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Bangladesh - India Relationship: Challenges for Progressive Politics

Disruption and relevancy according to who Dada?

Like Marxists who have disrupted and run down Kolkata to the point where people are fleeing Kolkata for other places in India in droves, both for jobs and for quality of life?

Does Singur/Tata ring a bell?

Is that going to be our ideal in Bangladesh?

Obviously the leadership in Kolkata must not be very good Marxists if they don't care about people having three square meals a day, but in Bangladesh we do. You see - practical people in Bangladesh don't really care about lazy aantels from Kolkata spewing lofty theories. People in Bangladesh have already decided to dump those false theories by the wayside to choose what Taiwan, Korea and China already chose as far as export-led growth and development. Hollow theories don't feed empty stomachs.

লম্বা লম্বা বুলি কপচালেই তো আর হবেনা, পেটে কিছু দিতে হবে.

Try changing the calendar on your wall. This is 2017, not 2011.

That is why I said that you and your type live in the past. The Marxists are gone, and will never return. For the last six years, they have been out of power.

But sadly, the Bangladeshi disease has you in its grip just as it has millions of other Bangladeshis: you still live in the past, and think everyone else does.

Ask any of the thousands of Bangladeshis who flood into Calcutta, not as economic refugees, but as ordinary tourists, buying things, getting medical treatment, acquiring property through false identities and through front men, eating their fool heads off and generally enjoying freedom from the bigotry and narrow-mindedness of their own country.

Most Bangladeshis feel that their country is not inferior compared to India. They have largely seen India more or less.

That is precisely the problem. We wish they had seen India less. We don't really need Bangladeshi peasants to pretend to be Odiyas and other eastern peoples and to take our manual jobs away by quoting barely the subsistence level of wages. They have largely seen India more or less is literally true, and we wish they would return after seeing India.

And I don't realize who gave you the right to ask me to stop doing anything on this forum - given of course that I abide by forum rules.

Shutting down dissent smacks of another concept - totalitarianism. :-)

Heaven forbid that I should ask you or any other member to stop making fools of themselves.

Please continue.

Without your many-splendoured inputs, this would be a dull place.
 
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Joe is experiencing his Manmohan Singh and Advani moment.

You think partition happened just on our western flank?

Cheers, Doc

In fact what is surprising is that his kind in lieu would prefer Bangladeshi stock over Sanghi stock any any day.

If something is causing him to switch poles, then there is something hilsy!
 
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In fact what is surprising is that his kind in lieu would prefer Bangladeshi stock over Sanghi stock any any day.

If something is causing him to switch poles, then there is something hilsy!

The brutal truth is that we are seen as a big brother and disliked by every country around us.

It's just that they suck it up. But the hostility is unmistakable.

Pakistan of course is different. They love us and there is genuine warmth there.

Not being sarcastic ....

Truly.

Cheers, Doc
 
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The brutal truth is that we are seen as a big brother and disliked by every country around us.

It's just that they suck it up. But the hostility is unmistakable.

Pakistan of course is different. They love us and there is genuine warmth there.

Not being sarcastic ....

Truly.

Cheers, Doc

Do we care a jack about minnows?

That's what we have learnt filatey.
 
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Dada - if you believe your words are Vedic wisdom (Bed-bakya), then be deluded all you want.

We all live in our private hellholes of magnanimity (some more than others, as in your case) and be that as it may, the Kolkata 'aatel' mentality posits that everyone knows less than your kind. Not only do we in Bangladesh know it, the rest of India knows about this disease too, they talk about it all the time. It's a disease accorded to you by being lackeys of the British for some two hundred plus years. :-)

Some Kolkatans equate knowing tidbits of Latin or French history as higher education.

Time to let go of that mentality. Yes it is 2017. :-)

buying things, getting medical treatment, acquiring property through false identities and through front men, eating their fool heads off

Things are simply cheaper in Kolkata, who doesn't love a bargain? Don't equate it with ....

freedom from the bigotry and narrow-mindedness of their own country
Though? Eh?

That was a pretty fast and loose move of word association, n'est ce pas?

The two are totally different concepts. Bangladeshis don't want to live in an unproductive backwater like Kolkata. A backwater even by Indian standards. The references are legion in North Indian cultural discourse.

