Bangladesh - dawn of Islamism

[Centaur]

Then it shouldn't be a problem. If you're going to bash an Atheist verbally for bashing your religion verbally go ahead. You have my approval.

Atleast you are honest, thanks for that.

 

[Nilgiri]

A reference from internet:
[The Qur'an not only ordered the killing of those who embraced Islam and afterwards decided to renegade, but also commanded the followers to fight all nations until they either believe in it, pay the Jizya or face death]:

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  "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle nor acknowledge the religion of truth of the people of the Book (the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. Surat At-Tauba 9:29"
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  There are other Surats that specifically orders the killing of unfaithful people. So, BD becoming more Islamic means its people are becoming more fundamentalist as has been instructed 1500 years ago. Well, they are only following the instruction written in Holy Book. Why to criticize?
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  Only yesterday, an Ahmedia mosque was destroyed in Pakistan by the God-loving people there. We should praise all these acts and should also try to emulate these ourselves. BD Muslims are fearful of Qayamat and burning in Hell. So, they are proving their submission by doing only a few token acts of terrorism.

I believe from Quran, it says only if all other peaceful options are exhausted (like say negotiations + ransom + jizya over time etc), is the Islamic forces supposed to resort to fighting/killing those that do not submit (and even then only those that raise arms i.e armed men,...women children and those unarmed should be left to be...this also got misapplied back then sadly, but that is not Quran/Allah fault but rather human sin fault). It is similar to most other religions core doctrine....whole anthology of the Vedas mirrors it in Deva/asura struggle (and human parallels, some is even found in Manusmriti too) ....Judaism (and thus Christianity) have similar, just need to read most of Exodus (esp post-Moses). Middle East especially was never a pretty place if you wanted a core religion to survive theologically and also pragmatically (hence the clear excesses mentioned even in Exodus).

Now how you temper/apply it to a peaceful realm (and stabilised world more largely today) really should be obvious to mankind/society more inherently....I abhor those that both mis-quote (without context) and mis-apply esp without common sense/thinking. This issue affects both muslims and non muslims.

BTW @Centaur is jizya defined % wise anywhere? @Psychic @Desert Fox

 

[bluesky]

New article is to counter those ignorants and munafiqs who read Quran in native language and in English and jump to conclusion and start bashing Islam. First read the proper history and timeline of Quran then start argument.
There are tons of Islamic scholars who know how to counter peoples like you. Go and ask them .

Yes zionist products. And you guys also don't know what is actually jihad , you all are either victims by the brain washing machine or the part of them.

You are such a good reader, but you remained as superstitious as others. You are still beating about the bush. I specifically asked you to provide a Surat that specifically opposed the Surat I provided? If you cannot, you are changing our great religion by referring to something else. Jihadists are the best Muslim because they follow the book.

So in an indirect war Islam doesn't allow any violence.
Pen is against pen , so key board is against key board .
However if they cross limit then there should be blasphemy law, but no individuals can take any violent action.

Please, do not write your own Islamic laws that try to purify the religion to suit the modern day needs. Are you really too ashamed of the original laws? You are showing signs of a Munafiq. Please know that Munafiqs are to be more punished than a non-believer.

 

[Centaur]

I believe from Quran, it says only if all other peaceful options are exhausted (like say negotiations + ransom + jizya over time etc), is the Islamic forces supposed to resort to fighting/killing those that do not submit (and even then only those that raise arms i.e armed men,...women children and those unarmed should be left to be...this also got misapplied back then sadly, but that is not Quran/Allah fault but rather human sin fault). It is similar to most other religions core doctrine....whole anthology of the Vedas mirrors it in Deva/asura struggle (and human parallels, some is even found in Manusmriti too) ....Judaism (and thus Christianity) have similar, just need to read most of Exodus (esp post-Moses). Middle East especially was never a pretty place if you wanted a core religion to survive theologically and also pragmatically (hence the clear excesses mentioned even in Exodus).

