go to war with them and will be forced to accept refugees.

Bangladesh does not need to "go looking for a threat". It is already there. There is a reason Bangladesh has been increasing military expenditure in sync with GDP growth. We need a strong military to maintain the status quo and protect our economy. Bangladesh does not need to be an aggressor, but we certainly do need deterrence from external aggressors.

Ideally, Gripens in larger quantity (32 Gripens as opposed to 16 EFT or Rafale) should be the best choice for BAF. But, the top brass has conducted their assessment and has decided to go for the twin-engine platform in small quantity. Hence the connection to EFT. The reputation of EFT alone is sufficient to keep the Burmese misadventures at bay. Not to mention the Western connections it will bring and strengthen Bangladesh on diplomatic negotiations. EFT is a strategic investment, rather than a tactical one.

Having a toothless airforce with only Helos is completely unrealistic and will lead to Bangladesh's downfall. Weak are bullied everywhere.

 

[Buddhistforlife]

I don't think you understand the geopolitical situation in Bangladesh's neighborhood at all.

On one side we have an increasingly hegemonistic India, fuelled by their Hindutva ideology. We already have their politicians calling Bangladeshis names publicly and considering us as threats.

On the other hand, we have a genocidal military Junta, who have been testing our patience since the 90s. We had several confrontations with Myanmar since the 90s. The reason you can't remember there was ever a serious confrontation between the two doesn't mean there was none. From small-scale border skirmishes to naval stand-offs over disputed territory. The reason Bangladesh was successful in resolving those issues diplomatically, was because Bangladesh had been on par with Myanmar till 2010. But Myanmar caught Bangladesh napping with defence, especially the air force. There is a significant power gap and they took full advantage of that. They were successful in pushing 1 million refugees in our territory which is a significant burden on our economy and security risk. They knew all well we were ill-equipped to go to war with them and will be forced to accept refugees.

Bangladesh does not need to "go looking for a threat". It is already there. There is a reason Bangladesh has been increasing military expenditure in sync with GDP growth. We need a strong military to maintain the status quo and protect our economy. Bangladesh does not need to be an aggressor, but we certainly do need deterrence from external aggressors.

Ideally, Gripens in larger quantity (32 Gripens as opposed to 16 EFT or Rafale) should be the best choice for BAF. But, the top brass has conducted their assessment and has decided to go for the twin-engine platform in small quantity. Hence the connection to EFT. The reputation of EFT alone is sufficient to keep the Burmese misadventures at bay. Not to mention the Western connections it will bring and strengthen Bangladesh on diplomatic negotiations. EFT is a strategic investment, rather than a tactical one.

Having a toothless airforce with only Helos is completely unrealistic and will lead to Bangladesh's downfall. Weak are bullied everywhere.

Myanmar military junta is one of the stupidest military I have seen.

I don't know how will the Myanmar military tackle so many problems. First Myanmar had investments pouring in from foreign countries but the military coup changes everything and in future Myanmar economy will become much worse.

Moreover the entire citizen of Myanmar is against the army.

The ethnic armed forces also declared war against the Myanmar army

USA and European nations will put sanctions and might also initiate proxy war against Myanmar.

My question is Myanmar military is not so strong and big in terms of manpower to tackle attacks from different sides. They also have to worry about the economy of the country too. How will they survive?

@DalalErMaNodi @bluesky @Homo Sapiens