Just because someone buys a cheap Benarasi silk saree in Kolkata doesn't mean they are subscribing to your brand of 'aatel' wisdom or paying piligrimage up the highway to Santi Niketan.
 
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It is amusing to hear the Calcutta word 'Aatel' being used against Calcutta people. Good going; that is truly an ingenious co-opting.

Dada - if you believe your words are Vedic wisdom (Bed-bakya), then be deluded all you want.

Thank you so much, so kind of you. I breathe easier.

We all live in our private hellholes of magnanimity (some more than others, as in your case) and be that as it may, the Kolkata 'aatel' mentality posits that everyone knows less than your kind. Not only do we in Bangladesh know it, the rest of India knows about this disease too, they talk about it all the time. It's a disease accorded to you by being lackeys of the British for some two hundred plus years. :-)

Some Kolkatans equate knowing tidbits of Latin or French history as higher education.

Time to let go of that mentality. Yes it is 2017. :-)

Of course you have a different definition of higher education. And of course, when the time is ripe, you will share it with the rest of the world.

Things are simply cheaper in Kolkata, who doesn't love a bargain? Don't equate it with ....

Really? I found the exact opposite, on every visit to Dhaka; perhaps the other cities are far more expensive than Kolkata, therefore more expensive than Dhaka too. That is the only fact that could justify your analysis.

Though? Eh?

That was a pretty fast and loose move of word association, n'est ce pas?

Why do you think so? Bigotry and narrow-mindedness do go together, in many cases; in this specific case, it does.

The two are totally different concepts. Bangladeshis don't want to live in an unproductive backwater like Kolkata. A backwater even by Indian standards. The references are legion in North Indian cultural discourse.

Just because someone buys a cheap Benarasi silk saree in Kolkata doesn't mean they are subscribing to your brand of 'aatel' wisdom or paying piligrimage up the highway to Santi Niketan.

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the opposite is true. Who is to say, and how do we know that your assertions have any basis in fact?

After watching with awe and amazement the ornate, filigreed perfection of your scepticism, one basic question remains.

Why is it that Bangladeshis come to Kolkata, but Indians do not go to Dhaka for holidays?
 
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Of course you have a different definition of higher education. And of course, when the time is ripe, you will share it with the rest of the world.

In my mind what the entire subcontinent (not just Bangladesh) needs is vocational education at a massive scale, to put people to work, to be employed in value-added endeavors and export-led development such as garments, shoes, white goods, small electrics, kitchen appliances etc. You need money and food to fill stomachs Dada, not lofty theories or Santiniketan ideas.

There is a appropo saying in Bangladesh,

দুইদিনের বৈরাগী, ভাতেরে কয় অন্ন।

That's how people in Bangladesh describe impractical Kolkata Aatels.

Training people in classics and philosophy to waste time in useless 'adda' about social critiques, existentialism, moral discourse about Nietzsche, Schopenhauer et al and engaging in high-minded political meetings and processions is what Kolkata Aatels engage in and what brought Kolkata to the state it is in today.

I'd rather not have Bangladesh go down that route....but there's no point in arguing with you, you will find flimsy excuses to put down anything I say, as I have established in the last three or so posts, so let's agree to disagree. The haughty lack of will to accept dissent or alternate points of view, another totalitarian Stalinist trait of Kolkata Aatels.

Why is it that Bangladeshis come to Kolkata, but Indians do not go to Dhaka for holidays?

I don't know Dada, you tell me. I would think most Kolkatans would have a heart attack if they tried to patronize Dhaka restaurants. Any dinner for say six in a Dhaka restaurant of any repute will exceed Tk. 10,000 or so. How many Kolkata restaurants have that issue?

By the way - there are quite a few Kolkata entrepreneurs trying to operate restaurants in Dhaka, in view of the profitability of the restaurants.

Really? I found the exact opposite, on every visit to Dhaka; perhaps the other cities are far more expensive than Kolkata, therefore more expensive than Dhaka too. That is the only fact that could justify your analysis.

This is news to me - your claim that Kolkata is generally more expensive than Dhaka. I find this hard to believe - as most Bangladeshis I know who have visited, speak of how cheap it is to stay at hotels there (300 rupees a night for decent stay and about as much for a decent meal at a nice restaurant).

Maybe @Banglar Bir bhai can corroborate.