Now how you temper/apply it to a peaceful realm (and stabilised world more largely today) really should be obvious to mankind/society more inherently....I abhor those that both mis-quote (without context) and mis-apply esp without common sense/thinking. This issue affects both muslims and non muslims.

BTW @Centaur is jizya defined % wise anywhere? @Psychic @Desert Fox

Thanks @Nilgiri , you got the right meaning of Quran, and @bluesky failed to understand it because they just don't want to understand it.
There are lots of over smart individuals in this world who love playing word game . I have some respect for him because of his balanced posting , but I am afraid it will be harmed in future if he try to be over smart and intentionally start basing Islam without provocation.
I wish he will also balance in this section .
However Quran and sunnah ( the life style of Muhammad (pbuh) and written form is hadith) are the primary source of Islam; Quran is the first source of Islamic law, lifestyle, and sunnah is the 2nd source, but both are primary source.

Ijma, Kiyas are the secondary sources. Although salafi ( sold version) /ahle hadeeths refuse Ijma and Kiyas .

And you can't learn or follow Islam from only Quran, but sunnah is also necessary to understand Islamic law.

Like Quran ordered to pray salat ( namaz ), fast in Siam, yet Quran didn't teach that how to pray salat or namaz, how to fast in Siam . We learn the rules of worship from sunnah.

What Muhammad (pbuh) did in his life, like prayer , judgment and many more, nothing is from his own but all were taught by jibreel ( Gabriel) with the direct order from Allah.
However if anyone reject entire sunnah then he/she is labeled as kafir. Some peoples follow limited hadith as Sahih like ibadis ( majority in Oman ) only accept bukhari and Muslim as authentic hadith and reject others.
Still they are not rejecting the entire sunnah scriptures , so every Muslim community must have to accept sunnah as primary source if Islamic law .
So many things you can't clearly find in Qu'ran sharif and that's why you need sunnah. And then if it's still not clear, then scholars will do ijma and Kiyas when necessary.
So Islamic fiqh can't be changed but it can change its style I can't explain it with my limited knowledge , but I will try finding some English writing for you as I only have Bengali articles that I read .
So ignoring this fact @bluesky type guys love to push words.
And I am not a mufti /scholar who will be able to answer everything to them .
Beside, religious argument is prohibited here, still @bluesky launched it by directly bashing Islam by his post. Shame on them!

BTW@Centaur is jizya defined % wise anywhere? @Psychic @Desert Fox

I will copy and paste the entire article, please it the entire article carefully.
Definition of jizyah, its rate and who has to pay it
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Jizyah is what is taken from the People of the Book – and from the mushrikeen, according to some scholars – every year, in return for their being allowed to settle in Muslim lands, and in return for protecting them against those who would commit aggression against them.

The word jizyah comes from the word jazaa’ (recompense). It is as if it is a recompense for us allowing them to live in our land and for us protecting their lives, property and dependents.

See: Tawdeeh al-Ahkaam min Buloogh al-Maraam by al-‘Allaamah ‘Abdullah al-Bassaam (3/437); Lisaan al-‘Arab (14/146); Tahdheeb al-Asma’ wa’l-Lughaat by an-Nawawi (3/51); al-Mawsoo‘ah al-Kuwaitiyyah (15/149).

The fuqaha’ are unanimously agreed that jizyah may be accepted from the People of the Book, and from the Magians (Zoroastrians).

However, they differed concerning mushrikeen (polytheists) and idol worshippers, and also differed concerning the categories of People of the Book and Zoroastrians from whom jizyah may be accepted.

The majority of Shaafa‘i and Hanbali fuqaha’ are of the view that it cannot be accepted from mushrikeen at all; nothing can be accepted from them except their becoming Muslim or being fought.

The Hanafis and some of the Maalikis said: Jizyah may be accepted from the mushrikeen, except the mushrikeen among the Arabs.

Al-Awzaa‘i – whose view is more likely to be correct according to the Maaliki scholars – said: It may be accepted from all the disbelievers, including the mushrikeen and idol worshippers, whether they are Arabs or non-Arabs, and whether they are Qurashis or non-Qurashis.