Compare this in Dhaka for yourself.....

https://www.facebook.com/pg/bistro.e.bd/menu/?ref=page_internal
 
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Dada,

The Marxists are gone, and will never return.

They havent gone anywhere- they have only changed names- they are called TMC now.

Regards
 
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In my mind what the entire subcontinent (not just Bangladesh) needs is vocational education at a massive scale, to put people to work, to be employed in value-added endeavors and export-led development such as garments, shoes, white goods, small electrics, kitchen appliances etc. You need money and food to fill stomachs Dada, not lofty theories or Santiniketan ideas.

Fascinating.

Some time ago, I came to the conclusion that it was useless training engineers, far less training MBAs, and started looking to train people to do jobs that were immediately available. Jobs where people did not have to impress HR staff with their knowledge of English and communications skills, but where they were judged by their ability to do good work within tight time schedules, and with credibility regarding delivery on time. As a result, my friends and I are using government money to train masons, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, beauty parlour technicians, serving staff for the food business, bakers, cooks and chefs, housekeeping staff for hospitality industry, and agricultural technicians.

Your knowledge of what is going on in India, for that matter, what is going on in West Bengal is paper-thin, but you are well-insulated by your belief that like Alexander Jowett, all that there is to know, you know it. Good luck on your intellectual journey; I know that you will feel blissful and unstressed by keeping reality at such a distance.

There is a appropo saying in Bangladesh,

Although my scope of knowledge seems to have been restricted to Latin and to Fren
ch, and to history studied in these languages over and above everything else, I beg leave to point out that you can speak about 'appropriate', or you can say, aping the French with everybody else, apropos of whatever it is that you want to say.

But we digress; we were to watch enthralled as words of rural Bangladeshi wisdom dropped like pearls from your lips.

দুইদিনের বৈরাগী, ভাতেরে কয় অন্ন।

Ah! Blissful!!

That's how people in Bangladesh describe impractical Kolkata Aatels.

Odd how the practical hard-headed people of Bangladesh, led by their practical, hard-headed intellectuals, seem to hang around and discuss Kolkata Aatels the whole day through.

Training people in classics and philosophy to waste time in useless 'adda' about social critiques, existentialism, moral discourse about Nietzsche, Schopenhauer et al and engaging in high-minded political meetings and processions is what Kolkata Aatels engage in and what brought Kolkata to the state it is in today.

I beg to differ. If we lose contact with these aspects of civilisation and of civilised discourse, we get jerks. If you want to know what a jerk is, look around.

I'd rather not have Bangladesh go down that route....but there's no point in arguing with you, you will find flimsy excuses to put down anything I say, as I have established in the last three or so posts, so let's agree to disagree. The haughty lack of will to accept dissent or alternate points of view, another totalitarian Stalinist trait of Kolkata Aatels.

Of course, you must be right. As distinct from your own amiable flexible intellect, as ready to participate in a defence forum and seek to cover your complexes under large gusts of hot air.

I don't know Dada, you tell me. I would think most Kolkatans would have a heart attack if they tried to patronize Dhaka restaurants. Any dinner for say six in a Dhaka restaurant of any repute will exceed Tk. 10,000 or so. How many Kolkata restaurants have that issue?

By the way - there are quite a few Kolkata entrepreneurs trying to operate restaurants in Dhaka, in view of the profitability of the restaurants.

This is news to me - your claim that Kolkata is generally more expensive than Dhaka. I find this hard to believe - as most Bangladeshis I know who have visited, speak of how cheap it is to stay at hotels there (300 rupees a night for decent stay and about as much for a decent meal at a nice restaurant).

Maybe @Banglar Bir bhai can corroborate.

Compare this in Dhaka for yourself.....

https://www.facebook.com/pg/bistro.e.bd/menu/?ref=page_internal

How wicked of those statisticians and pollsters who constantly put Dhaka at the bottom of the pile of desirable cities in which to live. The World Bank, no, wait, the International Court of Justice, no, wait, the UN Security Council, this just isn't getting anywhere, Nawaz Sharif, now how did his name crop up? OK, got it, Donald Trump should take some drastic action against people hiding the truth.
 
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As a result, my friends and I are using government money to train masons, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, beauty parlour technicians, serving staff for the food business, bakers, cooks and chefs, housekeeping staff for hospitality industry, and agricultural technicians.

Your knowledge of what is going on in India, for that matter, what is going on in West Bengal is paper-thin

Your efforts are commendable yet rather foolhardy. The work-averse culture that aatels have managed to create in West Bengal will hardly change in the next couple of decades at the very earliest, with heavy unionization and piss-poor public services administered by a Nanny state, which is always looking to the center for handouts who are incidentally, tired of the inefficiency and misery. My guess is it will take at least a couple of generations, if even that, if there is an 'intent' to change, which is not yet visible.

As an example - my Bangladeshi friends routinely joke about customs agents and airport workers at Kolkata airport routinely bumming cigarettes off of them. A manager at the airport - when asked, talked about Kolkata workers as lazy, unionized, over-educated, know-it-alls who are always looking for excuses to shirk work and goof off. They know everything, except being contributing members of society.

The point is Dada - culture of hard work is absent in Kolkata. In spite of decades of Marxism, West Bengal's contribution to decreasing income disparity by working with Micro-credit, by creating relatively well-paying jobs using export-oriented industries has been near zero AFAIK.

There are close to one hundred EPZ's being created in Bangladesh with diversified export jobs of all kinds, each EPZ will employ an average of 5000 people, each supporting a family of five or so. Where are these jobs in West Bengal? What exactly will fill people's stomachs? :-)

And don't talk about a few thousand back-office jobs in new town. It's a drop in the bucket.

Trying to impart job training is noble. Unfortunately those efforts don't feed people.

Although my scope of knowledge seems to have been restricted to Latin and to Fren
ch, and to history studied in these languages over and above everything else, I beg leave to point out that you can speak about 'appropriate', or you can say, aping the French with everybody else, apropos of whatever it is that you want to say.

But we digress; we were to watch enthralled as words of rural Bangladeshi wisdom dropped like pearls from your lips.

Dada you can keep your pandering, self-importance and প্রচ্ছন্ন বিদ্রূপ to yourself. I could care less. French history and comparative Latin is useless to me. Unless you helped your fellow human in some manner, I am rather unimpressed. :-)

Odd how the practical hard-headed people of Bangladesh, led by their practical, hard-headed intellectuals, seem to hang around and discuss Kolkata Aatels the whole day through.

We don't. It's a rare subject of discussion on what not to do and what to avoid.

I beg to differ. If we lose contact with these aspects of civilisation and of civilised discourse, we get jerks. If you want to know what a jerk is, look around.

Civilized discourse does not fill stomachs for the common man/woman. Focus, dada - focus....

For jerks - there are instruments of law and order.

How wicked of those statisticians and pollsters who constantly put Dhaka at the bottom of the pile of desirable cities in which to live.

Petty bad-mouthing of Dhaka does not take away from the factual statements I have provided so far.

All cities going through rapid development face these temporary ills. We have seen these in Seoul, Taipei, Bangkok as well as Guangzhou.
 
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That moment when @Joe Shearer bashes Bangladeshis.

Shows where Bangladesh stands.

Right now Joe is doing a good job at showing the mirror to this BD fellow. Joe doesn't really bash them with it (don't think thats ever his nature), thats my job. I will get to it if I feel like...well after Joe is done and dusted with this convo that I find quite interesting.

I'll bring out the statistics and such later too. The one's that really hurt the BD-elite ego... like ILO worker productivity. Quite sad to see the dissonance between what that is and what this fellow Bilal is talking in reference to South Korea, China and Taiwan...I can even backtrack the equivalent numbers to account for export/GDP % stage.....still absolutely horrid for BD.

Thus it surprises no one else ...the sheer level of BD tourists yearly pilgrimage to India (mostly West Bengal I would imagine) for the most common and routine medical procedures namely....but it is a vital route for poor and middle class BD people to have basic trusted access to medical care...and they are thankful for it....no matter how much of their elite who have emigrated or fly to singapore for such feel humiliated by it because of the dada complex....and vent in places like this one in response. Reality can be quite cruel to those who prefer eternal dream fantasy for their country (and projecting other kinds of fantasies on those they dislike too). Why take cognizance of reality when you can simply wish and write away the problems like BD institutions quite notoriously do (leading to their abject ratings internationally)?
 
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Reasons for Medical tourism in Kolkata
Long waiting times:It takes a long time for procedures in Dhaka medical hospital
Lower costs:It is cheaper to do treatments in kolkata compared to the hospitals in Bangladesh.
 
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