This view is more likely to be correct. The evidence for that is the hadith of Buraydah that was narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh (1731): When the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) appointed commanders for an army or expedition, he would advise them personally to fear Allah, may He be exalted, and to be good to those of the Muslims who were under their command. Then he said: “Fight in the name of Allah… When you meet your enemy among the polytheists, offer them three options, and whichever one they choose, accept it from them and refrain from (fighting) them. Invite them to Islam and if they respond, then accept it from them and refrain from (fighting) them. Then invite them to migrate from their land to the land of the Muhaajireen (Madinah), and tell them that if they do that, they will have the same rights and duties as the muhaajiroon have. If they refuse to leave, then tell them that they are like the Muslim Bedouin and subject to the same rulings as the believers, but they will have no share of the booty and spoils, unless they strive in jihad alongside the Muslims. If they refuse, then ask them to pay jizyah. If they respond, then accept it from them and refrain from (fighting) them….”

The evidence here is that he said “your enemy among the polytheists” and this is in general terms.

That is also indicated by the fact that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) accepted jizyah from the Magians (Zoroastrians) of Hajar, as it says in Saheeh al-Bukhaari (3157), even though they were not People of the Book.

This indicates that it may be taken from any disbeliever, and the meaning indicates that, because if it is permissible to take it from People of the Book and from the Zoroastrians, then others are like them, because the purpose is to allow the disbeliever to continue following his religion within a particular framework, and that is applicable to all disbelievers.

Based on that, if one of the polytheists asks us to accept the jizyah from him and allow him to continue to follow his religion, and we see that there is a purpose to be served by that, then we may do that.

This is the view favoured by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him). Ash-Sharh al-Mumti‘ (8/58)

For more information, please see: al-Mawsoo‘ah al-Kuwaitiyyah (15/166)

With regard to the rate of jizyah, the fuqaha’ differed concerning the exact rate, and there are several views.

The first view: is that the wealthy man should pay forty-eight dirhams per year, the man of moderate means should pay twenty-four dirhams, and the poor man who is able to work should pay twelve dirhams.

This is the view of Abu Haneefah, and of Ahmad according to one report.

The second view: Maalik said that people who use gold as currency should pay four dinars and people who use silver as currency should pay forty dirhams, and there is no differentiation in that regard between rich and poor.

The third view: ash-Shaafa‘i said: The minimum rate of jizyah is one pure gold dinar, and there is no maximum limit. There is no differentiation between rich and poor.

Perhaps the most likely to be correct is the view that concerning the jizyah, it should be decided by the ruler, who may increase it or decrease it according to the ability of ahl adh-dhimmah to pay it, and according to what he sees fit. This was narrated from Imam Ahmad.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Imam Ahmad did not give a set amount for the jizyah, according to the more sound of the two reports narrated from him.

End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (35/350)

See also: Ahkaam Ahl adh-Dhimmah by Ibn al-Qayyim (1/123-128)

Jizyah is only to be accepted from adult men who are able to work.

Jizyah is not taken from boys who have not yet reached the age of puberty, or women, or from the insane. There is no difference of scholarly opinion on this point.

It is also not taken from very old men, the blind or the chronically sick.

And it is not taken from the poor who are unable to pay it.

For more information, please see: al-Mughni(13/216-221) and al-Mawsoo‘ah al-Kuwaitiyyah(15/149 ff)

And Allah knows Best.
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@Nilgiri

 

[bluesky]

Thanks @Nilgiri , you got the right meaning of Quran, and @bluesky failed to understand it because they just don't want to understand it.

A Surat does not need an explanation because the meaning is clear and direct. But, you gave your own explanation. It is against the law of a religion. With an explanation of yourself you are creating another religion. No doubt, you and @Nilgiri will be sharing the same Hell side by side. Prepare yourself for that day.

 

[The Eagle]

Thread closed due to religious debate/references & quoting leading nowhere but misinterpretation.

Regards,